Everton Banter Archive April 05 2017

 

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05 Apr 2017 19:20:56
I might be well off here ed. Was there a rule brought out at the start of the season were if you concede a penalty and it's a goal scoring opportunity, then it's a penalty if in the area and no red card? If so, would that not apply to Ashley Williams as the ball looked to be going in and it's a goal scoring opportunity, or is it only in the case of a tackle? Like I say I may be well off just a bit confused. Thanks.

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05 Apr 2017 21:46:16
You are correct as the rule was changed to stop the triple punishment of Red card, penalty and ban. The only problem with Williams is the rule states if it's deliberate handball then the card is red a penalty is given and a ban is served. A tackle prevents a goal scoring opportunity when inside the area, a penalty restores this goal scoring opportunity and therefore only a yellow card, whereas a handball is deliberate and that is why it's a red.

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05 Apr 2017 21:57:53
Thanks bluegray. Just one of them rules that I was a bit unsure of. Altho some fouls are deliberate to stop a goal scoring opportunity, so they are a bit contradictory at times. Thanks for clearing it up.

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05 Apr 2017 17:37:55
Oops. Seems like the reds academy in trouble for trying to poach a kid from stoke. Fined and banned from signing academy players for 2 yrs.

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05 Apr 2017 14:32:25
Hi Ed I have to say this is the best site around, at the end of the day we can make opinions about about any game this season and they will all be different, what I do like though is the banter that goes on here and most of it is really good, we have to respect everyone's viewpoint even we don't agree, but at the end of the day we all want what is best for our beloved club, we are all born Blue and not made, so c'mon you Blues cheers mate, GuernseyBlue ps R. K will get it right in time,

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{Ed025's Note - i think he will as well GB with a few positive signings in the summer mate..

06 Apr 2017 00:09:08
Could not agree more Guernsey, all our views are posted Eds will agree or disagree but do a great job allowing our banter and input, I dared to view an opinion on another site, our nickname as a clue for the site, I got pasted before the event, every post against my views posted, swearwords included, yet when I made my point afterwords, not nasty my posts got omitted and not allowed, even though a further 40 posts were allowed on with my same view, keep up the good work Eds, this is the only site I will be contributing to now.

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05 Apr 2017 15:47:33
Ive been one of lukakas biggest supporters since he joined us. Last night tho I've completely changed my mind. Yes he's good and scores a load of goals. But to disrespect williams like he did was out of order. It wasnt only williams that was frustrated with lukaka. Baines had a go at him aswell which is unlike bainesy.
For me the best thing the club can do is sell him this summer before things spirral out of control. Last thing the club needs is a split dressing room. Might just be me reading into what I saw last night a bit too much but somethings not right between some players and nobody is bigger than the club.
Can lukaka be replaced? I believe he can and will be.

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05 Apr 2017 18:54:47
I'm tending to agree Anom. I like Rom as a guy, (thinking about the way he was with the lady who was hit by his volley at Soton last season and the way he is with young Bradley) but he is so lazy at closing down and tracking back! Last night he was pointing to where he wanted other players to do this but not bothering himself. He only wants to run when he has the ball. I wish he'd take a look at Paulo Dybala and Mario Manduzic at Juventus - they never stop working for the team. Sad to say this, but if we got over £65m I'd wave goodbye, but still wish him all the best.

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05 Apr 2017 14:57:38
so I see motd is on a Wednesday this midweek calendar. has nothing to do with the editor and producer supporting lfc I suppose. last round of midweek fixtures we beat arsenal on the wed but you guessed it lfc played Tuesday and guess what motd was on Tuesday and before anyone tells me the editor and producer don't decide when it's shown that's probably true and I'm probably being my normal bitter self but it does look like that is what happens.

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05 Apr 2017 14:54:42
I assume Williams was sent off for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. I'm sure that is a 1 game ban. 3 Amesbury bans are usually for violent conduct/ play is that right?

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05 Apr 2017 10:46:48
Farhad Moshiri BUYS the Royal Liver Building? will he paint the Liver Birds blue?

