Everton Banter Archive December 29 2017

 

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29 Dec 2017 22:27:49
So speaking to the more realistic Evertonians (no not you GB and GT) , what do we think needs to change to make us more productive in front of goal?

Is it just a striker with Tosun looking the likely character? Or do we think it's more than just him? Are our current crop of wide men enough and is Yanick ready or will he need more time even a month or so to really get back to his best?

Also do we have a left back at the club to fill Baines or is it a must fill position?

Finally what does Sam need to do to get us playing up top (no need to comment GB and GT, we know what you think) ? Change of formation or personel? In a game tomorrow where the opposition like to have the ball is the same type of football going to leave us with little opportunities again?

Please no praising or slaying from anyone about the manager. Let's talk about football for a change.

Believable4 Unbelievable2

29 Dec 2017 23:34:35
I think it is probably a mix things:

1. Getting 1 or 2 fresh players in (coming from either our long term injuries, a new face, our young potential, or our players who haven't adapted to the Premier League yet) . Probably late Jan before that is in place.

2. Continuing to develop our confidence as a squad with the momentum that we have built recently. With that confidence should come a little more ambition from the players on the pitch and also in the way we set up tactically for the games. Again probably still a few weeks away possibly longer depending on how the Man Utd, Liverpool and Spurs games go.

3. Some more time on the training pitch so Allardyce can work on our attacking play which probably doesn't really come until after the busy christmas period is out the way.

4. A run of winnable games against the teams we can realistically compete with. That probably comes mid feb to mid march - Crystal Palace, Watford, Burnley, Brighton, Stoke. There is also at least a week in between each of those games so there is plenty of time to prepare tactically for each one.

I would say other than in late Jan against WBA at home where I would be really disappointed if we are as bad as the last game and possibly also against Leicester at home we are probably looking at mid feb before we can realistically expect to see tangible improvements to our attacking play.

I don't particularly think Paul Merson is a footballing genius but his quote about our game against Bournemouth tomorrow generally sums up how we are seen at the moment. "You can put Everton down for zero (goals) ".

Hopefully because little improvement until mid feb is what I expect to happen that means the opposite will happen and we will play the reds off the park at Anfield next month and beat them 3-0. The best thing about football are those positive surprises that get thrown up every now and again!

Agree1 Disagree1

30 Dec 2017 00:07:06
I believe we need confidence on the ball all over the field. If 8 games without loosing doesn't bring confidence I don't know what will.

In my opinion we need to get the ball to sigurdsson as often as possible we aren't using him enough an he is having to chase an go looking for the ball. So by the time he gets it he's goosed.

We also need to be sensible at the back but not look to get rid straight away if we have time tar a touch an the sting out the game. That old saying you can't concede if you have the ball. This is something we are not doing enough of.

Our midfield need to get a lot braver and want the ball of defence and Pickford more often and quicker. I never see a midfielder come looking an bouncing the ball of a centre half and moving to open gaps or create space. It's non existent. That's how you create space for players like sigurdsson tiger on the ball.

I'd like garbutt to get the chance but not sure if he's good enough either so for me it's a must fill position.

Tosun I can't comment as I know little about him and don't go about watching YouTube clips they make anyone look great.

I think it's a great post by the way and looking forward to seeing everyone's opinion.

Everton the gear.

Agree3 Disagree1

30 Dec 2017 00:18:45
Jimbobchaddy,

Good post I would agree with all of that and probably add get Rooney on the ball in deep positions too. Also I would like to see some more fluid movement from the attacking players ahead of our midfield to provide a few more options for forward passes which people have to be brave enough to try.

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30 Dec 2017 00:43:51
Great posts blues! šŸ‘šŸ» I hope we get what we want in January sick of drawing with teams who are beatable. This is EVERTON ā€˜Nil satis nisi optimumā€™ nothing less blues I didnā€™t want Sam but I kind of love the man because he says it how all us fans think if u donā€™t want to fight for the shirt. LEAVE. All the best boys and hopefully 2018 is OUR year COYB.

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30 Dec 2017 09:03:01
BlueJ. The defence seems to have realised what their job is, CB seems to be covered, LB is a concern so get Garbutt registered and maybe A. N. Other to come in. Certainly need an addition to Siguurdson to enable that transition from defence to attack and finally somehow, somewhere (in January! ) we need to find a beast of a striker, that done and I can well see Calvert playing off his shoulder.

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30 Dec 2017 09:15:11
I'm a little concerned we will need another striker who has had time in the EPL as with what's happened with Sandro could be similar to Tosun. He seems a bit more agressive than Sandro but still he's got to get used to over here.

We can't just play with Sig and DLC we need more attacking threat and whereas Lennon has done really well defensively he doesn't have enough threat going forward. Yanick is back but looks a good month or so away for me. So I think more pace needs to come into the club.

Not sure about Nzonzi. 29 and with talk of 25 plus for him seems a bit much for me. He's coped well in Spain where he gets time on the ball. However, he never set the world alight when he was here the first time around. Plus we have a lot of midfielders already at the club. If we do bring him in I'd say Besic, McCarthy, Snids and Barkley all need to go. I like Snids and Barkley but I think the fans have washed their hands of them. Usually the time to go when that happens.

