Everton Banter Archive November 03 2017

03 Nov 2017 22:18:04
Just a question but what do people see different in say a Tuchel/ Ancelotte to a Dyche/ Alardyce?

Also why do we think a manager who can win trophies and manage big egos can't get players motivated to get out of trouble or a manager that is used to fighting at the bottom end of the table can't manage a top club?

It's strange how we all put managers in these boxes.

I'm not interested in who you want but more interested in what you think the qualities are for managing a top club and what the smaller / less successful teams need.

{Ed025's Note - im only speaking on my personal view john, but i see a dyche / allardyce manager as one who will keep you safe from relegation and expecting their club to reach the dizzy heights of the fringes of europa league football, a tuchel / ancellotti will expect nay demand money and resources to enable their club to challenge for honours and CL football..

03 Nov 2017 22:55:56
Maybe it's the intensity that the struggling clubs have that the Alardyces tap in to but when at the top end it's the consistency and coolness under pressure they struggle with. Almost a masochistic mentality.

{Ed025's Note - very possibly john..

04 Nov 2017 07:51:24
If it is him, I can see Dyche with his commonsense and methods being a success at this Great Club and hopefully here for a long time.

03 Nov 2017 22:09:09
I keep reading fans who write about who's the bookies' favourite for the Everton managerial position and that bookies "rarely get it wrong".
Well, bookies are in the business of making money and set the odds according to how much the punters are wagering and therefore how much money they (as bookies) stand to win or lose whoever is appointed.
The bookies change the odds as punters hear or read something and decide to put money on a particular candidate. The bookies might set the odds at the beginning to match what they believe is most likely, but once bets are being placed it's the amount placed in market that dictates how the odds change.
Being right or wrong isn't the aim of the bookies, but making money is - whatever the result is. So it isn't a matter of "bookies rarely get it wrong", but that any competent bookie will make a profit whatever happens.
I bet (pun intended) the bookies made a tidy profit when outsiders (and originally long-priced) Leicester City won the Premier League and loads of punters had losing bets on the usual "favourites". As Leicester City became serious contenders during the season - and punters began putting bets on them - their odds were reduced so that the bookies made money whatever the outcome.
I wish people would understand that and appreciate that bookies aren't "Mystic Megs", but are hard-nosed business people that evaluate the risk-rewards (i. e. profit/ loss) in order to make money. At the end of the day, if a favourite wins then it's because the odds (that made it a favourite) were set by the bookies in response to the amount wagered by the punters - and it's those winning punters who didn't "get it wrong".

04 Nov 2017 01:07:13
You're right odds change to reflect betting patterns so bookies can hedge their bets and make sure they make money no matter the outcome.

04 Nov 2017 03:02:24
good post.

03 Nov 2017 21:35:18
Robbie Savage is absolutely spot on in his assessment of Everton in its current form. Ed002 whoever he/ she is, is absolutely spot on in the crux appears to be the mystifying appointment of a scout (Steve Walsh) to DoF, way above his pay grade. The question has to be, how can obviously successful business people - we are talking about millionaire and billionaires here - be so naive, who are they listening to? Identify who that is and the problem is 80 percent solved.

03 Nov 2017 20:45:51
I want Walsh sacked he has done more harm than good.

03 Nov 2017 21:48:28
Don’t sack him he’s just the wrong person in the wrong job. Keep him in his scouting role where he’s clearly got value. He’s just like an excellent player played out of position. Play to the mans strengths and we will have what is probably one of the best scouts in the modern game.

04 Nov 2017 07:58:36
Agreed Toffee ace. Sometimes criticism can be taken out of context. My criticism was precisely as you have outlined about Mr Walsh.

04 Nov 2017 08:24:54
I thought his job was to talk to Koeman about what type of players he wanted and then goes and identifies them at which point Kenright goes and signs them. Which tells me Koeman is more to blame and possibly Kenright for not getting a LB and striker over the line. Koeman must have asked for so many number 10's, Cuco as RB.

03 Nov 2017 18:20:56
Hey Ed 025 out of all the managers available and who would want the job at Everton, what would be your pick, i myself would go for Chris Coleman.

{Ed025's Note - short term dyche but long term tuchel for me GB, we need to get out this mess so need a steady no nonsense manager who knows the league and what is needed, dyche can do that but i dont know how far he can take us in the long term mate..

03 Nov 2017 20:11:20
Good shout not easy mate, every one on here will have their own view and opinion, but as you say the most important thing is, it has to be someone who can dig us out of this mire and pronto, who ever comes in though will get my full support.

