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12 May 2016 11:27:20
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
How wrong I was about Roberto. I've supported him for months but have changed my opinion on him as of the last few days, kudos to those who called this a while back.
There are plenty of people who said he was not up to the job and I thought it was reactionary and premature, but you have been proved right, and I, wrong.
2 points
1. The players: I argued he had the players, that he was a great man manager, a great colleague, friend, arm round the shoulder. I fear he is far too gentle with them, they don't fear him, they don't respond to him, they don't seem to respect him, they won't play for him. They all know they are a 10 yard pass away from being proclaimed as 'phenomenal' footballers.
Whatever you say about footballers having too much power this is an example of a manager with no power.
2. The media: When the sun is out and the wind is in the Martinez mainsail it's all superlatives, press-box cappuccinos and smiles. When the going gets tough he reacts badly, dishonestly and inappropriately. He shows no insight into dreadful performances and it has alienated the fans and the media.
Finally
I have never called for a man to lose his job. I don't know what is happening in the dressing room, but I don't trust RM to hold onto players this summer. We need a change, sorry Roberto
To Fans
I urge fans to level no hate against RM, he is a man trying to do well for EFC, he is just failing, let's be fair to him. Call for change, we pay for that privilege, but let's remain classy about this.
Cheltonianblue
jakalakawaka.
02 Apr 2016 00:14:28
I've just finished watching rerun of the 4-4 in 2012 with United.
The goals, the football, sublime. I remember tuning into podcasts and Sunday sup at the time of 2010-2012 when moyes EFC was playing some excellent football and the pundits couldn't get enough, the adulation was incredible.
I'm sure we'd all agree, one can't imagine the DM coaching brigade teaching the players all that intricacy. Teaching pienaar and baines the 'underlap' as pat nevin likes to call it, or the fellaini-Cahill telepathy, or any
Of that happy science which vaulted us into the uefa cup .
My point is this, I think that we place too much emphasis on the manager. Especially to coach defences and attacks. Gary Neville was blue in the face on ssn telling us all how to defend zonally and pointing his plastic pseudopen at central midfielders not willing to track back. Yet he takes the reigns and his tactical noise is anathema, null and void.
Ultimately it's not about managers telling players what to do or how to play etc etc. We've created that because when things go wrong we need to blame something.
The facts are these: Barkley is a nervous footballer which doesn't bode well for an attacking midfielder craving possession. Besic drops his head once he thinks he's achieved small gains enough to mollify the manager. Barry has lost his drive, stones wants a new club, deulofeu is content. It's all in between the ears, it's about desire.
Mirallas and Lukaku are the only footballers we have who have unrelenting confidence in their own ability. These guys win you matches. Not managers, perhaps psychologists (although it's much easier if the psychology is instilled by family members/ youth coaches than at a later stage) at which point, it's too late (England 1967-now) .
Whoever talks or fears about Leicesters footballing ability to get them over the line. Everyone, pundits, bookies, journalists are pointing at their nerve. It's all upstairs, in the mind. And Roberto instills confidence, I hope he fumigated this confidence into youth level, it's arrogant chaps like Wayne Rooney who win you titles, but once the head goes, the feet soon follow.
Lecture over
Jakalakawaka
Cheltonian blue.
1.) 02 Apr 2016 09:15:28
Don't agree jakalakawaka. You have a point to a certain extent but for me the manager picks the team and makes all the decisions. Therefore the responsibility lies with him.
Martinez instills confidence?! Are you having a laugh? Our defense drop there heads because they haven't a clue how to defend. He instills our team conceding plenty of goals which I blame Martinez for mostly not the players.
Coleman, Baines and Jagielka at Everton a long time and had plenty of good seasons where they let in very few goals. Add in Howard and Distin. This was BEFORE Martinez came. Now three seasons after he's here our defense has fallen to sh*t. Namely Coleman, Baines and Jagielka at the moment.
14 Mar 2016 14:22:39
Well I am so pleased with the result yesterday, I am especially pleased for Martinez. Here is why.