Before Sam I would have said we need a left back that drives forward but that isn't how Sam plays. He likes his back 4 or 5 to stay back and defend. So I'm not sure what we do here. I think the fans want a Baines of the past who can do that but will be disappointed when not allowed to move forward as much. So Shaw for me who I don't think is that great, will be the wrong option. I'm not sure who fits the bill here.

Tactics wise we just need to be calmer on the ball and not autokick up the field. Play some football on the deck, get the ball to Sig, Rooney and Yanick instead of direct to DLC everytime. Plus as Sam said yesterday, start playing the attacking football before he came to the club. If he can marry his defensive organisation to that he might be onto a winner.

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30 Dec 2017 10:09:17
Nzonzi is one of those very effective ball winners. In the air and on the ground. In some ways very similar to Fellaini. If we are after him, I can't see Gana in the team long term. He is also one you can chuck up front with 15 mins to go if necessary. I would be surprised if he came to us. I also think some of our fans don't want that sort of player. but can we turn into a footballing Man City without signing the expensive sort of players they have? As much as I preach football and condemn "hoofing" it, when you don't have the players capable, then needs must.

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30 Dec 2017 10:47:46
Spurs are a good example of a good mix between counter attacking play and possession football.

They kept to their footballing phylosophy and developed the players over time.

I'm hoping we follow this path rather than the short term fix.

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29 Dec 2017 22:21:20
Never said they are all defenders Sam jus has them playing like them 5 across the back don't hate Sam just detest his style of play if you like it that's your perogative but previous evidence of his past club says it all he' up players to keep us up then leave us with complete dross just look at the state of his previous clubs just when do you think they will recover. One realistic effort on target in the last two games. No need for insults though let's just be realistic about the situation now and in the future. By the way do you think we recovered after selling Trevor Steven and Garry Stevens to Rangers in the eighties lost great players and then mainly brought in rubbish not every one but most of them that's what Sam will do he always does.

Believable2 Unbelievable3

30 Dec 2017 10:25:24
No insults from me mate. but big disagreements. some of your comments don't make sense. You say one realistic effort in 2 games. Fair enough. But look at the 8 games since the man took over. Then compare to the 8 games prior to that. 28 goals conceded and 2 scored. Last 8 games we have improved no end. Unfortunately, your analogy of Tricky Trev and Gary Stevens does not wash with me. We don't have those 2 playing to lose in the 1st place. so how are they relevant? I just say give the bloke a chance rather than getting on his back and constant criticism. We are supporters and whilst we are paying customers and can expect certain standards, those standards are down right now due to previous mis management and nothing to do with Allergy. He has improved defence (14 times fewer goals conceded) He has improved goals scored (14 times more scored) . And this was in a fixture list that included Liverpool and Chelsea. It also included our first away win in 12 months. I suspect if we had brought in an open minded manager with a will to play open exciting football, with the players available, we would either be 3rd from bottom (exactly where we were when he arrived) or lower. So moan about the standard of football by all means. but my priority as a supporter was points on the board and he has delivered that and looks like we may be another season in this league. Yes it is dogs of war. But hey I don't hear many moaning about winning the FA Cup in 95 with Joe Royles dogs of war!

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30 Dec 2017 10:45:25
Very good post that Degsy.

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30 Dec 2017 10:32:29
I agree with your point that Allardyce has sacrificed attacking effectiveness for defensive solidity at the moment but in fairness in the short term that is what we needed to do and he has achieved it fantastically well.

He will need to bring back some balance into the way he sets his teams up starting with when we play the weaker teams first. I would like to have seen that against WBA but he obviously feels we are not ready to do that yet. I think he can achieve that in the next couple months and I think he will do that as I think he knows he has to otherwise he won't be in a job after the summer.

I can see the argument both ways for life after Big Sam in the various clubs he has been at. Yes they do tend to struggle after he has gone and they are generally left in a pretty bad way moving forward but he was in a position where all that mattered (and all he was employed to do) was short term survival so he wasn't trying to build something more sustainable. He was only interested in players that could help him grind out points against the weaker teams to avoid relegation (or short term loans for a bit of quality) because that is all he was employed to do and probably it was also the only types of players who would go to a team in a relegation scrap. I think the clubs failures after he leaves is more because the clubs were selling all out in the short term than anything specifically Big Sam related.

In our position that is what Steve Walsh as a Director of Football is for - to prevent a collapse when a manager goes by ensuring that the players bought and developed are not purely short term manager choices but have a longer term focus and can provide a sustainable foundation for any manager coming in.

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30 Dec 2017 11:03:39
Degsy you're totally wrong about the dogs of war. We played good football with Royle. We just battled hard in every game. There is no comparison between the two at all in playing style.

He new when to battle hard and when to let the team express itself. He was also very brave but more than anything he got us attacking with the ball on the ground and used wingers in the right way to attack instead of the direct ball upfront all game.