03 Nov 2017 20:19:43
Agree with Ed025, Dyche firstly. Then who knows.

03 Nov 2017 20:38:20
I have to say I think Dyche would be the shrewd appointment we have to start walking before we run and I think that would be a solid appointment to then build from.
Further to that though from discussions with Ed2 I feel he is right that our structure needs a review as it appears disjointed and having someone in a Sporting Director role that Walsh and the new manager would report up into would make sense to me, not sure who would fill such a role and what criteria they would need match I don’t know but hopefully it would help everyone pull in the right direction.

03 Nov 2017 21:56:02
Actually think Dyche has done wonders and if he could replicate that at Everton I. E. same template. With our resources, I firmly believe he could just be the down to earth ambitious manager we have been waiting for.

04 Nov 2017 03:11:06
not a popular choice but if at all possible benitez for me would 100% get us where we want to go don't think we could get anyone better right now jan window will be massive need the right man in place dyche sam big no for me.

03 Nov 2017 14:45:04
ed25, Koeman said we got 95 mill for Lukaku, if you add the 8mill for Cleverly, and the fees for a number of fringe players, what would you say our net summer spend was?

{Ed025's Note - not that big JCW although a lot of money has been spent on wage increases, agents fees, vat etc, but how much i would be guessing mate..

03 Nov 2017 17:21:09
12 for Del Boy?

03 Nov 2017 21:59:25
Inconsistent but imagine Del Boy in full flow down the right, marry that with Lookman/ Mirralas down the left, Sandrow running on to the crosses, the confidence would be immense.

03 Nov 2017 14:29:03
Funes Mori on way back. Would be good to see how him and Keane got on as a partnership? We have had everyone else together.

03 Nov 2017 11:47:42
I know it doesn't feel like it at the moment, but we are a good manager, a striker, and a returning right-back away from being a very good team. Pickford just needs to learn not to parry shots back into the danger area and he's a solid, commanding shot-stopper with great distribution. Coleman is back in a few weeks.

Keane isn't a world beater but he's a decent premier league defender with potential to improve. Holgate is young and needs experience but is versatile and has quality. Jags and Williams are ageing of course but have shown in their careers that they have quality. More than most positions, centre-backs will be affected by low confidence and that will lead to mistakes. That doesn't mean they've become terrible players.

Baines still has a lot to offer but, like everyone else, his confidence is shot. Gana is a top defensive midfielder and Schneiderlin proved at other clubs he is class. Davies is also low on confidence but is potentially world-class once it returns. Klaassen captained a team who were runners-up in the Europa League and played fantastic football - don't tell me he's not physical enough for the prem when David Silva and Coutinho are. Siggy is an intelligent playmaker, works hard and is one of the best dead-ball specialists around - look at his performances for his country even this season. Vlasic looks a real talent, as does Lookman if he can improve his decision-making. Rooney still has quality and heart - he's just got to be used properly. Sandro is a skillful, tenacious footballer who has showed he can score good goals against top clubs. I haven't mentioned Besic, Kev, Ross, Bolasie, DCL or Beni, all of whom have a lot to offer.

We have a strong youth squad to come through, including three players with bags of potential gaining experience on loan - one of whom scored a hat-trick this week. It's dark times, the squad is a bit unbalanced and everyone's confidence is completely shot, but that can be fixed by the right manager who knows how to use these players tactically and build their confidence. It's also going to need fans to be more supportive - of course it's hard to do that when things are so bad on the pitch but it's part of the solution for us to cheer the team on rather than get on their backs, which makes matters far worse.

It doesn't matter how talented you are, what you earn or even how honoured you feel to wear the shirt - the game is half psychological and that is mostly about confidence. We can help build that or we can damage it further. The panic and knee-jerk reactions are understandable but they won't help. Our job is simple: support the team through thick and thin. We are Everton.

03 Nov 2017 12:28:52
Great positive and inspirational post coyb. Any chance you can pop over to Finch Farm and tell the players the same thing? That's what they need right now, to be loved and bigged up and told how good they actually are. Let's put the european disaster behind us, wipe out mouths and move on. Get behind the lads on Sunday and play Watford off the park.

03 Nov 2017 12:48:58
Feel a lot more positive after reading that coyb, youve nailed it there. All need to be in full voice sunday let's make the old lady rock to the foundations . coyb.

