14 Aug 2022 10:07:05
Can't get my head around how people think Holgate is good enough.

Yes, his performances improved under Frank but its hard not to get better than where he was at, that still doesn't mean he is good enough.

Just look at that Buendia goal yesterday and it gives you all the evidence you need.

1.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 10:46:43
Ithink Tom Daviestaying with his player had a lot to doo with that.

2.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 11:16:03
Conversely JMW I can’t believe how so many people think he’s not good enough.
He’s been very good in these first two games.
He looks a lot more composed and seems more disciplined.
We’ve conceded 3 goals and he has not been at fault for any.
He’ll only improve for playing alongside coady and Tarkowski as well as hopefully having stability of a long term manager rather than continually chopping changing managers and style of play.

Our financial position means we need to be savvy with our purchases - it makes no sense to replace him.

3.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 13:15:43
JMW, Tom Davies not tracking back was to blame for the Buendia goal. He was too slow to tackle him just outside the box then stopped when Buendia passed it wide. School boy errors as usual. The defence looked strong in the middle, Mykolenko wasn’t great and Patterson didn’t see enough off the ball. Our midfield and frontline were non existent again. Iwobi done lots of running but not much else and Onana was our only bright spark yesterday, IMO.

4.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 14:11:07
Holgate has improved, but the lad has had a bad season and a half. Not long ago they were mentioning England caps for him. He's going to learn more beside Coady and tarkowski, than alongside mina and keane. Fans were wanting him to play defensive midfield a while back. He can pass a ball plus he has the speed that Coady and tarkowski don't have. Wonder if keane would improve next to them 2 ona CB partnership?

5.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 14:14:24
GD, I don't think he is good enough because i have seen him switch off north of 100 times in the 6 (7) seasons he has been with us. It is the same as Keane and it costs us too many times.

They are a second behind some of these forwards in this league, certainly in their reaction time and awareness of their surroundings, the general speed of the game, be that physically or mentally.

I like Holgate as a lad, i always have. I remember when he had recently broke through and won motm at Goodison. He pulled off a lovely bit of skill on the edge of the box and won us a fk, which we went on to score. His interview after, it was brilliant and then him accepting the award in front of the fans, i have always liked him since.

I think ultimately he tries his best, so i am not slagging him off for a second.

All I am going off is the evidence in his time with us. I know that he just isn't of the level to be starting for Everton, certainly not if we want to have an exciting or meaningful season again.

As i said it is the same with Keane and unfortunately we have had 2 injuries to cb's that would start over the 2 of them. That alone should tell us he isn't good enough.

I didn't once say we should replace him. I was merely responding to people commending his performance yesterday and speaking about our back line being solid now we have signed Coady, when that second goal shows anything but being solid. Knife through butter springs to mind.

You say Holgate looks more disciplined and none of the goals have been his fault. Have you not seen the Buendia goal? Granted it came from a few errors in quick succession.

- Onana losing possession in the middle. (Which i am glad Frank came out and supported him with and said that is what he wants our midfielders to do. )
- Davies being caught in no mans land and out of position too far away from Onana. Just simply no awareness.
- Davies has the acceleration of a slug so couldn't get back in.

And the most avoidable error of all.

- Just basic defending. Buendia and watkins in a 2 v 2 with Holgate and Tark. Tark throws his arm to his right telling Holgate to stick right with Buendia. Holgate ball watching steps in too close and flat footed and just leaves Buendia to run through for the 1-2 with Watkins.

If he had of listened to Tarkowski or just shown any basic instinct of defending and blocked the space or tracked/ blocked his run, there would have been no goal.

I get it, there was a catalogue of errors but a half decent defender in that situation, certainly one with a size difference the same as there was between them two, would just feint to step in and force the pass from Buendia and then retreat to the only space that's available for Watkins to get it back to him for the 1-2.

It is a real shame with Godfrey because i rate him and although he had a bad season last season, there were reasonable factors for why. Neither Coady or Tark are blessed with pace, which is why Godfrey would have gone so well with them, to the affect of a Walker in recovery runs/ ball retrievals.

As i have said before, our issue is our depth. These players we have brought in improve us no doubt, but it isn't a case of if with us, it is always a when. When 1 of our first 11 gets injured, the drop off in either athletic ability (which is huge in todays game) or technical ability with regards to the replacement is vast.