Take a look at the semi-final and final and see where the ball comes from most of the time!

If you know your history!

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30 Dec 2017 11:56:49
BJU I accept what you say. about the dogs of war scenario. probably not my best example. but you can only do what your squad permits. Look at our squad and you will see we don't have 2 wingers at the mo who seem capable of holding onto the ball and certainly no center forward. Yes part of it is due to his tactics. Part is also due to the age of this very young set of players. but the main part is due to the mismanagement over the last couple of transfer windows and an over reliance of one particular goalscorer who we then sold. I was having discussions on here 2 years ago saying that it concerned me that we were either signing players at the end of their career (eg Barry Williams) or at the start of their careers (eg Lookman DCL) I also pointed out that the players Martinez was signing were players who had very low goal to game ratios throughout their careers and only Mirallas, Mori and of course Lukaku scored above average goals for their positions. Lennon, McCarthy, Barry, Bolasie, Schneiderlin, Martina, Gueye and Besic are all players who have scored very few goaals in their established careers. I know I got on a lot of peoples nerves by repeating myself. but I could see it happening and the proof has been in the pudding. Some players are natural goalscorers and some are not. We have missed Seamus' goals and Baines come to that. We never replaced Arteta. The problems we have now are not just down to tactics. we need players capable of running at defenders and carrying the ball out. Our midfielders are poor at that. A lot of sideways football and hoof it football is the result of a poor quality squad as much as tactics.

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29 Dec 2017 21:44:07
What's all the angst. We are crap as are the 'other' 14 outside of the top six (even the other 5 from that top 6 aren't great! Or even good! ) . We've won 1 trophy in 30yrs and from recollection played 3 seasons or so of decent football in that time.

Lets all give Sam a little time. The squad has basically Moyes back four STILL and we've lost our best striker and most creative midfielder (nearly) . Big job. let's see if Big Sam can do it.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

29 Dec 2017 22:14:05
Very true mate. Only one really good side in this league, and itā€™s likely to stay that way for some time. Best we could ever hope for right now is a decent cup run sadly.

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29 Dec 2017 23:59:16
I think you are spot on with our only hope being a decent cup run in the next few years but I don't think there is only one really good side in this league, I think that is an over reaction to what we are seeing this year.

I think there is one unbelievably and historically good side in this league this year and then behind them 4/ 5 other really good sides.

Man Utd topped their Champions League group. Chelsea came second in theirs and above Athletico Madrid. Liverpool topped their Champions League Group and Tottenham topped theirs above Real Madrid and Broussia Dortmund. Arsenal are inconsistent but on their day can be really good and got through their Europa League group with ease half the time playing their second 11.

I think the all those sides would challenge for the title in most of the leagues across Europe which in my eyes makes them very good sides.

Last year Chelsea were pretty dominant, this year City. Things have changed among the top sides in the league pretty quickly in recent years. Yes City are head and shoulders above the rest right now but that doesn't mean the other top sides are not very really good teams.

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29 Dec 2017 21:35:52
Wow. Big Sam certainly has the posters on here split. It makes great reading for us fans who are firmly on the fence. I say let's be a little patient with the guy, let's make the big decisions about whether he will be in charge next season in the summer. By the summer he should have us solid in defence with some kind of attacking impetus as well. I don't expect him to have us as world beaters by the summer but, we will know then in our hearts whether he is the man to manage us next season.
This decision cannot be taken after a handful of games, we cannot turn into a Palace or Leeds. We need to be behind the manager until he has been given enough time to give us the results and style of play us Evertonians like. If when the time comes he isn't up to scratch then he can go but until them let's have a bit of calm and enjoy the rest of the season.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

29 Dec 2017 21:42:29
good post mate.

Agree1 Disagree2

29 Dec 2017 21:56:36
Ditto mate.

Agree1 Disagree2

30 Dec 2017 09:56:21
I don't think it's as split as you think. Take me as an example. I think he's done a good job. Not brilliant and unbelievable like GB and GT as the football being served up is pretty dire .

However, I want him to succeed because what matters to me is seeing the club win games and more importantly win trophies again.

I will give him plenty of time as long as I see us improving. I'll support him and his management team, along with every player pulling on the shirt.

So when he's getting results AND playing football like we should expect at a top FOOTBALLING club then I'll type the 5 year contract myself these two high on sugar kids want to give him.

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30 Dec 2017 10:53:47
BJU with the tools he has had at his disposal he has done a brilliant and unbelievable job, given the time span as well. In all honesty I think there are very few managers who could emulate that under the same circumstance. The pundits and the club all think that as well and as such has been documented.

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29 Dec 2017 21:29:56
Refreshing to see so many thumbs up on most of the posts, sense prevailing.

Believable3 Unbelievable4

29 Dec 2017 21:20:25
Oops. Fat fingers. My question to smoke would be, would you rather we played entertaining football and lost or keep it tight and win/ draw games.
Before Sam came In, I said i would take 0-0 up to the window and we have taken far more points than i thought we would have.

