Everton Banter Archive October 02 2016

 

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02 Oct 2016 19:20:01
So spurs show today that City aren't invincible and Pep isn't the second coming, don't get me wrong it will be a tough game but if we do what the manager wants and that is to press the ball and not give them space then I feel we could come away with something.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

02 Oct 2016 20:46:32
so do I.

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03 Oct 2016 11:07:08
They have a better team than us. They ave creativity in midfield, and attack with pace. It's time to take a reality check here. We have recently lost to Norwich, lost to Bournmouth, and drew with Crystal Palace (a game we should have lost) . So to think we will get anything out of this game baffles me.

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03 Oct 2016 11:18:30
Yes they have a better team then us but maybe they don't have pessimistic fans like us who just go looking for the negatives constantly. Liverpool have a better team than Burnley but lost 2 nil, United have a better team than Stoke but only managed a draw yesterday, so to use that statement to write us of before a ball is kicked is irrelevant. Try focusing on being supportive and getting behind the team home or away and if we act like a twelfth man it can help the players to raise their game. My original point was that Spurs gave us an insight into how to counter Peps tactics and if we do this right as a team we can come away with something. I'm not saying oh we are great and are going there to win 3-0. Seriously do think we have the most pessimistic 'supporters' in the country.

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03 Oct 2016 13:30:10
Maybe we just have supporters who are realists. I've watched my club for enough years now to see what level we are at, and to put a real insight into the two games you mentioned. Both teams missed a hat full of chances and should have won comfortably. But your right they didn't. So would I be happy to watch us get battered but come away with a draw? No. If that happens then deluded supporters will again think we are going to finish top four, and we are not. Negative? No, just a realist.

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03 Oct 2016 13:56:39
I get both sides of this discussion. At the beginning of the season someone on here said to me Spurs were mediocre. My reply was basically that Man City and Spurs would be the top 2. So Spurs beating them is not a surprise. We do have a tough run of fixtures now, but I am more confident with this manager and set of players than I was with last season's.

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03 Oct 2016 14:42:58
I am also a realist and don't believe we will be top 4, I would be happy with top 8 this season as it is our transition season. I still believe we have the players to go to City and actually win, they will not be as compact as other teams have been against us namely your Norwich and Bournemouth and even Palace as you mentioned and as good as they are going forward they are suspect at the back with Otamendi and Stones who we all know is prone to mistakes when under pressure. The fullbacks are not great either and are not better than what we dealt with against Spurs and I feel they will not like Bolasie and hopefully Mirallas running at them. We are not as poor as them games suggest. We are a work in progress and will get better with each training session and hopefully that will show on the pitch. Would I be happy with a point away to City? Yes, do I feel that's all we should hope for? No. Do I feel we will get a hiding? No. Do I think we will lose? Maybe. We have a 2 week break to regroup and go again.

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03 Oct 2016 15:08:51
So city are a poor side with poor defenders. Remind me where are they in the league?

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03 Oct 2016 15:12:53
We've been in transition for about five years now. Unless of course you mean transition phase two.

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03 Oct 2016 15:17:02
I didn't say they are a poor side I said they are suspect at the back. They have plenty of attacking flair going forward but there back line can be suspect at times.

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03 Oct 2016 15:19:30
We where in decline under Martinez we are now in transition under Koeman.

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03 Oct 2016 15:22:53
Have to admit I know Twoold2 and knew his old man. Think they where there when Goodison was built. But believe you won't find any other colour blood but blue in their veins. Guys just saying it how he sees it.

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03 Oct 2016 16:12:35
Exactly milomj.

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03 Oct 2016 16:37:24
Twoold, your post does come across as pessimistic mate. There is no such thing as a dead cert win in this league, believe me I have the betting slips as proof! But the OP is correct, we are in transition this season as we have a new manager who hasn't got the players in that he wants to drive us forward. That, as RK says, could take a couple of transfer windows. Changes will happen and hopefully they will be for the better.
City aren't infallible, as the spuds showed us yesterday. With, as Bluegray said, the right tactics there is no reason why we can't get anything from the game. I'd rather go into the match thinking we can get at least a point rather than expecting to be beaten.