To reiterate i wasn't saying to get rid of Mason and i like the lad and think he is good for the dressing room. We know Mina is made of glass and we can never get him on the pitch. Godfrey has had his fair share of injuries. The game record for Tarks and Coady is a master stroke, but we need another decent cb that can play that rcb role.

It is clear we are going to be utilising wing backs, so another rcb is vital. Holgate should be the last choice cb and we should move Keane on asap and get a young, raw replacement in that wants to show a bit of balls and won't be on anywhere near as high wages.

We have made good signings but now there needs to be a clear out of some of the players that can not step up for this club e. g. Gbamin, Gomes, Davies, Keane at a minimum.

We are already supposedly getting a striker, maybe 2 in. So if we shift some players on we can then, as you said, make some savvy purchases with the money from them and imo, that needs to be another decent, reliable cb, with some pace to fit nicely with Tarks and Coady.

Myko and Patterson will only get better and braver. I particularly like the look of Patterson, he has a lovely touch and a great gate on him once he gets going. His delivery will become a decent tool for us to utilise when Dom returns. We will naturally be higher up the pitch, thanks to having a focal/ sticking point up top with Dom, couple that with Patterson having Dom to aim for with his deliveries and possibly a late and well-timed run from Amadou Lampard and things could happen.

Anyway UTFT.

6.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 14:34:35
Some valid points made there JMW - however it’s not changing my mind as I think Holgate will only get better this season.
He’s been poor previously but that’s been in a chopping and changing defensive set up with no leaders to help him, that’s changed now, him, coady and Tarkowski should be the starting centrebacks for rest of the season.
Mina, Godfrey and Keane all too unreliable.

You suggest we need to purchase an up and coming young centreback - yet we’ve loaned Branthwaite and Gibson out - why do we need another young up and coming one if we’ve already loaned 2 out?

Keep Holgate and let him gain experience from 2 decent centrebacks alongside him.

7.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 15:17:20
Not up and coming young centreback like Braithwaite or Gibson.

They aren't even better than Holgate, so i don't get your point.

You've just plucked 2 inexperienced players out of nowhere and suggested that is the replacement i am talking about.

Braithwaite has just turned 20 and has a bit scope due to his stature and ball playing abilities but the lad has never played more than 10 games a season.

Gibson, couldn't even get into a Reading or Sheffield Wednesday side. We paid about 6m for if i remember from the Geordies. I imagine the new contract was in the hope that he does well and we can recapture a fee. He will not be a cb for Everton.

I meant "Young and raw" in the mold of a Jean-Clair Todibo. Someone who has good physical attributes, has good schooling and in experience in top European leagues but won't cost an arm and a leg yet because they are unpolished.

We missed a trick not moving for Kim early in the window. He will turn out a bargain for Napoli at 16/ 17 mill and will go for big money in 18 months or so.

For the third time, i never said i wanted to get rid of Holgate. Sell Keane and get someone in. Holgate should be last choice cb and then hopefully Braithwaite comes back with more experience and bravery and takes his place next summer.

Needs to be a long term plan which i am sure Frank and Thelwell are already aware of. When a player has been with you for 7 seasons and you go on about how good he has been for the last 2 games, it says it all.

A cb that has gone through the toxic spells of the likes of Martinez, Koeman, Silva, Allardyce, Benitez, shouldn't still be starting for the club. Squad player, in our current situation and circumstance, yes.

8.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 15:47:44
You clearly said - “ get a young, raw replacement in that wants to show a bit of balls and won't be on anywhere near as high wages”

Now we tried that with Gibson and Branthwaite but clearly has not worked out yet so not sure how you’d think it’d be different this time?

Holgate has not been terrible for 7 seasons. He’s been up and down, you even mentioned it yourself about the amount of managers we’ve had in that time - how is any player supposed to settle with such a high turn over and numerous changes of position and tactics?

I’m sure the long term plan for Holgate is to get him playing regularly along coady and Tarkowski and improve him and he will become the long term centreback at the club.

There are far more pressing areas we need to concentrate on - striker - than to be worrying about Holgate who in my opinion is a good option at centreback and will improve this season and definitely doesn’t need moving on - Keane and mina would need to go before Holgate.