Believable1 Unbelievable2

29 Dec 2017 23:11:07
Geoffjohno,

I know the question wasn't to me but hopefully you don't mind someone else answering too. i think it is an interesting question and I am assuming you are talking in the short term right now in the next month or so rather than long term.

Considering our season so far and the problems Allardyce has inherited I personally am happy with keeping it tight against the top 3 quarters of the league at the moment but I want a bit more ambition shown against those bottom 5 or 6 teams when we play them even if it means we lose 1 or 2 of them as I believe we can win our fair share against those worst teams if we show a bit more ambition. After all 1 win and 1 loss is better than 2 draws.

That is why I have been very happy with the majority of what Allardyce has done so far with the exception of how he approached the WBA game. He has started to win me over in a similar way as it sounds like he has with you irrespective of how critical I was of him after the WBA game.

In my opinion the style we develop doesn't have to be entertaining as in open, risky attacking football, I just want to see us more effective with the ball. That can be defend well and then produce effective counter attacking football, effective possession based football choosing to maintain possession as our best form of defence or something in between.

Against the average and better sides developing whatever effective attacking style we decide on will take time on the training pitch, the confidence and ambition to attempt it and probably a couple additions to the squad (a mix of our returning injured players, new players or some of our current new signings fulfilling the potential that was seen in them) .

How much time it takes remains to be seen but I want to see some progress by the end of the season. I think progress would be some effective football with the ball not just without it against the teams outside of the top 6. It doesn't have to be the finished article, just some signs of progress and some good all round performances (rather than just good defensive performances) to build on going into next season. I think Allardyce can deliver that and I expect he will.

If he does deliver that I think he has a shot of keeping his job going into next year depending on whether there are some big name managers out there that Moshiri would want (and could get) in the summer. For that I think Allardyce might need a little bit of luck in the wider manager merry go round as I believe while he has an 18 month contract he is really on a 6 month audition for the long term job while Moshiri feels out his top long term managerial choices behind the scenes.
Before GuernseyBlue and GrumpyToffee have a go at me I am not saying that is what I think should happen, I am saying that is what I think is the situation and where he will stand irrespective of his progress in the summer.

I am not sure if looking longer term was part of your question but I think it is an interesting philosophical question:

There are many ways to play football and my dream would be for us to play like Barcelona/ Man City rather than a Mourinho style but that isn't going to happen anytime soon and may never happen. That said the great counter attacking teams can be really exciting to watch when they defend as a prelude to attacking rather than defending out of necessity because they are not very good with the ball.

Keeping it tight and effective attacking football are not mutually exclusive in the long run. I would argue that to be successful then you have to achieve both. You give Mourinho as an example. Yes his teams defend first and keep it tight but his better teams are also very effective and really dangerous when they have the ball.

The top 5 teams this year are all among the most goals scored and all among the fewest conceded and each have different styles. The one constant is that no matter their style they keep it tight defensively but do it without sacrificing the attacking effectiveness - they have balance.

Yes they are completely out of our league at the moment in terms of squad quality and noone in their right mind would expect Allardyce to be able to deliver that with the current squad no matter how long he gets however that is where we are trying to get to under Moshiri.

If Allardyce is the long term answer that is what he has to deliver in the long term as long as he gets the support from the recruitment staff and the board in providing a squad capable of it. Hopefully they can do that and hopefully he can then deliver.

Unlike the 2 Allardyce fanatics on here, I really don't know whether Allardyce has it in him to do that and I would argue the expectations and resources he will have if he gets the job long term will be a new situation he hasn't found himself in before. He may rise to the challenge, he may not - I genuinely hope he does. i love him in the short term until the end of the season but I haven't made up my mind one way or the other on him in the long term yet.

I think it is an interesting question you pose if you look at it in the longer term because in the long run there is no guarantee that tight boring football will be any more successful for us than attacking risky football as long as we are good at whatever we try to do. If that is the case why not try it the exciting way?

Everyone will have different opinions but I would ask in the long run is finishing 8th with a boring style of football really any better than having a free flowing exciting attacking risky style and finishing 14th? Equally, you could ask the same question about 2nd or 4th, 6th or 7th.

The accountants will certainly prefer the higher position no matter what but as fans if we haven't won the league what does it really matter where we finish if the difference doesn't affect European qualification or relegation?

I would sacrifice the entertainment in the long run if it meant winning some silverwear. I am happy to sacrifice the entertainment to avoid relegation. I am even happy to sacrifice entertainment to get into Europe as that (second to money) is the key to attracting better players. I personally don't think it is worth the sacrifice if it means the difference between a handful of places in the league outside of those situations.

I am so desparate for us to win something if boring horrible football guaranteed us winning the Carabao Cup I would take Jamie Carragher wearing a red suit as manager with Steven Gerrard in a red tracksuit as his assistant and a 1-0 win each game curtesy of an own goal!

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29 Dec 2017 23:36:03
Actually I just took my head for a shake and nothing is worth having Carragher and Gerrard dressed in red as our management team!

