Everton Banter Archive October 31 2015

 

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31 Oct 2015 17:11:43
"Tim Howard's experience means he merits a place in Everton's team even when he is not playing well, according to manager Roberto Martinez".

I have never played well but have plenty of experience having watched Everton for almost 70 years but this is the most stupid comment I have heard from an Everton manager. Maybe I should get my boots out of the garage.

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31 Oct 2015 17:40:50
I agree BlueMike75. I like the squad Martinez has assembled and his style of play at times is questionable but overall entertaining. With the keeper he has a problem on his hands and I don't think he's handling it well. Come to think of it I don't think 90% of Evertonians do.

It has been said Martinez won't play Robles because of the inexperienced back line at the moment. So its the long term future of Robles he's protecting I presume. I. e. If he plays Robles with Browning, Stones, Mori and Galloway he's afraid Joel will have a stinker and it would destroy his confidence.

Think he's being over protective. Joel is a better keeper than Howard at the moment. Simple as, so just play him. For everyone's sake involved. Including Howard.

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31 Oct 2015 18:38:36
Joel is more vocal than Howard too NBTB.

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31 Oct 2015 19:14:59
If we draw or even lose against Sunderland tomorrow let's see what waffle man comes out with then. However admirable Mr Kenwrights sense of loyalty is toward his Managers sometimes pride has to be disposed of and the hard headed business side has to take precedence. We all love this great Club and Mr Kenwright needs to step up to the plate.

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31 Oct 2015 19:48:46
So play a keeper with experience behind an inexperienced backline who are then not filled with confidence from having him behind them so we now have 5 players prone to mistakes due to Howard being past it. Martinez is looking for excuses to play his favourites and hasn't got the balls to drop certain players. In the last 3 games Howard has cost us points, if you ain't performing you shouldn't be playing its that simple. Shame the gaffer can't see this.

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31 Oct 2015 20:56:56
Remember a manager having the guts to end the everton career of a former world class keeper with an unknnown norwegian, we went on a great run of games. this is one of the most vital positions, make the call before our season falls away. can always bring in experence in january if robles doesn't reach the standards required.

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31 Oct 2015 22:38:44
Jags is out for 2mths, Baines out, Coleman out (perhaps) and Stones still learning. We have a completely new back 4 with little or no experience and you guys think this is a good time to drop Tim!? Seriously?

And ye call RM stupid.!

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31 Oct 2015 22:55:25
we have stones who Chelsea were willing to pay 36 million for, we have Mori who we paid 9 million for. then we have Gallagher at LB already proved this season what he can do and we have browning at RB, who I would argue is currently better than Coleman.

Behind them we have a GK rooted to the spot who for both United goals was less than 1.5 meters away yet would not come out. Oh yes aflm78, I call RM stupid alright, especially after Robles has just had a very good game and he (RM) comes out post match and says, stuff you Robles, Tim is definitely in next game.

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31 Oct 2015 23:01:14
aflm, Tim is not vocal nor reliable so it is the PERFECT time to drop him. Joel is vocal, Stones still learning? So? He's a leader, far ahead of his age. Never been a better game to drop Howard. Especially when BFS will be launching balls in to the box for Tim not to collect so he can score. Has there ever been a better game to drop Howard? .

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31 Oct 2015 23:01:53
Have to disagree with you there aflm78. Howard is brutal. Should have been dropped last season never mind this season. So if he keeps letting in goals like he has so far this season you think he should remain in goals? Just for the reason he has more experience?

Doesn't matter what experience he has, what age he is. Joel is a better keeper at the moment. If you keep someone in the team for the solidarity reason that they have plenty of experience you'd never drop them. Always comes a time when a player needs to be dropped. Roy Keane at Utd springs to mind.

All good things come to an end. Will be a revolution if Howard plays bad. Martinez is playing things risky. Sunderland could very much target Howard. If they do, god help us.

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31 Oct 2015 23:15:46
tough call but think I agree with aflm howard not at his best but giving the inexperience in back four right now its probably not the right time to change goalie also is robles ready i'm not so sure let him play few more cup games see how he gets on considering the tough start we have had a win tomorrow I think will have us nicely positioned and give us the confidence to push on through an easier run of games next few weeks will be exciting I think.

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01 Nov 2015 00:12:46
Duncansmum you keep calling him Gallagher it's Galloway ffs. And no guys I 100% disagree with dropping Tim right at this moment.

Some of you were extremely critical of Joel when he arrived and slated RM for even signing him now your slating him for not dropping Tim and playing Joel.

It's ridiculous! Don't let the fact that you have had enough of Tim and want rid cloud your judgement. It's a bad time to do it and thankfully RM seems to understand that. I hope Tim has a stormer tomorrow not that you'll give him any credit for it! Just like RM most of you have decided he's crap and want rid at any cost!