1. He drops Stones, when he feels the young centre half is not prioritising defending he puts him on the bench. This takes courage and shows excellent man management to keep the lad content and hungry and what a find in F-M. Gives us the first gutsy EFC performance since 0-0 at City.
2. He maintains a positive approach. OK so this drives some fans and journalists to despair, however what he does not do is point fingers at players and drag everyone down. It is far easier to get angry, annoyed and hand out fines, punishments and laps than stick to your beliefs amongst adversity.
3. He wins the next two Wembley outings and we are in Europa League and have our first trophy in 20 years, judge him after that. It seems an easier (but still terribly difficult) task that with DM against Chelsea.
4. The obsession in the media that we are 'underperforming in the league', so what we are 5 places below 'where we should be'!, we have put together 2 excellent cup runs and if it isn't about striving for cup glory then what is it about, especially for clubs like ours. How much different do we get in terms of cash for 7th vs 12th.?
5. It seems that fans only wanted to see a strong and credible push for 4th spot, only that would avoid finger pointing and unrest. Even if we got it we couldn't guarantee RL/ JS would stay (see Suarez 2013) , and 4th spot still requires qualification as we know all too well.
6. We've got new investors, so let's have a bit of stability to go with that. Which manager do fans want? Mourinho, McClaren?, Allardyce,? Rodgers? . Moyes? Pearson? . Howe? Van Gaal, its no bed of roses out there so be careful what you wish for
Cheltonian Blue.
1.) 14 Mar 2016 15:40:11
Clubs like ours?! I agree with some of what you are saying and don't get me wrong I'd love it if we won a cup, but the league should be the priority and clubs like ours with the squad we have should be challenging for top four, especially the way this season has gone with the so called big four's monopoly seemingly coming to an end. Cup runs do not paper over the cracks of what has been a massively under whelming season in the league. Don't get me wrong credit where it is due he actually got it right on Saturday but he has got it wrong far too many times.
2.) 14 Mar 2016 16:02:28
Also Jak, some name that mate, where did that pop up from.
3.) 14 Mar 2016 17:57:11
At last there are pro-RM fans actually giving reasons instead of sniping at those who aren't happy with his managerial skills, at least it is giving us something to debate between each other. As pleased as I am with the result and a trip to Wembley, let's not get ahead of ourselves before the draw is even made! I'll attempt to address your points
1) He kept JS in the limelight for far too long when it was obvious to us all that he needed time on the sideline. For me, that's not good man management, he was too stubborn to make changes until he was backed into the corner and had to make the change.
2) His positive attitude is a good attribute to have and makes the man quite likeable. However, his ability to answer a question without actually making sense is what some fans and journo's dislike. The man gives Brendan Rodgers a run for his money with the BS count in interviews. On the point of discipline, there will always be members of the squad who act up at times and need sorting out. I hope that he is dealing with such things behind closed doors and I'm also happy that these things aren't being leaked from the locker rooms.
3) We are through to a semi-final and, as great as that is, we haven't won anything yet. Let's see the draw before we get swept away! But credit where it is due, he's done well to get us through. But judging him after winning our first trophy in 21 years would be silly, he's won this cup before but got his team relegated in the same month. How do you think Wigan fans judged him? A trophy is a step in the right direction obviously but that doesn't make him the best in the business does it?
4) There is no obsession, we are simply under performing in the league. Are you happy being 12th? Again? 5 places is worth a couple of quid and is the difference between finishing in the top or bottom half of the league. The latter would mean two bottom half finishes in succession, that is not good enough for a club like ours. Nil satis nisi optimum is ingrained in the clubs DNA after all.
5) Of course we wanted to see a push for 4th spot, every fan of every team want to be a part of the champions league gravy train. The squad we have, on their day, is more than capable of doing so. Plus, with the way the league has gone this season, there hasn't been a better chance to break into that elite group. And we've blown it, big time. That brings finger pointing and unrest and rightly so, the buck stops with the manager imo.
