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31 Aug 2021 13:09:04
Nkoukou out on Loan it seems, beginning to get very confused here, feels like we are aiming to just have a starting 11 come the end of the window and nothing else. I really hope we put a recall clause in!


{Ed002's Note - What is a "recall clause"?}

1.) 31 Aug 2021 13:17:13
The kind where you can recall them if you get injuries - maybe the kind of clause that exists in champ manager only, I'm sure you are about to enlighten me either way🤣.

{Ed002's Note - That is not how it works. You can only recall players if the terms of the loan are not met.}

2.) 31 Aug 2021 13:24:11
My bad, I thought you could recall them in January if agreed in advance.

3.) 31 Aug 2021 13:26:31
Hi Ed, think I can shed some light on this one. In the game ‘Football Manager’ it allows you to loan players out to other teams and insert loan recall clauses in the agreement. That way during the same season you can effectively cancel the loan / recall the player and it does not effect you being able to loan them elsewhere in the same season.
…. Thanks his is all football manager of course!

4.) 31 Aug 2021 14:40:53
FIFA also, loan someone out. If you pay a small fee to the team you loaned them to, you can get him back. Its bloody brilliant. Loan out some players to rivaling clubs and then just get them back and bugger up their transfer window.

5.) 31 Aug 2021 15:38:42
Sky sports news has reported a player has been loaned "with a recall" clause.

{Ed002's Note - How could that player be registered? They also need to read the rules then.}




EFCONE's banter posts with other poster's replies to EFCONE's banter posts


01 Sep 2021 18:33:49
I have seen a lot of posters on here talk about our FFP situation as if the it is totally out of our control, and an excuse for our limited spend this season. We have bought and spent our way into this mess. We should be grateful that Rafa is at the helm and may give us a fighting chance, but at the same time we should be annoyed/ angry that it has come to this, not begrudgingly accepting as so many are.

For as long as I have been active on these forums, which is only 2 or 3 years to be fair ED002 has warned us of the mess we were digging for ourselves - and taken a lot of abuse in return as we constantly spent like there was no tomorrow and made it look like he was talking rubbish.

Even last season we had the 5th highest net spend during a C.V. when we were clearly on the brink of breaching ffp.

Would be nice if we all took a minute to eat a big slice of humble pie, and admit ED002 was 100% correct.


1.) 01 Sep 2021 18:58:55
Who was doubting him? We all knew that the spending couldn't continue at the same rate, Koeman spent around 210m and silva over 100m. We gambled on getting into the European competitions on a regular basis but have failed drastically. If it had paid off then we all would have been buzzing, including yourself! We have no choice but to begrudgingly accept it, what else can we do? As I said, we gambled paying ridiculous wages and fees in the hope these players would get us on the gravy train. We are a mid-table club paying champions league wages. Go figure.
It's not an excuse that our limited spending is due to ffp, it's a fact. It's obviously down to financial mismanagement but anyone with any common sense could see it coming if the gamble didn,t pay off. and thats where we find ourselves right now mate.

2.) 01 Sep 2021 19:49:03
What I find hard to accept is that Farhad has been at the club for 5 years building up his share. With him being a Chartered Accountant I would have expected the finances to have been improved at an earlier date. Am I missing something.

3.) 01 Sep 2021 22:54:29
Yes, your missing the fact that the guy didn’t understand footballers. If you spend a fortune on a Rolls Royce you get a beautiful car that’s a joy to drive. If you spend a fortune on a footballer you cross your fingers and hope for the best.
Unfortunately Moshiri bought a load of bangers, because he listened to some very clever salesmen.
Expensive lesson but hey he can afford it.

4.) 01 Sep 2021 23:51:22
Yea damage was done but feel we rectified that from last summer till now where players bought in are either regulars and improved us or the ones that have not worked out like Kean, we have moved him on and not lost money on, less players coming in per window which is Key, few more need to go over next 2 windows.

5.) 02 Sep 2021 09:34:52
Have to agree with EFCONE and bluepotato and Ed 2. Financial mismanagement (of epic proportions) had come back to bite us in the Ass. Yes, someone in charge took a gamble and it was a bad one. We bought poorly in the main and overpaid on a regular basis

Who's to blame? Walsh, Brands, the Finance Director who is leaving, the managers or others such as Moshiri himself for knowing very little about football and relying on advisors?

I'm not even sure we have learnt from it - just last season we were paying ridiculous money and wages for Allan, Doucoure and James whilst giving new contracts to Keane and Holgate that they won't get elsewhere. How much are we paying Rondon to warm our bench?

Who's to Blame and have we got rid of them yet?