9.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 16:02:05
If you are happy with Holgate don't expect us in top half of league this season.

Davies / Kenny / Hollgate all the same - decent players but show no improvement from 1st season in team

Lampard playing hollgate, Davies, keeping Ali, signing McNeil and not playing Rondon from start yesterday makes me wonder his tactics / plan

I do thonk we will have a decent team in 2-3 weeks which will be well organised, full of energy, hatd to beat with x2 new forwards

I also thonk Davies, Hollgate, Gbamin, Gomes rondon gray won't be in that team.

10.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 16:16:53
Sobs - with or without Holgate we highly unlikely will get top half of the league.

We only just avoided relegation last season - do you really think without Holgate we’d make top 10?

Think you need to reevaluate expectations or you could be disappointed.

This season is a rebuilding one with Frank and Thelwell making the squad their own, I’d be happy for 11th - 15th based on what happened last season, if we finish any higher that would be an amazing season.

I agree we need to move Gomes and gbamin on, the others I’d keep as squad players apart from Holgate who should be one of the 3 starting centrebacks.

11.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 16:35:45
Rebuilding - How often we going to except that - we have a keeper and defence as good as we have had in years
If we get Gueye we have a midfield on a par - would have preferred Camara but he’s gone to Monaco

Add x2 forwards with DCL and we should be aiming for top 10 - i think we will get a forward this week

The whole club from board, manager, players, and fans should stop expecting mediocrity- we have a decent squad and should be in top 10 - no excuses - fo you think Gueye would come yo a team happy to finish 15th?

12.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 17:01:26
Regardless how good a player is they need to be able to follow the managers instructions and fit in with the rest of the squad, as well as the style the manager wants to play.

I’d love for us to finish top half of the table but am fully aware that may not be achievable this season.

We only just avoided relegation last season and finished 16th, season before that 10th and before that 12th.

We are currently a bottom of the table team, however I feel there are definite signs of improvement under Frank and Thelwell - however it’s going to take them time to build the squad they want and get them playing the way they want them to - hence rebuilding.

If you don’t think it’s a rebuilding exercise then it would suggest you’re happy with Keane, Coleman, Allan, Gomes, Gbamin etc being in the squad.

I’m not, but I’m also realistic that we can’t move them all on in one window it’ll take time and hence happy for this season to be one where we start rebuilding to a squad and team we can be proud of and one that hopefully in time will start competing - however not sure it’ll be this season.

13.) 14 Aug 2022
14 Aug 2022 21:02:12
I know what i "clearly" said. It is on the screen. What I didn't say was "up and coming". You clearly don't read as you've misquoted me and then make the same point again about Gibson and Braithwaite which i already answered in the previous comment.

Young and raw does not mean a teenager with next to no experience in any of the top leagues. As i have already said, neither of them two are better than Holgate so why would i want someone of that standard to replace him - literally makes no sense.

Again, misquoting. I didn't say he has been terrible for 7 seasons. I said that i have seen enough in those 7 and seen him make enough mistakes to know he isn't good enough to start at cb for us.

Again, i am not sure why i am having to repeat myself. I haven't said once to move Holgate on. I said he should be last choice cb and Keane and Mina should be sold.

Striker is more than a concern but we have been looking at that all window and still not found a solution. What is to say that you cannot look at both at the same time like we clearly did with Tark, Coady, Onana, Vin and McNeil.

To make out centre back isn't a concern when we have lost 2 in the first game is mind boggling. Especially when you watch that 2nd goal back and see the level of defending Holgate shows in that 2v2 situation.

Build a good base and work from the foundations. You don't put the roof on first when building a house. Simple.

14.) 15 Aug 2022
15 Aug 2022 14:04:02
As anyone considered Pickford’s positioning in conceding the second goal?
Instead of initially defending his near post, when Watkins broke down the right, he left his goal rushed out, to no man’s land, at the edge of the six yard area and instead of then diving to prevent the cross stuck a leg out allowing the ball to reach the villa player presenting him with an open, unattended goal.
I’m not excusing poor defending in not being able to deal with a situation when the ball is lost on the half way line but Pickford’s decision making is reckless and drastically needs improving.