6) The new investor will not want us to be mid-table also rans and, eventually, will bring stability throughout all facets of the club. He didn't make his money by being kind and polite, somewhere inside him will be a ruthless streak, he's no doubt got the minerals to make the tough calls. RM is auditioning for his job right now and has the rest of the season to prove he is the man to move us forward. In regards to who we would like as replacement, I'm not so sure to be honest, a lot would be down to who is available. I think the right man would need experience of Europe to take us to the next level. Time will tell I suppose.
My final thought is that two semi-finals, one possible final, is papering over the cracks. We are a good cup team, our style is well suited to knock out games, but the league is of far more importance. If we don't improve the league form, finish 10th or below and win the cup, that would not be good enough for me.
4.) 14 Mar 2016 18:55:32
Good post that Jak, I agree with a lot mate, just wish we were consistent as its a roller coaster ride every Saturday, we just start to have faith in the guy then he kills that off with his decisions i.e. West Ham, its a hard one this and I wanted him out even if we won but yet again i'm swaying towards him, probably want him out again at the weekend.
I'm going with the flow and see what happens, one for sure though, Mr Moshiri won't be fooled and if RM isn't performing to his liking he will be gone, just look at the extra lengths/approach he went through when investing in us.
goo.gl/B8kc9t
Even though I may not have faith in RM, I have 100% faith in Mr Moshiri, we are about to embark on a new phase in our club.
5.) 14 Mar 2016 18:49:33
Great response spudv
I agree with you on the point of this season being a watershed one.
When the players are almost too good for us to hold on to, there is a small window when the player quality is slightly greater than the current stature of the club or what the club can afford to pay them . This season is that window I agree, and the key thing is that the players will not have the patience that is required to stay and cement next year.
I've no doubt that if they all stayed, with the TV money and a bit from the new investors we could strengthen. Forget fan patience, we ain't going anywhere, its the players that will jump ship.
If RM can persuade the players - with all that optimistic, glinty eyed bravado - to stay, then we owe him at least another season. RM's greatest asset might be his ability to keep together this squad.
{Ed025's Note - a couple of great posts there jak and spud, both with differing views but quality penmanship, its nice to see and very rare that people with a common goal can debate without getting tetchy or abusive, you do yourselves great credit and are an example to others...again well done..
6.) 14 Mar 2016 18:50:12
Love Everton, always will and I am more than happy and will look forward. Problem is because we reached wembley people starting to think rm has changed. The league is more important and always will be. It's papering over the cracks. He has proved he can win, so why has he chosen bad team management and tactics in league.
For me he needs a very strong finish and to win cup, then I think we see what happens afterwards.
{Ed025's Note - i have said before pb that i will sit back and enjoy the rest of the season before calling for heads to roll, im just going to roll with it mate and look forward to wembley and hopefully a trophy..
7.) 14 Mar 2016 19:55:42
Cheers ed and jaka, it's good to see things from a different perspective without histrionics! We all wants best for the club at the end of the day.
{Ed025's Note - thats right spud mate..
17 Feb 2016 10:51:32
I would lay off RM.
We are 6 points from 5th place.
We've fired in an unbelievable amount of goals this season.
We've amassed player assets of unprecedented proportions, which of course comes with the threat of poachers.
We are being eyed up by realistic investors.
We've reached a cup semi final, and are still in the FA cup.
We are leaky at the back and this needs addressing, we don't need a head on a plate in order to fix this.
Injuries to McCarthy and Jags have meant we are 4 places lower than we should be otherwise. If Leicester had been without Kante and Huth for as long they would not be top of the league.
Give him time, if its leakier next year I'd ask questions, agreed that this summer is the biggest EFC has faced in 20 years.
Cheltonian Blue
Jack.
1.) 17 Feb 2016 12:03:46
Great to see a positive post compared to the usual negativity on this site!
I find it hard to argue on any of the points raised, but regardless of whether someone agrees or disagrees with this, the positivity makes a great change!
2.) 17 Feb 2016 12:42:56
Not Martinez biggest fan but don't slate him either. Agree with the vast majority of above comments especially southern_toffee. That post was like a breath of fresh air.