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29 Dec 2017 21:18:58
Smokeandmirrors, listen sausage. I was not Sam's biggest fan and I still probably not but anyone with half a brain can see he has stabilised the club and got us points over the last few games. Yes, the football has been stodgy at best but at the end of the day, it is a results business. Arsenal spent years under George Graham winning 1-0 (1-0 to the arsenal was the chant) , Jose mourinho won champs league with inter playing defensively and still does now to some extent.
My ques5ik to you is,

Believable1 Unbelievable1

29 Dec 2017 21:05:30
Why are we getting so many Vitriolic posters on here all of a sudden, is it they can't stand the idea that Big Sam is doing a really good job at Everton, can't for the life of me understand that, even the Sam haters on here must realise that he has done what he was brought in for by Mr Moshiri, now surely he will be rewarded with a long contract, seven games only two goals conceded, what a turnaround,

Believable4 Unbelievable3

29 Dec 2017 21:18:41
Didnt we do that with RM and now you wanna do it again?
Maybe after 8 games you need to also take a chill pill and stop talking about long contracts or r you sammy lee?
You want people to stop voicing concerns and their own opinions and just give Sam a long contract that will cost us another 15-20m if it goes wrong? Behave yaself.

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29 Dec 2017 21:23:43
Cant agree mate, Big Sam has come in and stabilised the Club, without him we would have been in Dire Straits, at the end of the day its all about opinions mate.

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29 Dec 2017 21:41:46
Heā€™s done nothing more than what was expected of him. Thatā€™s not worth a contract extension. Heā€™s not going anywhere soon so we can just stay calm and see if he can improve on a very good start to his Everton career. Heā€™s not going to leave and there isnā€™t a higher profile club out there in need of him either. Thereā€™s no need to fold the minute the cards are dealt.

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30 Dec 2017 10:57:58
Toffee Ace,

You say he has done nothing that was not expected of him.

Had the previous 2 managers done that then we would not be having this chat, he is the only one out of three who has done that. For that reason alone I think he should be given the same chance as those last 2 managers had.

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29 Dec 2017 20:05:24
Grumpy toffee have you gone completly insane top four finish next season just how many players do you think we need for that and at what cost, also you people listing players who are not recognised as defenders look at where they are asked to perform under this guy, your dreamers wearing heavily tinted blue specticals I'm all for loyaty but for heavens sake some of you need to get real. Big Sam uses a tractor when a small trowel is better, agricultrual by definition and has always been, as a player and manager, sorry if I upset some of you but the facts are the facts nice to have points on the board but the football is trash and we will never recover.

Believable5 Unbelievable5

29 Dec 2017 20:22:40
Calm down mate the post below is one you would do well to read, football is a game of opinions isn't it.

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29 Dec 2017 20:44:34
Mirrors,
Sit down take a few deep breaths and relax you will get an ulcer at this rate.

Never is a big word in meaning and saying we will never recover is just absurd. 8 games no defeats what is there to recover? So we don't play the most attractive football but the point you miss is we are getting results, what's so bad about that?

I get you hate Sam, I get the fact that no matter what he does will not make you happy but to say we will never recover is just a very childish statement to make. Give me just one reason why you have all this hate for him?

Out of those players listed name one who was told to become a defender, not to help out, as that is expected of every player in every soccer team in the world, but one player who has been told they are now defenders.

Does it matter what the cost of bringing in new players that would help us achieve our dreams? No it doesn't as long as we get there and despite all your bitchin and crying Sam will get us there maybe just before his gets the contract extension or maybe just after.

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29 Dec 2017 20:55:12
Good Post mate, Writing is on the wall, Big Sam is here for the duration.

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29 Dec 2017 20:04:37
Excellent post on NSNO today and i quote, Sam Allardyce has done well in his short time at Everton, remarkably well, you could say he has even worked a miracle, a team that had forgotten how to defend now does, and does it extremely well, nothing flash nothing fancy, and it goes on to say how the immediate impact of Sam at Everton has taken everybody by surprise even Sam himself, such is the startling change in fortunes, unbeaten in seven games and only two goals conceded, and even the most Anti Sam Evertonians are surely grateful, we will need to be patient it won't happen over night, we now have an owner who has more passion and resourses, something we have missed at Everton for a very very long time, i sincerely hope the guy will be given a fair crack of the whip and in time we will all see what he can deliver, of this I have no doubt.

Believable2 Unbelievable4

29 Dec 2017 20:55:59
Good post mate.

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29 Dec 2017 13:39:58
pauly, easy to see why defence has improved there's eleven in it conversely the offence is crap for the same reason, if and when we start to do some attacking the same scenario as early in the season will hit us like a bag of shite all Big Sam's teams do the same where are they now Bolton, Blackburn, Newcastle, Palace, West Ham, he does a job but leaves no foundations for progress we're still in deep shit, wake up our football is the worst in the Premier look at the efforts on goal woeful.

Believable3 Unbelievable7

29 Dec 2017 15:26:14
Your list is interesting, however I give you another list, leeds, sunderland, a/ villa, sheffield wen, qpr, and a host of others, all relegated, and all finding it difficult to get back to the top flight.
Without Allerdice, there is every chance we would have joined them, then new ground and all that goes with it would have been lost, it's 16 years and god knows how many new owners in leeds case, and I'm getting to old to wait that long.
PS, Sam has only the mess left to him by the two tip tap nobs we dispached, so how about people cut him some slack for one or two transfer windows.