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03 Oct 2016 16:48:54
And that spudv was the point I was trying to get across, that we should not go there with an inferiority complex and negative tactics just because on paper they are better than us. They have weaknesses as do we but I will go there with optimism knowing that we have a man at the helm who actually has tactical nouse about him when it comes to playing the top sides, let's not forget they have conceded 5 goals in there last 2 games and that is why I stated they are suspect at the back.

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03 Oct 2016 17:30:11
Twoold is absolutely right. I've never seen a team with supposedly lesser players win any football match ever. Never. Never ever.

Show me some evidence and and I'll admit we could actually beat or draw against City.

Does anyone know what score it was for Celtic against city in the CL recently?

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03 Oct 2016 18:12:36
BlueJohnUns I'm assuming that is sarcasm πŸ˜‚.

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03 Oct 2016 18:16:33
That's true look at Norwich and Bournmouth. They managed it. So yes your probably all right and I'm wrong. Only time will tell.

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03 Oct 2016 18:25:55
There is no right or wrong Twoold2 it's all about opinions and football will always split opinions.

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03 Oct 2016 20:48:52
On that we agree bluegray πŸ‘.

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03 Oct 2016 21:27:26
Look no further than Leicester City over a season, take a look at weekend results, Man Utd, Man City, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, not one of those teams won over the weekend, and against lesser teams, maybe that might give you a little belief that lesser teams can beat or hold the bigger teams Bluejohnuns.

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04 Oct 2016 09:16:45
To regard City as some kind of 'masterclass' of unbeatable superior race of footballers is just crazy because as John has cheekily alluded to Celtic etc. .

Pep will make mistakes, especially in the PL Spurs e. g. and giving up hope before a ball has been kicked in anger so to speak is defeatism and defeatism is a contagious disease in my book!

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04 Oct 2016 10:04:15
Football is between 22 people on a field. It's not the players on that pitch that gets the result. It's the preperation, confidence in delivering the tactics chosen and then execution that gets you the result.

As an example Eddie Howe had tactics and a plan when they played City BUT in his pre match conference all he did was talk about how amazing city were and how great Pep was. It was embarrassing. That took away the confidence and belief from the players that they could get a result. They got beat 4-0.

Show respect but don't make out they are some unstoppable force. Pep has won most of these games on reputation rather than any mystical, immovable force he possesses.

The best managers are managers that have a plan and the ability to get the players to understand how to deliver it. Then the 30 minutes before kick to give the players confidence and motivation in execution it on the day. I believe Koeman can do this.

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04 Oct 2016 10:38:29
Well said BlueJohnUns. I am not a Pep fan tbh and don't buy into this big love in of how great he is. He hasn't really built a side from scratch and achieved great things in football, he was Barcelona manager where as long as you finished above Madrid you won the league and that was with players that were mainly blooded by Rijkaard. He then went to Bayern were again they are expected to win the league because of the financial clout and now onto City again to a team with already superior players and an open cheque book. So is he a great manager because of what he has won? He didn't win the Champions League with Bayern which is the most competitive competition they faced as there league is weak, will he win it with City? I can't see it this season, that's just my opinion though. If we go to them and get in there faces they will not like it and we can unsettle them.

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04 Oct 2016 15:12:00
Well said bluegray. eventually someone who feels the same about Pep as I do. He took over two huge clubs in their domestic league that are expected to win week in and week out. The same as Jose (apart from his time at Porto) . what next, Brendan Rodgers is class because he should lead Celtic to win the league.

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02 Oct 2016 16:48:38
Cowpat Sid in response to your post on the 30th Sept. Which 3-5 players would I move to make places for new signings.

I'll list the players I think are the weak link or look like not getting much of a chance at this stage. Imho they are Kone, Niasse, Robles, Cleverly, Lennon and Gibson.

Definitely Kone and Niasse have to go. Robles looks like he is not rated. No point him staying so. Prob better letting him go and signing a top keeper in his place. Lennon I also feel won't get any chance. That's 4 I would definitely move on.

Cleverly and Gibson would be the least out of the six i named above I would like to see moved on. Cleverly is not a bad player to have. He is versatile and can do a decent job. I've never slagged him off and think he is an average / decent player. I just think its best for all for him to move on. Provided we would get an improvement of a replacement. Barry won't be around for much longer and will be missed. So we need a similar player in.