3.) 17 Feb 2016 13:23:21
It is easy to be reactionary when results frustrate, imagine if we'd put away 4 of the 34 chances we had on Saturady, Everton would be above Liverpool and 8th in League 3 points behind MUFC who have spent 100s of millions on players.
Losing to Man City I thought was fair and they deserved it based on the 180 minutes. Kone is a worry and I think Kevin has more to give, but his signings a majority have been excellent. McCarthy, Barry, Robles, Deulofeu, Lukaku. Just a shame Kone was injured for so long. I'll concede that McGeady wasn't great but he was free and salary wasn't as bad as Falcao at Chelsea, and, incidentally, they're below us in the league.
4.) 17 Feb 2016 14:17:35
I totally get what your saying jakalakawaka. That name makes me dizzy when I look at it!
Some people can only see the bad. I had concerns when Martinez came here, mainly his last team being relegated. Them days of fighting against that I certainly don't want to be repeated.
I said I'd make better judgment on Martinez at the end of this season. Mainly because I wasn't convinced in his first season as anyone could see it wasn't his defence. Second season is hard to judge too.
To be honest I'm not convinced at all by Martinez and imo he won't last. Thing about that is I could be 100% wrong. Some people can't except that they could be wrong also. Mostly people calling for his head.
The only problem I have with him is conceding goals. If that was sorted we would be flying. Unfortunately there are some people who wouldn't like that and just want to see Martinez gone.
I don't care who brings success to this club and Everton have a history of sticking by their managers. We have to have the record for least amount of managers in premier league era. O wait, Arsenal prob have but I bet we are well up there.
I'm not backing or standing up for Martinez just trying to give a balanced and fair view of what he done at Everton.
You left out Alcaraz in his bad signings but overall he has done brilliant in recruiting players. There are plenty of people disagreeing with these posts but not many making a post.
Bet these are the same people who want Martinez gone even he does sort out the defence and win FA cup. I disagree with the theory we'll score more than you. Never seen it work yet.
I rather a tight defence and try and keep a clean sheet. Still I'd rather give Martinez a proper chance before he is let go. To be sure he's not the one to take us further.
5.) 17 Feb 2016 15:18:22
No doubt about it Martinez has quite a few good points and it is nice to be positive, however maybe you could explain the blind spots he has when it comes to sticking with Howard, Kone and Osman and ignoring Joel and Mirallas? It is great to be only six points behind sixth place but just look at the stupid points we have thrown away and for that I blame the lack of managerial skills, it's just happening too often.
I am being positive in that I have to believe that Martinez will learn from his mistakes and that Niasse will make a big difference and we will win most of the remaining games and get fifth place and also win the cup, just don't play Howard or Kone please!
6.) 17 Feb 2016 15:30:51
That's one way of looking at it I suppose mate. My main concern is the amount of goals we concede meaning we usually have to score 3 per game just to be in with a shout of points. His reluctance to practice set pieces, as he doesn't count them as goals, either defensively or attacking. His unbelievable substitutions when we are chasing a game. The rubbish he spouts in his interviews. The fact that, despite having the best squad we have assembled in the last decade or so, we have dropped from challenging the top four spots to mid table.
This maybe deemed negative but it is just my opinion. I said back in the summer that he should be given until xmas to show he can change but here we are a couple of months on from that and there is no real upsurge in our fortunes. We have stagnated in the last two seasons, how much time do you propose he should get? Winning the fa cup is not how he should be judged, we all know what happened the last time he won it. Our league position needs to be addressed and analysed before a decision is made. Personally, I think he is punching above his weight and change is needed but I know not everybody will agree.
7.) 17 Feb 2016 20:33:36
Totally agree with pretty much everything both of you say BlueMike75 and spudv. If you read my posts you'll see I share similar concerns to both of yours.
The only thing is who knows what the future will bring? I'm hoping more than anything that we somehow click and start competing better.
I've lost count of the amount of times I've said that I'm not saying it will happen. Basically just that it is possible. People were wrong about managers before.
Maybe, just maybe, we are all currently wrong about Martinez. Myself included, as I said above I think he won't last.