How bout we get of his back instead of putting more pressure on him, as if he makes a mistake tomorrow we all suffer. Some of you sound like you want him to f@ck up just to prove you right and RM wrong and give you more ammunition against him. After all half of you have already decided he is a fraud despite him achieving our highest ever Premier league points tally, getting us into the QF of cup for only 2nd time in 27yrs, and putting together the best squad we've had in years in only 2 and a half seasons. Oh I forgot it was all actually Moyes' doing RM just got lucky!

The next 9 games are truly vital for our season we need to unite and get behind the team not help sabotage it with moaning and booing! Btw I would break the bank to sign Butland in January then let Tim go end of season but he doesn't deserve to be hounded out of the club.

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01 Nov 2015 00:33:23
afim 78. In my opinion Gallaway has been better than Baines but Baines will be re-instated when he is fit because he has more "experience"! As far as I am concerned if you have two or three players for any position then the one who is playing the best football should be in the team regardless of age, experience or any other made up excuse.

We lost against Arsenal because of abysmal defending mainly due to Howard having no bloody idea how to cut out crosses, for that alone he should be dropped. I hope Tim has a blinder against Sunderland tomorrow but I am concerned that Big Sam will have him sussed out.
Mike.

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01 Nov 2015 01:00:01
Let's balance out the OP and be fair across the board here boys.
"There is healthy competition between the two. It's not a given that Joel is number 2 and Tim is no 1. That's not the case. I always take the fans' views into consideration. Everything we do is for the fans but I work with the players on a daily basis and know what they bring.

I would never manage the squad with a blame culture and sacrifice a player who makes mistakes. There is a bigger picture. I know when Joel can come in and do a good job as he did on Tuesday. In the same way, I know the times when Howard's experience and know-how are vital and needed for young players in front of him to perform."

As regulars on here will testify, I'm no fan of RM. Neither do I really rate Joel. But his comments that I quoted do make a little sense. If Coleman is ruled out then that leaves us with a very inexperienced defensive unit, so his comments have a little bit of substance to them.

On the flip side, there is no denying TH has been poor in a few games already this season. Can we afford to give him the chance to redeem himself? From what RM has said, this looks like the final throw of the dice for TH, another dodgy performance and he will be dropped.

Personally, I'm not too bothered who is between the sticks tomorrow, I believe we have more than enough about us as a team to deal with Sunderland. As long as our attacking players score more than the mistakes TH may make then we will be good!

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01 Nov 2015 02:06:29
To be fair, as good a keeper as both Howard and robles are. posters keep saying it Howard's experience that keeps him in goal. We aren't a newely promoted team needing experience. The squad is strong enough to let us have Joel for the long run.if Joel ain't the answer,then maybe our back 4 ain't up to the job. But in truth, we need something done and quick

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01 Nov 2015 07:36:54
So what if Tim gets injured in the warm up then is Joel still not good enough because he hasn't played many games? Starjump does nothing to fill me with confidence going into a game against a side who will look to put high balls in the box at any chance they get. Stones is an international so is Mori so the inexperience shout imo is just an excuse tbf, Star jump doesn't command his 6 yard box, doesn't come for crosses, is caught off his line far to often when the ball is around the edge of the penalty area and will cost us a goal most games. I am not fully convinced Joel is the answer but I would like the chance to form an opinion based on him having a run of games.

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01 Nov 2015 10:29:56
Aflm78 you need to calm down. I think we all want what's best for Everton and just having a healthy discussion about it.

You mention people gave out about Martinez signing Joel then giving out now that he won't play him. Too right! What was the point in signing Joel in the first place if he won't play him. If I was Joel I'd be wondering what I'd have to do to get my place on the team. The manager keeps backing the other goalie mistake after mistake. As I said before if I was Joel and was continually overlooked I'd request a transfer in January. Imo its Joel that is getting the raw deal here, not Howard.

I will be as happy as anyone if Howard has a stormer today. If he turns out having a good season I will also happily eat my humble pie and be as glad as anyone. No one is trying to hound Howard out of the club. Comes a time when a player needs to be dropped.

I have said repeatedly that I'm not convinced by Martinez. I have never said he was a fraud. Come to think of it I never put Martinez down. The reason I'm not convinced yet is because, Yes he inherited a good squad in a healthy position from the great David Moyes. Look up Martinez being introduced by Kenwright as Everton manager. Martinez even said so himself.

In Martinez's first season he played the exact same back 5 as Moyes assembled. So I don't think its coincidence that Everton had the second lowest goals against in Martinez's first season BECAUSE it was the Moyes players that was continuing what they done under Moyes.

How come the following season as soon as one of the 5 wasn't playing we started leaking goals? No coincidence and Martinez had't much in the pipeline to deal with it. He was lucky Stones was already at the club.