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29 Dec 2017 15:32:05
Smokeandmirrors here is a footballing fact for you. Every single team Sam has managed were in a much better league position when he left.

I think the ONLY reason you don't like Sam is because a lot of other people don't. Sheep tend to follow other sheep. So you think we have eleven defenders, DCL not a defender, Rooney not a defender, Schneiderlin not a defender, Pickford not a defender, Bolasie not a defender, Ramirez not a defender, Lennon Not a defender, McCarthy not a defender, Gueye not a defender, Sigi Klassen Niasse not defenders. Our Squad of 42 we only have 10 defenders and 2 of those are loaned out and 2 injured.

Stay on the Hate Sam bandwagon if it makes you feel good as some people appear to be immune to common sense.

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29 Dec 2017 16:06:26
Smoke I posted this in November in reply to someone else with similar perceptions:

ā€˜Eddy you got it wrong, them clubs are a mess when he arrives, did you forget that part? he makes a crap bunch of players play as a team, takes them back to basics, when he leaves the club the next manager that comes in can not replicate what he has done with them same crap players, hence they are a mess and go down. ā€™

He took Bolton to Europe, letā€™s not forget this, so how when he leaves and they go slowly down hill is that his fault? Laughable at the least!

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29 Dec 2017 17:29:16
So if i am to believe (the same 2 ) pro sam posters we will eventually play attacking expansive football.
After all he got bolton in europe.
I am not knocking him at all here but we must be 20yrs past those days of Bolton and i think they qualified once and it was brief.
SA has an 18 month contract and i can assure you he is not in the long term plans.
It will be backs to the wall and see if you can break us down or he risks attacking and going on a losing streak that ends his contract and carear.
He was a younger hungrier manager at Bolton and they were a club whos obly ambition was to remain a prem club.
Again ill reiterate that right now i like the points but the performances are dreadful.

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29 Dec 2017 18:04:50
Big Sam has got RK's squad they are not playing any better football than they did under RK. The big difference is the squad has settled more, the players are more comfortable with each other now and are playing not to loose. Rhino did a good job settling the team and stopping the rot SA will build on that but I can't see us playing anywhere near the type of expansive football a lot of the supporters want until there no chance of relegation. SA as with DU had to shore up the defence and bring some confidence back into the dressing room. The only way to do that was not to concede goals SA has done a pretty good job so far on that front.

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29 Dec 2017 18:22:40
How are you privvy to all that inside information Pauly? I had no idea that if he has a losing streak with us we will be ending his contract.

If he got us into Europe this season and top 4 next season would he still not feature in our long term plans?

I assume, correct me if I am wrong here, that by the 2 pro Sam posters you are meaning myself and GB? Well I for one have never said that we will be playing " Attacking expansive football" and I don't really recollect GB saying it either.

The only thing that you have not fabricated for effect in your post is the fact that Sam was indeed younger. You mentioned his ambition at Bolton was greater and then say they only ever wanted to remain a prem club whilst he was there. Can you see how it looks like you playing both sides of the coin with that?

An important thing you will no doubt learn when you are older and that is that your hunger and ambition do not go away, it becomes more intense to get the things you have never achieved, done. Ferguson was 26 years at Man Utd and his drive and hunger is still as strong now as it was when he first joined them. Perhaps it only applies to our managers who have no hunger or ambition.

oh well.

On the Internet you can be anything you want. It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

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29 Dec 2017 18:24:29
I donā€™t get everyone wanting expansive football right now, our team is crap from a attacking point, just become better defensively, only a few games ago we were getting destroyed. All Iā€™m doing is giving SA a chance, so is the board hence the 18 month contract, if he fails at least he stopped us from disaster this season. If he shows us something new from his locker then we will all be surprised, but he at least needs a chance based on how bad we are and the fact that team has needed a overhaul for some time now. Will everyone still hate him as much if he was to bring home a cup? Mourinho plays the same style football, just looks better with more quality players, Chealski love him for what he done there, now the Manxā€™s fan are getting served it they are going mad, as fickle as they are if he brings a cup they will all sing his praises again. Il judge SA 10 games into next season if heā€™s kept on after the summer, the team should have his imprint on it by then in players hired and fired.

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29 Dec 2017 18:33:48
Pauly not many teams come up from the championship with limited resources and qualify for Europe, even if only once. Did Alex Ferguson become any less hungrier as he got older? I think you are right, he is not in the long term plans, but I also think the board has left the door open for him to prove he is worth an extension to his contract. He is a football man and will know what we fans expect, would be stupid of him to sit back and not give his last real chance at management a proper go. Again this season is as good as a right off, next season if still here will be the one I expect more. If not we pay up less than 12 months and move on.