But I'm not naive enough to think its impossible for Everton to improve under our current manager. He wouldn't be the first manager to prove doubters wrong. Kendall and Ferguson are prime example of managers that weren't taken seriously at the beginning of their careers. Look how it turned out for them.
Hindsight, is wonderful. We are all very clever in hindsight. I'm not being smart, that's the way I see it.
8.) 17 Feb 2016 21:48:21
You lot have heard of the little Dutch Boy with his finger in the Dyke (no not that one) . NewsNow have the very very accurate summing up of Mr Martinez, I urge you to read it and deny it's accuracy.
9.) 17 Feb 2016 22:01:18
Maybe so NBTB, and I think we have had a similar discussion before now. I'm judging him as a premier league manager and not just his time with us. He didn't do too well with Wigan in the end, maybe a season or two when they overachieved. But, on the whole, he didn't really move that club forward. He has had one good season with us and a couple which have been not so good. I like his positivity but talk is cheap, putting it into practice is another thing. Attacking wise we look good but defensively we have regressed. Last season was poor with regards to our final position but we all thought europe took its toll. This year we have underachieved without having to travel to Russia on a Thursday night.
I'd rather we be more consistent in our final standings and stop this yo-yoing up and down the league. I think it will be time for a change come the summer but a lot will depend on getting the deal done for new owners. We will then have an idea of which direction the club is heading, with or without RM at the helm.
10.) 17 Feb 2016 22:56:04
DM NewsNow have about 50 different articles about Martinez. You'll have to be a bit more specific. Heading or something maybe?
11.) 17 Feb 2016 23:50:09
Hoping that RM will get it right is just blind faith. He has shown absolutely nothing to suggest that he will fix the defence. His comment on clean sheets recently backed that up. It was mentioned that we are loyal to our managers but is that a good thing? We have a large chunk of supporters who weren't even alive the last time we won something. Loyalty this time will cost us our better players and that, ultimately, takes you down rather than up.
12.) 18 Feb 2016 07:07:52
I cannot defend a manager who has one hell of a defensive lineup, yet we are all over the shop, who cannot make tactical subs, his like for like subs are baffling, take off a winger and put a winger on, take off a striker and replace with another striker. there's times when we have thrown wins away by not taking an attacking plater off and putting on a midfielder, same when losing and playing a team sat back, take a midfielder off and play an attacker, I will eat my hat if he doesn't bring Howard back for the cup game, all those who think he will get it right fair play, negative or not, I've given up on the guy.
25 Jan 2016 17:35:20
On Stones
Sell him. £60million
There are several phenomena playing out in the Premier League right now, Everton are demonstrating these more than any team.
1. Ball playing centre halves. A sure way to fool any team into paying over the odds for a decent defender. We should sell Stones for £60million. Teams do not rely on their 'Rolls Royce' at the back for success, they bag you a few emphatic goals, are easy on the eye and on occasion give away a easy penalties.
Funes Mori and Jagielka are perfectly acceptable and a small part of the Stones cash could reinforce the back line. Its rather like the old adage, 'what do you buy someone who has everything? ' The only thing that would excite Barcelona fans defensively speaking is to buy a maverick centre half a la Stonesy. Sell, sell, sell.
2. Wandering/ Revert to the mean. Everton coast quite often. When the game begins and it is nil-nil the team go through the motions. The players seems bereft of ideas and ping the ball around merrily until one of two things happen. A) They concede and decide to chase the game, often successfully then at 1-1 its back to the beginning. B) They score, lead, and then roll the ball around nonchalantly until they concede again (its why over 80% of games have one goal in them) . The Man City win was the only mentally strong performance I've seen, the players looked like they knew they had a lead and wanted to keep it.
3. The Ross Question. Two step forwards, two steps back for this frustrating player. Remember Norwich almost 3 years ago, the Swansea last minute free kick, the Newcastle RotRovers. Great moments but ultimately he still gives the ball away cheaply. For RB it is his temperament that sadly is his downfall, he tries hard but loses belief.