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05 Apr 2017 10:36:53
Agree with the posts about managerial error in taking off an attacker and going defensive, inviting pressure.
With United
pressing leaving gaps to exploit, we had a better chance of sealing the points with a breakaway goal from someone with the guile of Mirallas than simply trying to hold out, inviting a mistake at the back through constant bombardment.
It is a game of divided opinions but
I feel Koeman has made wrong managerial strategic decisions in the derby and last night. Man Utd are not a great side and a little more adventure and positivity would have reaped three points
Looking ahead to next season we badly need players of intelligence like Denis Bergkamp was for Arsenal who see the appropriate move or pass in the final third of the pitch.

Oscar.

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05 Apr 2017 10:03:24
On the blame game for last night. I firmly put it at Koemans door.

This obsession with 3 at the back is driving me crazy. At 4 at the back we had better support going forward and were able to buffer the midfield and defence. Once he went defensive we were battered and a better team would have beaten us just like the Chelsea, Spurs or Liverpool games.

I love Koeman and I think he will win is trophies but he has to recognise this is not working. We talked about it on the chat last night before they scored that the change was killing us.

On another note Kev showed his frustration last night and looks like he will be on the move this summer. Plus a lot of frustration from Baines and Williams towards Rom. I hope this doesn't start to be detrimental in the performances coming up and undo the good work over the past 5 months.

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05 Apr 2017 10:39:11
It's unlikely we will finish below 7th this season so in a way whilst I agree it sometimes works against us with 3 at the back, I can see this as being the right time to keep with it in a way to educate the team to play this way and then bring in some quality in the summer, to fit the formation better. Just a thought.

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05 Apr 2017 12:17:45
Have to disagree. I can't think you can blame Koeman for the result. The changes were necessary given that most of those players were looking extremely leggy (including Mirallas) . Also, given injuries to key players in key positions his actual options are limited.

One sub that I would have changed is putting Valencia on rather than DCL. Think Valencia's hold up play and movement would have suited the style we were trying to play at that stage of the game.

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05 Apr 2017 13:45:55
Have to agree with Toffee ace and CToffee.

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05 Apr 2017 17:32:50
I don't disagree with taking off Kev but I do disagree putting on another CB. DCL or Valencia should have been the move instead he went with 3 at the back.

Can anyone here say that when he went three at the back we looked better and more in control? Can anyone here say 3 at the back has worked against the better sides away from home? Even against City it was awful and we defended for 90 minutes.

His risk taking with this formation has cost us positions in the league using this.

Now before you say I'm being negative I'm not. Koeman has been brilliant this season and we are a massive improvement. He will make us better and better and I've never been happier. However, you've got to call him on it when he makes mistakes. This was a mistake. RESULTS prove it.

Next season hopefully he will have the players to make this work but don't use it if we don't have them. We could have been above United today.

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05 Apr 2017 17:27:13
I rate Koeman's knowledge better than mine, but I feel we missed a trick last night in not bringing on Lookman instead of C/ Lewis. I feel his speed and ball control and possibly better self confidence running at tired it's defenders in last 10 mins could have brought reward. Though thought ref gave all 50/ 50s their way if it was for assistant flagging offside we would have lost a game we deserved to win.

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05 Apr 2017 18:35:28
Don't disagree with your comment on 3 at the back BlueJohn but I do think you need to look at this specific decision in the context of what was available to him on the bench.

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05 Apr 2017 21:28:38
I think that frustrated me more Toffee. Why not Valencia or Calvert? Instead Pennington.

It works well at home and he's had success there but away from home it just leaves too much space in the midfield and they get overrun.

Hopefully next season he will have learnt lessons and maybe he just doesn't trust these players and panics. There's definitely something not right with this group and that 2 year plan looks more realistic each performance like this.

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05 Apr 2017 09:54:56
Hi NBTB I thought we defended well last night only saw the highlights but I reckon we did OK one daft moment from Williams and if Rom had passed to Kev or Ross instead of keeping it for himself it oils have been a 3-1 cheers mate, GuernseyBlue.

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05 Apr 2017 13:49:16
Agree GuernseyBlue. Very easy to point the finger at Koeman. If we went on the attack and they scored everyone would be saying he should of went defensive. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't scenario.

Imho Robles, Jags and Williams (apart from goal) played very well last night. Even Holgate and Baines done rightly also.

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05 Apr 2017 08:43:08
Hi Ed I totally agree wth NBTBs post below, R K was in no way to blame for way the game finished off last night, I think we rode our luck a bit at times but as NBTB said if only Rom had passed the ball to Kev or Ross we would have all been on here crowing from the highest branch, still a point against that lot is still I'd so let's all look forward to 3 points on Sat, cheers GuernseyBlue.