03 Nov 2017 13:15:56
I love your positivity coyb, let's hope on Sunday it all comes together and get three points. Unfortunately what you say about some of the players is not true. Rooney, Williams, Jags and Baines have lost pace and it shows against some of the younger faster opponents. Schneiderlin has been terrible and is not helping our defense at all. The fact that our defense is letting in two goals at least in games says it all. Until we solve our defensive problems you can forget about the rest of the team. Even if we get a proven striker in during the January window he is not going to turn this team into a winning combination. Look at the records, how many teams who let in two goals per games win anything? I know Coleman returning will help but the problem has been down the middle, Williams and Jags need be used as substitutes or play when someone is injured and not as starters so a first class center-back to play with Keane would be a top priority for me in January and a left-back to compete with Baines is also needed. Add a top quality striker and we may have a chance.

03 Nov 2017 14:54:17
Fantastic post coyb. I can't argue with any of it.

03 Nov 2017 15:07:41
It is a good positive post coyb but unfortunately in the real world are confidence is shot and most of the squad just aren’t good enough. We’ve far too many similar players and are unbalanced throughout. There is no quick fix and if we concede first on Sunday (or any game) we will probably be beaten again, easily.

03 Nov 2017 17:53:59
I wouldn't normally advocate such a thing, always preferred to sort my own problems out in life. But this smacks of a Hoddle/ Allardyce scenario I. E: 'Sports Psychologist'.

03 Nov 2017 18:32:50
I appreciate your realism, Mike and Joe. Of course these players have been playing poorly and a couple have lost pace as they've aged. That happens to almost every footballer, but it can be offset by the added experience they have. That doesn't seem to be happening at the moment but they are all capable of much better than we've seen lately. We can deduce that because this isn't just the ageing players don't badly; it's everyone. Even players that have proven their quality over several seasons or those who have shown huge promise: they all suddenly seem poor. There is an important difference between playing badly, even for a period of many weeks and being a bad player; there is a difference between being short on confidence and not being good enough. I agree with you that ideally we want defensive reinforcements and obviously striker, and will desperately need them by next season as these guys age further. But I would argue our squad are still good players who have been poorly managed: in many cases played out of position or brought in and out of the team, some are just adapting to the league with an awful initial fixture list. It's been a few factors and they've suffered confusion and a debilitating loss of confidence as a result. I'm not saying it's all rosy - of course not. And I'm not saying the players are not also responsible - they do need to step up and at least get the basics right in terms of positioning. I just think we're not as bad as it feels right now and we will turn this round. As supporters, we need to remain psychologically positive just as the players need to.

03 Nov 2017 19:12:51
The problem coyb is that we just have too many older and slower players. Non of the players we brought in apart from Vlasic is fast. We are just unbalanced and slower than most of the other teams in the premiership. We definitely need a new manager who can get the best out of what we have but unfortunately Koeman and maybe Walsh have left us in a very difficult and precarious situation with the summer recruitment. I have said before that we will not be relegated, we have too much talent for that but we need to recruit the players I mentioned above to give us a chance to improve.

03 Nov 2017 21:36:52
That's a good post. I for one have been guilty of suicidal pessimism recently but your post is a reminder that there is some good in the club at the moment.

Problem is we need the right manager to put that on the pitch. Plus the removal of whatever virus seems to be damaging the team from within.

03 Nov 2017 11:43:51
so after hearing we wanted the wolves manager I was interested to see what wolves fans were saying well Jesus they really are a deluded lot things like why would he join a small club and wolves are on their way to overhauling them next season and they are only a mid table premiership team why would he leave wolves for them ha ha I know we all got a bit carried away in the summer but boy they take the Mick ha ha anyway let's hope our boys can restore some pride tonight and give unsworth a big smile on his face along with millions of blues.

03 Nov 2017 10:03:51
We really need to get back to basics when it comes to defending as we are a shambles.
The space between Williams and Holgate at times last night was amateur to put it nicely, with Williams apparently being an experienced defender!
The closing for the second goal was none existent and once again we were far too deep and allowed the space inside our area due to this.
The basics of defending should be natural and not need coaching, yet we find a back line that is never in line and always has somebody too deep allowing attackers space.
We need to stop tinkering with the central defensive pairing and go with an accomplished duo to get an understanding.
In football 5 yards is a lot of space if you are too deep, the midfield and defence have about 20 yards in between them and if we continue playing this way we will continue to leak goals and inevitably go down, sad but true. I would take a nil-nil Sunday if offered to me now as that way we have kept a clean sheet.

03 Nov 2017 11:58:13
For months I stood on the touchline shouting at Grandson (a CB and pretty good) to close down space, until finally he got it. Yet this lot supposed professionals just don't get the basics. I tell you what though they will do as Dyche tells them.