He cannot quite believe he should be that good. Those who watch him week in, week out know that he isn't all that, his goals have not been spectacular this season and he is guilty of crab-football. I want him to succeed and never shout/ jeer at his mistakes, but I do fear he will peter out into an average footballer. I hope I am wrong and that quirky journalism isn't writing 'football obituaries' about him from Accrington Stanley in 6 years time.
Back Ross, Sell Stones and let have a game plan.
Focus Everton
Jack.
{Ed025's Note - thats a good read jack, you need to post more often mate..
1.) 25 Jan 2016 21:06:21
We won't sell Stones for less than 50m but I think the only
way anyone would actually pay it is if there were 2 or 3 clubs desperate to get him, but as he is clearly not the finished article I doubt whether there are. Also I think he is listening too much to all the praise he has had in the last 12 months and thinks he can play his way out of every situation. Even the likes of Moore, Beckenbauer and Maldini knew you sometimes had to just put your foot through it and get it cleared.
2.) 25 Jan 2016 22:48:27
Great post Jaka.
jakalakawaka has no Rumour Replies
15 Mar 2016 02:43:12
This is not the same as the man city takeover, I think this is quite a unique takeover actually.
It's happened at a time when owning a PL club is at its most bankable and the risk is much less provided you stay in the PL.
I think the overly sentimental Kenwright finding his 'perfect' investor etc is genuinely quite positive as I know he's got the clubs best interests at heart.
How many other clubs can say they have a manager, a chairman and an owner who all are invested so strongly into improving the club and care so much about its long term future, it's no surprise that on average EFC holds onto its players longer than any other club. Fact.
14 Mar 2016 18:49:33
Great response spudv
I agree with you on the point of this season being a watershed one.
When the players are almost too good for us to hold on to, there is a small window when the player quality is slightly greater than the current stature of the club or what the club can afford to pay them . This season is that window I agree, and the key thing is that the players will not have the patience that is required to stay and cement next year.
I've no doubt that if they all stayed, with the TV money and a bit from the new investors we could strengthen. Forget fan patience, we ain't going anywhere, its the players that will jump ship.
If RM can persuade the players - with all that optimistic, glinty eyed bravado - to stay, then we owe him at least another season. RM's greatest asset might be his ability to keep together this squad.
{Ed025's Note - a couple of great posts there jak and spud, both with differing views but quality penmanship, its nice to see and very rare that people with a common goal can debate without getting tetchy or abusive, you do yourselves great credit and are an example to others...again well done..
17 Feb 2016 13:23:21
It is easy to be reactionary when results frustrate, imagine if we'd put away 4 of the 34 chances we had on Saturady, Everton would be above Liverpool and 8th in League 3 points behind MUFC who have spent 100s of millions on players.
Losing to Man City I thought was fair and they deserved it based on the 180 minutes. Kone is a worry and I think Kevin has more to give, but his signings a majority have been excellent. McCarthy, Barry, Robles, Deulofeu, Lukaku. Just a shame Kone was injured for so long. I'll concede that McGeady wasn't great but he was free and salary wasn't as bad as Falcao at Chelsea, and, incidentally, they're below us in the league.
17 Feb 2016 10:42:10
I agree Zack
When he laid out the 'facts' it was pretty damning.
League finishes at EFC pre RM were 5-8th over 5 season
League finishes at Wigan pre RM were above 16th for 3 seasons
League finishes at Wigan post RM were 16th and below, eventually relegation.
I honestly believe if we had been 10% more clinical in front of goal we'd be 5th.
07 Feb 2016 10:18:29
John stones' head has gone. He in his head thinks he will go backwards if he stays at Everton. I would be very surprised if he stays, I don't think he is leaving for money or to play with better players, he wants to go because enough people have told him he should go.
Chelsea won't have champions league, Liverpool is obviously a no, Spurs might get him although not sure Levy would stump up the cash, guardiola may fancy him but he likes centre halves to be dogged (puyol, pique, mascherano) . I think it's Manchester United and Jose that will turn his head, and they don't mind spending a few quid.
Stones to United, let him go, £55m and let's take stock.
Jack.