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{Ed001's Note - how on earth is he not to blame? He bottled it and invited a poor Man Utd side to attack you. That was always going to lead to the possibility of something like that happening, when you entire defensive line is playing within the penalty area. Koeman is as negative as Moyes at times, it is something that has shown up throughout his career. Sometimes it will work, but when it doesn't it can often cause a lot more damage than just losing a goal on the break or some other way, as you are constantly in danger of a card like you ended up with. That has now cost the team its key defender for one more match, as well as the goal conceded.}

05 Apr 2017 08:59:31
Hi Ed yep take your point mate, but I will say one thing football is a game of opinions we all come on here and most have different views, cheers anyway mate always good banter, GuernseyBlue.

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{Ed001's Note - I was really disappointed in him to be honest. I keep hoping when I watch a match that managers will learn from previous mistakes but very few ever do. I just wonder if the team around him are strong enough to make him reconsider his options. The last thing you want is to end up like Arsenal have in recent years, where there is Wenger and a bunch of yes men. With no one there to challenge his opinion, he never has to really consider other possibilities.}

05 Apr 2017 09:03:32
He's not to blame because it would of worked only for a moment of madness by Williams. Williams only has himself to blame for being sent off. How can you blame Koeman for Williams getting sent off?

We defended brilliantly for the entire game until that goal. That is down to Koeman. Under the previous manager we would of let a few goals in.

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{Ed001's Note - defended brilliantly enough to allow them to create a whole host of chances, you were lucky United can't finish, not brilliant. Williams did what most defenders would do in that instance, it is automatic to just stick an arm out to block it. The issue was that he was so deep, which was Koeman's fault, so yes I can blame him. When you went at them, you were the better side, but once caution overcame Koeman, you were all hands to the pump desperation stakes. I really do not know what you were watching, but you clearly watched it through such deeply thick blue lenses that you never actually saw the game. Oh and lucky the Zlatan goal was given offside, as they are usually not given, though I am not sure whether it was the correct decision or not, the benefit of the doubt is supposed to be given to the attacker.}

05 Apr 2017 09:09:28
Good point Ed time will tell cheers, GuernseyBlue.

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05 Apr 2017 09:41:03
No doubt Ed001 there was a certain amount of luck. We were lucky to get away with that goal no being allowed. Of course I'm a little biased towards Everton like every supporter is towards there club.

The point I was making really is that the defense has improved a awful lot under Koeman. The team in general has improved loads. I think that needs to be recognised rather than slating every decision he makes.

If he put on an attacker like Valencia and they scored (which you point out they had plenty of chances) it would have been the same outcome. It's all Koemans fault. When he has improved us so much since the downward spiral we were going in.

With Coleman, Bolasie, Besic, McCarthy, Schneiderlin, Mori and Lennon all out imho Koeman is doing OK.

A couple of months ago people were slating him for not using youth. Now people are slating him for using youth.

Imo we are just not good enough to compete at the very top and Koeman has done very well in his first season to get us on the road to challenging. Against the Reds we were bet by a better team. Pure and simple. Missing all them players above at the same time does not help.

Koeman is only human just like Williams and makes mistakes from now and then. Like any manager. I am very happy with how he is shaping this club up. Last nights performance was a big improvement from Saturday. Koeman deserves praise for that. Don't hear many coming on here doing that.

Fair enough Ed001 you have your opinion and obviously your entitled to it.

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{Ed001's Note - ok mate, that I understand. I just feel it was almost impossible for him not to improve Everton, considering the state you were in when he took over. Defensively I mean.

As for youth, he did the same at Soton, used the youth in his first season, then replaced them all with ready made players and never really used them again. So I would not get excited by him using them now.

Again though, making an improvement over the Derby performance is not exactly setting your sights high mate. I just feel Everton should not be comparing performances to their lows, or any club for that matter, they should be looking to improve on their best performances. Saying it was better than probably your worst game is hardly worthy of praise, to me.}

05 Apr 2017 10:06:05
Ed1, I value your opinion as a footballer fan but ed25 and our fans have a greater insight into our club and progress etc. Just like you do with whichever club you support.