I've on many occasions gave out about booing on this site and detest it. I'm not moaning about Howard or Martinez just giving my twopence worth.

As I said I never gave out bout Martinez. I actually complimented him on several occasions. His style of play is more up to date than Moyes was and yes he has a better squad than Moyes ever has. Then why doesn't he finish higher than the 4th Moyes has finished.

No one will be happier than me if Martinez does the business for Everton.

No one is hounding Howard out of the club either. No player should be immune from being dropped. As I said I think Joel is getting a raw deal.

As I said in the beginning we all want what is best for Everton. I agree with you saying we should get behind the team and give them encouragement. No matter who is selected, Howard or anyone. As I said before the crowd need to get behind the team and make ourselves the 12th player to spur the team.

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01 Nov 2015 11:06:17
What is it with all this star jumps nonsense!? Christ it was alright for Schmeichel to do star jumps, it's ok for Neuer to do them, it's ok for every single keeper in the world to try to make himself as big as possible in one on one point blank situations, but not Tim!

Honestly guys some of your criticism is beyond ridiculous!

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01 Nov 2015 11:47:26
To place Tim Howard in the same sentence as Neuer and Schmeichel is just embarrassing and clutching at straws to back up your case tbh. On the season so far Howard has been culpable for too many goals and therefore should be sidelined. Managers with balls drop players on form bloody hell even Hazard gets dropped due to poor form even when Chelsea aren't playing well as it is, that's the difference between a manager with balls and a yes man like we have.

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01 Nov 2015 12:11:56
NBTB I am having a healthy discussion on the subject, but because I am being critical of the fans and not Tim or RM you are telling me to calm down. Why?

A few points on your post you said RM inherited Moyes' back 5 and we were great because of that in RM'S first season. Then you said that the following season when 1 of them wasn't playing we started leaking goals. So what? Of course we did, that's what usually happens when you are forced to change things! Also Jags and Coleman were out of form, Stones was injured a lot, and Distin and Alvarez were not good enough any more.

Secondly, you seem to think that if RM can't beat Moyes' 4th then that's proof that he is not as good as Moyes. But times are different mate. In the past there were 4 teams challenging Top 4 so only one of them had to have a bad season for someone to break in. Now there is City and Chelsea spending millions, Arsenal, Liverpool, Utd. and perhaps even Spurs that's 6 so it's much more difficult.

Thirdly, you say no one is hounding Tim out of the club. But that's exactly what ye are doing. Ye are demanding that he is dropped and when RM doesn't do it you are tearing him apart and calling him an arrogant, foreign, clueless manager! How childish is that! Even though he sees them every day and therefore has every right to make the call he thinks is best based on what they do in training every day.

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01 Nov 2015 12:18:17
bluegray it's not clutching at straws it is just highlighting how sad some of your criticism is. Tim has been poor on crosses that's a valid point but all this star jump nonsense is exactly that nonsense! And shows that you my friend are using anything to back your point up that Tim should be dropped. Almost every keeper will try to make himself as big as possible in those situations!

But somehow that's another reason to drop Tim! Who's clutching at straws again!?

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01 Nov 2015 12:20:45
OH BTW bluegray exactly how does RM not dropping Tim make RM a 'yes' man? Who exactly is he saying yes to?

Honestly guys you're just getting more and more ridiculous with every comment!

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01 Nov 2015 12:22:58
Never seen Never or Schmeichel star jump over the ball as it goes under him and in to the back of the net. I suggest you watch Tim play aflm, blind loyalty is a dangerous thing.

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01 Nov 2015 12:35:22
I watch him play every week Swan. Has he been poor YES! But not as poor as people are suggesting. The point is whether he should be dropped right now when we have already have so many changes in the back 4. And I think the answer is No.

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01 Nov 2015 12:53:41
Experience is irrelevant, whoever is on form should play. He's costing us points every game now. The back four are not confident with him, he will do more damage than good.

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01 Nov 2015 12:54:18
Nail on the head with that comment swan hence why I said putting 2 world class keepers in the same bracket is embarrassing. And the yes man comment is for the fact he is afraid to drop his favourites on form which is how it should be.

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01 Nov 2015 13:08:15
blue do you understand the meaning of a yes man? Because not dropping his favs has nothing to do with being a yes man. Guys don't forget our 2nd keeper is Joel not Big Nev. I like Joel but he has hardly been convincing in most of the games he has played. So yes when you have two keepers around the same level experience does come into it!

blue the point was that all keepers do it even the best keepers in the world, there is nothing ridiculous or embarrassing about that point. But you are so against Tim now that you just read things as you want to.

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01 Nov 2015 13:24:42
Aflm78, the point was that when Martinez changed the back 5 from the good set up Moyes had it was for the worst. Martinez still hasn't established a back 5 yet.