03 Nov 2017 09:21:42
I've just seen that Unsworth said "for 70 minutes we were near perfect with our gameplan". That is absolutely terrifying. If the game plan was to run around aimlessly with no shape and to give the ball away without passing it forwards then I guess he was right.

He seems to want to get sacked like Koeman did.

{Ed025's Note - thats a bit harsh i think windsor, second half we played some nice stuff for me, maybe somewhere inbetween may be correct mate..

03 Nov 2017 07:15:54
Koeman got the blame and sacked. Now Unsworth is getting some stick so I can't see him becoming the full time manager. I'm sorry but this is Steve Walsh's fault. He knew Lukaku was going months in advance and never signed a replacement. Koeman kept saying in interviews "I need a striker. " Giroud was supposedly in Everton HQ and ready sign but changed his mind last minute, so doing a "Barkley" and would rather stay and earn a fantastic wage doing sod all.

03 Nov 2017 08:47:57
Unsworth does'nt deserve the stick he's getting, it's down to the players and the fools that spent 150 million on rubbish. williams say's that the team caused koeman's sacking, so it's Rhinos turn now.
whoever takes over this shambles have there work cut out for them.
if everton was a car it would be a total writeoff.

{Ed025's Note - its such a hard job though leinster, if your strict you get accused of being aloof and alienating the players, if your sympathetic you are then too soft and trying to be one of the boys so its very tricky, david will not be getting the gig as the hierarchy are panicking and wont allow him the time, that may actually be a blessing for the guy who is on a hiding to nothing mate..

03 Nov 2017 11:46:10
I actually blame both as koeman and Walsh would get together and discuss targets then I believe it was koeman who had the final say which is why he lost his job and Walsh is still employed I just hope moshiri has read him the riot act and his is on a final warning not to mess up in January as if he doesn't get us a decent striker in I think that could spell the end for Walsh.

03 Nov 2017 12:13:29
Simple concept Ed at work do as your told (I will explain best I can) and think of me what you want but do it.

03 Nov 2017 04:23:40
Can anyone tell me what happening with Sandro Ramirez? I know he has been out of form but I can't understand the complete lack of involvement with the squad. If he's out of form play him in the U23's to help him get it back but this complete exclusion can't be helping his confidence. Maybe the same with Klassen but at least he's getting on the subs bench.

03 Nov 2017 03:21:10
Being knocked out of this competition is probably the best thing that could of happened to the club, we will have more time on the training field to try and get a settled team and prepare for league games, I have a feeling that we will now start to slowly improve, I feel for David Unsworth let's not underestimate the passion and effort he is putting in.
I am sure that if Steve Walsh has the same passion then he will have his list of 5 or 6 new player required by the 1st of January
One win will set us off and then we will start to climb the table.

03 Nov 2017 06:16:54
He has passion and loves the club but that's not enough need a manager with experience to get the dressing room lifted and players to roll up there sleeves and fight.

03 Nov 2017 06:22:47
They are giving the effort but they are simply not good enough, it's not Unsworth fault.

03 Nov 2017 06:38:00
Disagree with that Uran. Klaasen, Sandro, Keane and Sigurdsson were all more than good enough at their old clubs. Three months with us and they're all devoid of confidence and look like they've forgotten how to play.

The problem is with us mate, but I have no idea what it is. Certainly having a scout as DOF seems ridiculous to me. Presumably though we decided we wanted him and he said he'd only come for that job title.

03 Nov 2017 08:21:01
Windsor we all know now that Sandro Klassen are not ready yet for this league to have an impact, we know that Sigurdsson is not effective in the system we're we don't have pacey over lapping full backs for him to play them in behind, Keane has been our best defender but still has a lot more to show,
Ttey have tried to replace Barkley, with Rooney, Klassen and Sigurdsson but have failed they have signed Sandro hoping he could replace Lukaku which has failed
They signed Scheiderlin to replace Barry which has failed
The team was much stronger last year even if you dismiss the Lukaku situation
These players maybe good for their previous clubs but they are definitely not showing that they are good enough at Everton.

{Ed025's Note - they are not fitting into the system uran, thats assuming we have a system of course mate..

03 Nov 2017 08:29:39
whoever gets the Managers job they will not be able to wave a magic wand to put this team right, he will insist that we sign 5 or 6 new players in early January.

{Ed025's Note - and my god we need them mate..

03 Nov 2017 08:35:31
I agree Ed but for the sort of money we have paid for them then they should be able to adapt, how long do we wait for them for them to fit in,

{Ed025's Note - they all came with a reputation of being good players uran, they have not become pathetic overnight so it has to be the system or the manager thats to blame, whatever it is there is something definitely wrong mate..