Gibson I would prefer to stay but what is the freakin point. He's always injured. I stood up for him right up until the beginning of this season saying we should keep him and that I was happy he got a new contract.

What happens less than a month into the new season? He's out injured. No point having him take up a place in the squad when he is always unavailable for selection.

Them 6 I would move out. Obviously provided we get other players in. Don't want to be left too thin. The 3 loanees of McGeady, Garbutt and Galloway will return. For me Galloway is the only one worth holding onto. Garbutt doesn't seem to be doing well on his loan. If he's not playing out of his skin in the championship he won't make it in the premiership. McGeady for obvious reasons.

Galloway takes up one of the six places. The other five I would like to see a keeper, RB, CM and striker took in. For the final spot either another striker or attacking midfielder would help things imo.

That would only be a start. I would expect a minimum of 2 transfer windows to get that much players in or out. Whether there is changes needed in Jan or not I can't see many being made. Jan is always a quite transfer window and signings rarely work out when signed in Jan. Probably the worst signings in recent history Niasse and McGeady were Jan buys.

How many would you let go Sid?

Believable1 Unbelievable2

03 Oct 2016 00:12:50
If - and only if - we have better replacement forwards to come in, I'd let Kone and Niasse go in January. We must have backup for Lukaku.
If we can get a 'keeper, then I'd let Robles go.
We'll need backups in January for Gueye and Bolasie because of the African Cup of Nations and I'm not sure if our current ones are really good enough, so I can see a midfielder (McCarthy or Gibson? ) and a winger (Lennon? ) being moved out to create space in the squad for replacements.
There are very few players whose squad places are secure - even Barkley and Deulofeu have to prove themselves.
Next summer's transfer window will be most telling imho.

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03 Oct 2016 02:12:26
What seems a bit odd, givern his injury record, is that Gibson was givern a 2 year contract. When fit, he can play a bit, but he seems unable to remain match fit for 2 games at a time, and then seems to be unavilable for weeks, sadley this is nothing new, and why I find it hard to understand the contract when it ran out last summer!

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03 Oct 2016 07:48:17
If he gets fit I can see Gibson moving in January to a Sunderland or Hull to help with there relegation battle so maybe get 1-2 million for him. It will be tough to get a decent playmaker and striker in January unless the players demand a move themselves. Think the summer will be when we see a mass clear out and Koemans incoming players that he and Walsh agree on.

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03 Oct 2016 09:08:28
NBTB The first posting on this by you lists 6 players you would move on. 5 of the 6 were Martinez signings. Then you add in McGeady. Another Martinez signing. This is exactly why I was banging on about the poor quality of Martinez signings over the last 18 months. tough fixture list coming up over the next 2 months. We will see how we are progressing then.

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03 Oct 2016 10:27:15
Yes Degsy 5 of them signed by Martinez. Cleverly is 50:50 whether to move on or not. That leaves 4. Lennon wasn't a failure really just can't see him getting much game time. With the squad to hopefully continually improve I suspect his chances to get even more limited. Cleverly on a free and Lennon for Β£4.5m. Can't really give out about them too much. Tell me how many Martinez signings has been sold up until now Degsy?

You do realise no matter how good or who the manager is they are going to sign players that turn out to be a success. No manager is exempt from that. Even the most successful manager for the last few decades Sir Alex.

Again I'll ask you how many Martinez signings have been sold so far?

You are very quick to point out the signings that are failings under Martinez. You don't bother to mention the good signings he done.

For anyone that is not used to my posts or reading it for the first time I'm very far from a fan of Martinez. Never wanted him here in the first place. But I'm not ignorant enough to think every little thing he done was bad. His signings were not bad imho.

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03 Oct 2016 23:17:49
Not trying towind you up mate NBTB. but I will answer your question about how many Martinez signings have been sold. not many. Because that is our current squad minus a few new ones in. But you even say we need to get ridof 5 or 6 so we are in agreement. I will also now mention the good signings that he has made. ie ones that improved on players he was replacing: list = Lukaku. Ok maybe I am being a bit harsh. I think Mori has potential but of all the others he signed I can list a bigger list of poor signings and a small list of either players with potential or simply not good enough.