6.) 02 Sep 2021 10:03:48
Biggest team in that league, regular league winners, regulars in Champ league. Have players who though expensive also generate income for the club. Very good corporate facilities, full ground on match day etc.
We on the other hand.

7.) 02 Sep 2021 12:07:43
We, on the other hand, are starting to cut our cloth accordingly, BB! The gamble for Europe, and the riches that seems to bring, failed miserably and now we have to become more self-sustainable. I think Rafa is the right man in charge to oversee this new approach and lead us ino our new stadium. We just have to be patient and see this season out, if we end it by qualifying for Europe (long shot but anything is possible) then things will improve slightly on the transfer front. By that, I mean we might have a couple of quid to spend and I believe Rafa will spend it wisely, especially in comparison to previous managers.

8.) 02 Sep 2021 17:25:15
BP we have the money to spend but can't spend it. We are now in a position of one in one out. This is where Brands needs to step up and unearth those little gems he was famous for.
I am really not convinced that he would have been happy giving a 31 year old a two year contract, and feel we may still be in a position of him wanting one thing and the manager wanting the other. Only time will tell I suppose.

9.) 02 Sep 2021 18:54:34
BB, yeah I meant we might be allowed to spend a few quid within the constraints of FFP.

10.) 02 Sep 2021 21:47:30
Europes FFP is stricter than our prem league spend rules.
We're currently -13, -112 and -195 over the 3 rolling years.
Some 70 million loss attributed to C.V. 40-50 mill spent on stadium planning which can be removed.

Need to get the wage bill right down but also keep competing.
Its going to be a tough couple of years.

11.) 03 Sep 2021 06:53:09
140 mill not 195 mill oops.



31 Aug 2021 22:05:45
Agree with what a few have said now regards Brands. Even if we do well this season i'd argue its inspite of Brands not because of him.

The squad depth is frankly a joke, we haven't really shifted the players we needed to shift, we have got another 5 or 6 out of contract next season, at which point Allan/ Dacoure will then be into the last season of their contracts, and we will most likely lose one of if not both of Richy and DCL.

We will still be in a fairly big ffp whole still as well I assume since we haven't really made any money, and are paying Mina, Gomes, Siggy, James huge salaries and not even playing them.

Again this doesn't mean we will definitely have a bad season, but if you are they guy on charge of us being in this situation you have a lot to answer for.


1.) 31 Aug 2021 22:09:56
Not all of those players are Brands recruits surely. He’s left trying to offload players on high wages that other clubs just won’t pay. It’s not really surprising is it?

2.) 31 Aug 2021 22:15:46
Not sure how you expect Brands to sell players that we don’t want?
We’re a mid table team so our cast offs would be suited to the championship however most on champions league wages, nobody could move them on.

The squad depth is thin and we appear light in a few areas but the plan has always been to decrease the squad size - time for some of the under 23s to step up.

Think we should just get behind the club and see what happens this season, it’s definitely started better than many expected - let’s hope it continues.

The players we have moved on haven’t been part of the first team anyway. So not sure what the big issue is? Will we miss them? Maybe Nkounkou but no others we have moved on will be missed.

3.) 31 Aug 2021 22:16:22
The Idea that Brands is simply the guy left cleaning up the mess is ludicrous. He must be involved in some way, otherwise what is he doing, he's not implementing a single style through the club or influencing playing style in any way. He may be making progress with the youth teams, but surely the academy director is equally responsible?

4.) 31 Aug 2021 22:54:58
Errrr Moise Kean?

5.) 31 Aug 2021 23:02:55
Can you implement a playing style whilst the manager changes every 18 months? Think you are being overly harsh EFC. I’m not saying he’s without fault but I don’t think he’s the problem at the club. It would be nice just to have some stability for a while and see what he can actually do.

6.) 01 Sep 2021 08:34:39
ONE the playing style is not his fault. The board are doing the scatter gun hiring of managers going from one style to another.

We won't see his influence for at least 5 years and then hopefully with a new identity and consistency we get the benefits from it.

We were stuck with Moyes for 11 years who done nothing to create a legacy and why it was completely dismantled in 1 summer after Martinez came in. Moyes who wanted every last penny for the 1st team, martinet wanted an improved trainng ground and proper academy development. I could write all day about 11 years of failure and what brands is trying trying to do to make sure that doesn't happen again.



31 Aug 2021 08:27:09
I'm not saying their isn't potential in him, but you have to wonder how it is UTD manage to almost double their money on Daniel James. Whereas we can't even give away some of our under performers. Just further highlights the disparity between us and the top clubs.
We all make mistakes in the transfer market, yet the top clubs are able to shift their duds out simply because being signed by them in the first place is enough to protect their value.