You need to calm down because as I said we all want what's best for the club. We are not plucking these comments out of the air or making stuff up. There is good reason for the comments people are making. There's not too many backing what your saying.

All them teams were challenging for top 4 under Moyes. Its not just since Martinez took over. I've said Martinez has a better squad using Moyes as a base. So can he not improve things? He finished last season in 11th with a better squad. When is the last time we finished 11th or lower under Moyes?

It's no harder now for Martinez than it was for Moyes. Moyes was very organised and hard to beat.

Excuse me aflm78, when have I called Martinez arrogant, foreign and clueless?! Never, so stop making things up. I'm not writing anything embarrassing. Just commenting on what most people seem to agree on.

So seein that experience is a big thing Rom will dropped and Naismith or Kone will be the lone striker? No didn't think so, Martinez has the advantage of seeing the players every day.

Lets hope he makes decisions that will help the team and club. After all after Martinez said he inherited a good squad and financially sound club, it was him that said he could get us into champions league.

No one else said that. Martinez did, I never put him down at all and have praised him plenty. What I will also do is hold him to what he promised when he took over. Fair play to him if he does it. No one happier than me if he does. End of this season will give us a proper reading of where we are under Martinez.

Next season there will be no Moyes team etc. It will be all Martinez and until then we won't know if he's taking the club in the right direction. Until then its all speculation which everyone is free to do.

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01 Nov 2015 14:32:53
NBTB so City were challenging top 4 when Moyes made top 4!? Hmm don't think so.

Also have you ever heard of the 'you' meaning people in general? You do speak English right? I even wrote 'ye' several times to try to make it clearer for you (that would be you specifically this time), so don't accuse me of making things up!

These are all comments or insults that have been directed at RM on this site in recent weeks. Not by you personally but I never said that so perhaps you should calm down. I don't care if no one on this site agrees with me. RM does and guess what he is the paid professional. Not the armchair expert like the rest of us!

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01 Nov 2015 14:42:39
And there it is aflm a ball in front of him in the 6 yard box. rooted to his goal line. Liability

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01 Nov 2015 16:14:46
lol imo aflm is right for now howard should keep his place new goalkeeper is a must for next season though stupid last post bluegray can't blame howard for that one had a decent game today.

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01 Nov 2015 16:24:18
? Not his fault sorry!

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01 Nov 2015 16:51:05
I never said City were challenging Everton for top 4 when Everton finished in top 4. I said under Moyes City were challenging for top 4 which they were in Moyes latter years. Newcastle more so in Moyes early years along with all six you pointed out are challenging for it now. They all were when Moyes was there pretty much from the beginning. Its no harder for Martinez now than it was for Moyes. It was good fortune the club were in a financial situation where they could buy Lukaku, £28m.

Why was that? Because of Moyes management over 11 years. Martinez had nothing to do with Everton being able to afford that. When Moyes took over he could barely spend 2m never mind 28m. When he left Everton that's the situation he left them in. A very financially sound club with a decent squad. Miles better than when he took over.

So we all are not entitled to our opinion because Martinez knows it all. I'm never going to get a job managing a premiership team. Martinez is the expert. Doesn't make him an instint success. Again I'm not putting him down if people accuse me of that.

I'm delighted with how Martinez has put this squad together. The win today was brilliant. In general aflm78 I agree with not giving players a hard time.

I stood up for Kone, Clev and even McGeady on this site manys a time. Why people gave out about Kone I'll never know. He gets injured and plays a handful of games in-between injuries and all of a sudden he was crap. Now he is flying thank god.

Clev, I think people just heard other people giving out about him and jumped on the band wagon. Done what seemed to be fashionable at the time and gave out bout him. They are not doing it now.

McGeady unlike the other 2 mentioned above hasn't had the chance to redeem himself. I stood by Clev and Kone when people were giving them dogs abuse. McGeady however I think will never get the chance to reinvent himself. Which is a shame. Not a bad player who had bad luck. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

Howard however is a different story and is declining. As I said before I wouldn't dare boo him. That is disrespectful. I repeatedly said he was a good signing and was a good keeper. Sadly the time comes when a player is finished.

I'm saying this from an armchair, if I'm wrong, good I'll be happy to eat my humble pie. If I'm not, god help us all that Martinez didn't pick up on it.

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01 Nov 2015 17:12:59
Cobyone that is 4 goals in 3 games which has been scored in the six yard box. I may be mistaken. Not Howards fault.

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01 Nov 2015 18:01:59
Keeper of his 'experience' should be collecting balls across his 6 yard box

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01 Nov 2015 18:06:10
Exactly bluegray87.

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01 Nov 2015 19:59:52
Only said today's goal was not his fault far from it :)

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