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04 Oct 2016 13:53:35
Barry as good as Lukaku imo. Only differ is Barry is old and doesn't score many goals. My point Degsy is no matter who the manager is your going to have bad signings or ones that don't work out. Even happened to Alex Ferguson plenty of times.

That's why there is a constant flow of players in and out. We are upgrading in a way. It seems the day of looking for free players or low cost players are gone. Martinez was restricted to that. Love him or loathe him that's what he had to do.

Seems we can afford a more expensive type player now. Not making excuses for Martinez by the way. I'd be in the loathing category there.

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04 Oct 2016 20:32:40
Agreed. I suppose we got used to the Seamus and Stones signing type. ie bought on the very cheap. Even Jags when you think 4 million and 9 years service. I hope we get the mixture of youth, cheap signings and expensive signings right and go on to better things. that's what will bring success. not just expensive signings. Leicester City have given me hope that things can change and we are in the right position to have a go. It will be an interesting season.

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04 Oct 2016 22:58:42
I agree with that post Degsy! Also agree with you on Spurs. Can't believe people were writing them off from winning the premiership. Won't be one bit surprised if they do.

I always said scoring goals wins you games, not letting goals in wins you trophy's. Spurs surely do know how to defend.

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05 Oct 2016 21:25:31
They are in the fortunate position that I am hoping we will have unearthing a young center forward. As well as many good signings . But I think City will take things forwards too. Two very good squads with depth. Ours is better too now so I am hoping for top half. I think we will have to over perform to get near top 6 though. With some luck.

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05 Oct 2016 22:14:49
Early days Degsy. Too early to make an informed judgement. At the end of the year we should have a better idea where we stand and where we will be at the end of the season.

It will go up and down like a yo-yo until then. A couple of weeks ago most were predicting top 4 or top 6. Now after dropping a good few points most are predicting top 8 at best. Peoples prediction goes with how we are doing at the time.

Personally I think 7th at worst is where we will finish. Not many will agree with that at the moment. If we go on a winning streak most will be back saying it or better. That's the way it goes I suppose.

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06 Oct 2016 13:15:56
Like I said, I will be happy with top half after last season's debacle. As you of all people know. I had us predicted to go down. and I still stood by that until the signings by Koeman. that's when things started to improve.

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02 Oct 2016 01:59:25
Okay, the good:

1. 7 weeks in and top 6
2. 2nd least number of goals allowed
3. No major injuries in the XI (just tweaks)
4. Not really missing John Stones
5. Play looks a lot better than last year
6. Attitude a lot better than last year
7. RK doesn't say "phenomenal".

Now the bad.

1. We've played no one but the Spurs
2. Already tossed out of the EPL Cup
3. Rom is half our goals
4. Ross is lost

Still better than last year, averaging 2 points a game. Keep up the pace and 76 points. Enough for 2nd last year.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

02 Oct 2016 10:33:25
1. 7 weeks in and top 6 πŸ‘
2. 2nd least number of goals allowed πŸ‘
3. No major injuries in the XI (just tweaks) πŸ‘
4. Not really missing John Stones πŸ‘
5. Play looks a lot better than last year πŸ‘
6. Attitude a lot better than last yearπŸ‘
7. RK doesn't say "phenomenal". πŸ‘

Now the bad. ---How about not so good, instead 🀷

1. We've played no one but the Spurs ---Right now everyone is someone I'm afraid . . this will improve with time πŸ˜‘
2. Already tossed out of the EPL Cup ---Maybe a blessing in disguise πŸ˜₯
3. Rom is half our goals ---A time for others to step up and earn their keep methinks 😑
4. Ross is lost ---Yes the clock is ticking and RK will have to do some serious man management here! πŸ€”

All in all New Blue this 2/ 3 yr project has just begun by the end of it I truly believe we will be a very formidable outfit indeed πŸ˜‚.

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02 Oct 2016 11:38:31
Good post New Blue in the U and an even better post Blue247.

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02 Oct 2016 17:45:54
Why are we all slagging Ross off, none of our midfield look that good. As for the top 6 we've not played anyone other than spurs yet.

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