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29 Dec 2017 18:42:32
Bit paranoid aren't you grumpy?
I think sometimes people really really want something to work and can lose sight of reality with regards to certain situations.
Privvy to certain info? A bit yes.
Heres a little tip for you. johnny evans. If i'm wrong ill stop listening to my "info man"
Dont get too carried away because he is not there long term.
I know you are fond of him and prob around the same age (hence why youve assumed i'm ageist) but he is there to shut the door.
Whilst this is the case like i have previously stated the football will stink.
This gives FM enough time to concentrate on securing his top target.
Do you honestly beleive the new coming era gor EFC will be led by the 3 amigos? Wake up.

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29 Dec 2017 18:47:59
I wonā€™t knock you Pauly as you may well have an info man, but he must be high up and in touch with the board as I donā€™t see them wanting leaks, which seems to be the case here. Out of interest, who would be FMs top managerial target?

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29 Dec 2017 18:54:52
Bestyrn youd be surprised how many teams have actually done that.
For eg ipswich? 01
It can happen very easily.
Not knocking his achievment at all here just stating what some are clinging to.

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29 Dec 2017 19:02:25
Bestyrne you don't need an info man to know SA is short term surely.
He wasnt first choice. Nor was he second choice. He is a stop gap based on his "fireman"status. Its how he sold himself to our club.
The info i get isn't much as youll notice i'm not a rumour printer but i do hear good info that is always 100%
To prove a point i hace just stated J Evans same source. I've heard a lot but i don't post. I've said this 1 because grumpy wants me to look like an idiot. I won't say where it comes from because i don't know if there would be trouble caused but you see him every game.
I have nothing to prove here as i am not a rumour poster. I just enjoy the site.

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29 Dec 2017 19:04:19
Last one for bestyrne
His top target is diego simeone.

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29 Dec 2017 19:12:34
No I agree, itā€™s proven with the contract he was given, but in the same respect if he does something out the ordinary do you dismiss all chance he gets an extension or the chance to see out the remaining 12 months with chance of an extension. Iā€™m not bothered if he stays or goes end of season, I believe we needed him when we got him due to the team performances and team itā€™s self. Would I like to see him do well? Of course, if he does well then Everton do well. Would I like to see good football? Of course, good football gets you singing louder. Can he do both? Only time will tell, 8 games gone is not enough to judge him, thatā€™s were Iā€™m at. Just need to give the man a chance.

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29 Dec 2017 19:44:29
As a fan i totally agree that i would love to see any manager get it right at our club.
I just believe that that wasnt the deal that was agreed.
Simeone amd fonseca are the 2 top targets. Both are interested but it was the wrong time for an approach to work.
Simeone's reps sounded us out.
Just keep that in mind.
Fonseca just took donetsk into the knockout stages on his first attempt.
Things will be different come may for him.
Again keep that in mind.

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29 Dec 2017 19:49:01
Pauly if I have overstepped the mark and you feel I was making you look like an idiot I have little choice but to apologise for that as it was never my intention.

What may actually surprise you is that Sam, like others, was not my first choice, it was Raffa. But unlike many others I have, and will continue to give Sam my full support. No matter how much people slate him on here he is in charge and no amount of moaning or insider knowledge is going to change that. For some reason people do not want to accept that.

At the moment I am sure he is playing the best possible tactics he can, especially given the team he has inherited. I am also sure that he would be much happier if those games drawn were wins. I honestly believe if WBA had met us 10 or 11 games ago they would of beat us. Sam is slowly stopping the rot and given time and money will build a good team.

As for age I am actually older than Sam and as such maybe have more sympathy for him or could it be more desire than most for him to succeed. Before I go to see the great referee in the sky I would like us to win the premiership at least once. Because time is not really on my side I find it very easy to support whomever is in charge.

You do right in not revealing your "info" man but sometimes they are not always right. I thought Johnny Evans was a Man City target, I may be wrong but if we get him ahead of them then all the better.

Finally will Sam be our long term manager? that all depends on how well he does, If he brings in silverware and European football then yes he will. Sam is very highly respected by a lot of managers out there and they see him as a threat, to me that speaks volumes.

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29 Dec 2017 20:05:30
Grumpy i'm not really upset.
I am a fan and i am behind him no matter what i may say amd sometimes it is in the heat of the moment but i think even Sam knows he is a stop gap amd he can only salvage the season and ensure safety.
I still whole heartedly believe the panic button was pressed far too quickly and only because the top 2 targets couldn't move at that point in this season.
I sincerely hope it ends in mutual satisfaction for both parties as the more i hear the man speak the more i warm to him but we are about to move upwards through FM ambition for this club and SA will never be the man to do that.
Could you seriously watch that type of football for the long term?
You wouldn't see us win the prem before you play your harp and neither would i and i'm only 42 amd neither would my son or his future son.
Attacking football wins games through goals scored. Its fine teaching a team not to concede but its not conceding more than you score that ultimately wins trophies.
West brom were made to look good as were southampton. My point has always been that the type of football he serves up is no where near the club motto which after all is what we all adhere to as fans.