1.) 31 Aug 2021 10:09:09
If they had paid over 25m for him in the first place, they wouldn't be doubling their money on him at all. I do get your point though, some clubs are just better at extracting cash from potential buyers. At least, by the looks of it, we get back the majority of what we paid for MK.



29 Aug 2021 07:52:10
I think we all agree it's been a better start than expected. Very happy to see us playing with a clear plan as this has been missing since Martinez left, and playing some exciting football along with it.

Worth remembering though, we all got very carried away at the start of last season, and actually from the corresponding 3 fixtures last season against Leeds, Brighton and Southampton we also picked up 7 pts so whilst we look better results are similar.

Next 2 games will be much more interesting, against teams who also set up to soak up pressure, and who we took 2 pts from 12 off last season. 6pts from these 2, and that really would be a start.


1.) 29 Aug 2021 08:40:41
3 home Prem games coming up in September, which we really should be getting 9 points from. I think we will all have a much clearer picture of where we are come the start of October.

2.) 29 Aug 2021 09:07:00
I feel it’s the start we needed as on paper they were all winnable, hopefully the players continue to gel.



22 Aug 2021 10:12:26
2 games in, and the one thing you can say about both games is that we put in the effort for the full 90 minutes. Sure personal mistakes have cost us, and we had a shakey start to both games. But that's just us.

Some might see yesterday as 2 pts dropped, and yes we had chances to win the game. But given that was a huge home game for Leeds, and that they got the equaliser with 20 minutes to go, you'd have expected that to lift them, to give them the impetus to really go after us and get the winner. With the crowd fully behind them, we still played our game and had more chances to win it.

They came after us and we didn't retreat, we didn't get deeper and deeper into our own half, clinging on for dear life. That is the Everton we all wanted to see, and so far it's what we are getting. Just hope we keep that up!





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10 Sep 2021 08:03:39
That really made me chuckle Ed?.




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31 Aug 2021 15:48:02
Agree, we had 2 keepers on the bench against Brighton, and one of the players that was on the bench is going out on Loan. Thin isn't even the word for it.




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31 Aug 2021 13:24:11
My bad, I thought you could recall them in January if agreed in advance.




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31 Aug 2021 13:17:13
The kind where you can recall them if you get injuries - maybe the kind of clause that exists in champ manager only, I'm sure you are about to enlighten me either way🤣.


{Ed002's Note - That is not how it works. You can only recall players if the terms of the loan are not met.}



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31 Aug 2021 09:24:37
Yeah, kind of realised that after I posted. Call it early morning brain.
I guess even if it doesn't go well in Turin, we should at least get a few mill for him if we can sell him. That plus the loan fees will wipe off most of the outlay on him. So apologies Big C, you may be right, not a great deal but a decent one under the circumstances.





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28 Sep 2021 13:02:11
We have won 1 Cup in the last 36 years so I have to agree with Sobs on this one. No way is the cup our best chance, I mean yes a final appearance could do it. But I genuinely can't even recall the last time we made the league cup final, very early 80s I think. So not sure anyone could argue its a good shot.




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24 Sep 2021 20:36:36
I think the Rodriguez business had actually been good by Brands. Just a shame we couldn't offload him before deadline day.

Essentially we took a punt on a potentially world class player that was for the manager, we paid nothing for him other than wages (perhaps too high wages) .

When he played he did very well at times, pre December anyway, but then it fell apart, didn't work out and we have offloaded him, for reportedly a small fee.

Job done by Brands om that one. I'm not exactly a huge fan of what brands has done so far, but that one he did his job well in my book.


{Ed014's Note - That guy had one World Cup when he shone, the rest of the time he’s been an utter waste of space.



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23 Sep 2021 21:28:27
He has had stick since pretty much since his second season. On current performance fair enough, but it's he has been bashed season after season. If they aren't world beaters within a season we turn on them.

DCL may not have come through the academy, but even he is a case in point. Was getting flack off our fans last season for no good reason at all other than not being able to finish 100% of his chances.




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23 Sep 2021 19:46:22
Still it's 38 times longer than Iwobi's.


{Ed025's Note - love it mate..



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23 Sep 2021 19:32:16
We go through this debate every season.

Top sides youth players are surrounded by world class players. They are developed in a culture of winning, and as mentioned above are able to be eased into the team without too much pressure on their shoulders. Often in matches that are already won.

For us, every time a youth shows any promise the fan base goes into a frenzy that is often impossible to live up to. Made worse by our disillusionment with the first team

We are very rarely winning games comfortably enough to risk playing youngsters. Bringing them in and losing would not help them at all. So we get stuck in a status quo.

We call for them to be played, because we'd rather see them than than over paid show ponies, yet when they do get given a chance they get more stick than anyone else - Tom Davies for example. It's just no win for anyone.