But even you must see the overall improvement we have made under koeman. Obviously away games at the top 6 are always going to be the toughest so we can't expect to win them after 8 months.
Granted we still have a huge way to go before we challenge top 4 but rome wasn't built in a day as they say.

You also have to agree that all clubs have off days or bad runs. Arsenal having one Now, Liverpool lost to Bournemouth, hull etc. Chelsea lost to palace. That is the beauty of football and exactly why we go to watch every week and why these forums and debates in the pub exist.

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{Ed001's Note - really? Fans have almost no insight into football clubs these days, so I would doubt that. That is why we have the morons on social media talking crap and getting big followings.

I have seen progress over last year, yes, but I also saw progress in Martinez's first year, so I would hang fire on judging progress personally. You have a better recruitment policy to follow now, so I would expect the club to progress in that way, regardless of manager, but I have seen enough of Koeman's previous career to be unsure of him. He has always looked to jump ship the moment he has any success, if success has not come he has caused nothing but problems within the club. He is a mercenary always looking for his next payday and the best that can be hoped is that he gets that next payday, as that will mean he has brought some measure of success to the club.}

05 Apr 2017 10:43:54
Completely agree there are morons on social media who spout tripe.
As with any business, appointing staff is difficult. Rk looks a good appointment but only time will tell.

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05 Apr 2017 14:12:10
Ed001 I meant it better because the team lifted themselves from the defeat. Wouldn't be comparing our performances to it even though Liverpool look like they prob will finish in top 4. That's pretty high standards. No point kidding ourselves thinking we are top 4 yet. If that's managed in the next 3 years that would be brilliant work.

I do think comparing things to Utd is setting a high standard. They finished 5th last season. Spent how much on transfers bringing players in? Brought in Ibrahim who is world class.

We finished 11th and look like finishing 7th. Looks like improvement to me. If you don't lose either of your games to Utd in the premiership that can only be a good thing. Especially with the kind of money they pump into the team. Nothing compared to Everton yet we are not far from them.

Team looks far far fitter this year. We didn't improve in Martinez first season. It appeared that way. Maybe your right about Koeman. He may be a mercenary. So far I'm very happy with his influence. Whether that will Chang I guess time will tell.

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{Ed001's Note - ok mate, I can understand that.}

05 Apr 2017 14:59:12
I do agree about Koeman being a mercenary and that is why I did not want him. However he is a good manager and he took over a team that could have got relegated this season as Martinez left such a mess and we're back to where we were under Moyes. that is progress so Koeman can only be judged on that at present.

Unfortunately managers here for the long haul are a very rare breed and we tend to have overseas guys who come for the money and Koeman is no different.
We have many good youngsters here and the only way they might come through is to have a manager who stays at the club and develops them as he develops the club.

Is that Koeman? I doubt it, but let's be positive as his first season is over all, very good.

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05 Apr 2017 06:48:44
Overall I felt we played well last night (for an away game at the mancs) . All players did their jobs. Back 4 were solid and Joel played well as we know he usually does.
Davies was good defensively but not a lot going forward.
Think it was Rio on bt saying games change in little moments of quality. He was talking about the mancs but same applies to us. The 2 or 3 times Rom was free and should have slid kev or Ross in and we could have been out of sight.
Always pleased to leave old Trafford without defeat and we know away at top 6 are the tough games.
Looks like the kids will have to step up and keep vardy and co quiet on sunday.

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{Ed025's Note - leicester are not all that geoff and were second best against sunderland last night, they also have the madrid games coming up so im expecting a positive result, i thought we were ok against united and it was a good battling display even though we rode our luck at times mate..

05 Apr 2017 09:14:51
Agreed ed. The one mistake I think rk made was we sat back when he brought pennington on. Should have kept same formation and out Valencia on for fresh legs and pace up top.

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{Ed001's Note - I agree, you had the beating of them until that moment, as it signaled to your players that you were settling and to their players that they had you on the ropes. It gave them a lift at a time when they could well have thought a goal was never going to come.}

05 Apr 2017 02:23:47
Moment of madness from Williams but the man's human. Things happen. On to the next.

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05 Apr 2017 14:50:30
much improved display shame we didn't show half that fight on Sat.
Does anybody else think the ref was as a home banker as they have seen he gave us nothing especially on Barkley who I thought should of had a few free kicks I wonder if his tackles at the weekend played on the refs mind due to Ross being very lucky to stay on the pitch v lfc.

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