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29 Dec 2017 20:24:47
Pauly, Simeone is the man Iā€™ve been calling for for the last couple of years, il find you and hug you if that one comes off, il even drive the taxi for SA out of finch farm. Have to agree with timing of approaching them and I believe Simeone has achieved all he can in Spain and hope we are of real interest to him.

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29 Dec 2017 12:31:10
Just watched Big Sam in his interview on SSN, and have to say what a breath of fresh air he is compared to Martinez and Koeman, his knowledge of the game is second to none, he was talking about defenders not being coached enough these days so he does it himself, this certainly shows with our defence now since Sam arrived this guy is the real deal, I say to all the doom merchants out there, give him a season before you judge him, with a couple of new faces in the window we will be fine, and who knows you. might enjoy the ride after all.

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29 Dec 2017 13:14:02
No doubt about that GB. I have every confidence now that Big Sam, Little Sam and the Earl of Oxford will bring us back to the top.

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29 Dec 2017 14:06:53
Agreed gb i am surprised at how much i am now moving to his side of the fence. I think he may do well for us long term if his health stays good but he does get today's award for stating the obvious when he said we need a front man.

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29 Dec 2017 15:34:12
Good post GB and his potential new signings also look good.

Roll on his contract extension.

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29 Dec 2017 15:38:17
Have to hold my hands up though I thought Koeman was the Bees Knees when he arrived, in the end I couldn't wait for him to Buzz Off.

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29 Dec 2017 15:45:58
You will get no I told you so from me. On another development it would seem our push for Tosun could be in jeopardy, other interested Parties up for a gazump. Everton have sent a delegation, so that is us up the swanny! LOL. Still it wouldn't be Everton would it.

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29 Dec 2017 16:43:37
Would be stupid not to extend it Grumpy mate.

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29 Dec 2017 18:24:34
I'm with you on that one GB.

I'm going to sing his praises every single day mate, twice a day when he gets the extended contract.

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29 Dec 2017 18:26:00
Iā€™m all day for giving him his chance GB, but we have thrown too much money at mistakes, think this time we should play it a bit more safe.

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29 Dec 2017 19:21:01
Cant agree with that mate, we now have an owner who has more ambition and resourses than all of on here put together this is going to work, of this i have no doubt.

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29 Dec 2017 21:25:04
"bring us back to the top" šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚ the top of where? Hahaha, any chance one you could get me one of those t-shirts your selling online? šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚.

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29 Dec 2017 09:31:40
If we do sign Tosun, does it mean Walcott is no longer a target ed? Cheers.

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{Ed025's Note - no joe, i personally dont think he will be part of the winter window mate but maybe in the summer..

29 Dec 2017 11:51:22
Apparently Southampton are after him too. We need pace but not sure he's as consistent as we need.
I'd love perisic but he'll have bigger clubs than us after him if he leaves inter.

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29 Dec 2017 09:26:31
anyone else surprised we are looking to sign nzonzi as we are over run in the midfield department.

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{Ed025's Note - but where does that leave schneiderlin bluey?..

29 Dec 2017 10:21:39
West Ham bound probably Ed.

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{Ed025's Note - you could be right ace..

29 Dec 2017 10:53:29
I have no idea ED25 after a terrible season I thought Schniderlin was starting to look the player he was last season more importantly where does it leave Baesic McCarthy gueye Davies ECT because they will all be fighting to play alongside him I can see quite a few outgoings if not this window definitely the summer.

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{Ed025's Note - me too bluey..

29 Dec 2017 17:09:43
Basic and McCarthy are gone.

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29 Dec 2017 09:11:29
Away v Bournemouth Saturday, home v Man U Monday and a cup tie v Klippity-Klopps lot Friday, so all in all a fairly busy week coming up. Anything less than 3 points Sat and at least a draw Mon and I'll be disappointed. The icing on the cake would of course be a win Friday, but we'll have to play better than the derby for that to happen.

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29 Dec 2017 16:47:49
Before these 3 games of which Bournemouth is the last, I said we could end up with 30 points. Then the way we are not creating or putting away chances I have seen over Christmas, I changed my mind and said happy with 28 or 29. I will stick to that. As for the reds, we were very lucky against them and I cannot see us sustaining that much pressure and holding out again, I hope we do, do a number on them but let's see.

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29 Dec 2017 03:44:27
Regardless of wether we sign Tosun or not we should go all out for Aboubakar.

I think he's only recently signed a new contract so don't know how feasible a deal would be but he would be a pretty decent mould for the void left by Lukaku imo.

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29 Dec 2017 02:02:12
Do we play Bournemouth tomorrow then United on the Monday?

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29 Dec 2017 08:33:10
yeah swan 3pm kick off tomorrow the 5.30pm kick off v utd.

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29 Dec 2017 17:10:48
CHeers mate.

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29 Dec 2017 01:21:46
75 million for van dyke. Crazy.
If Southampton did club card points, liverpool would be able to get frazier forster for free ro solve their goalkeeper crisis.

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29 Dec 2017 16:11:07
Seen something the other day of all the players they sold, showed what the team would look like if they where all still there and looked a very good team. Had some good players through there doors.

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