Everton Banter Archive September 23 2016

23 Sep 2016 20:39:15
There is a lot of poster's comments on Ross, some constructive but most purely critical.
Forget the age issue because simply if you are good enough age is not a factor, the aspects of his game that he needs to improve, decision making, positional awareness in both attacking and defensive situations, he can be coached on in a very short timescale.
He is naturally very talented and gifted player, imo better than Rooney, and is physically better equipped but the difference, and it is a massive difference, is in his psyche. Wayne had the desire to run through a brick wall, but Ross is far too timid in his approach.
This is possibly as a result of his serious injury as a teenager, but as RK will no doubt tell him there is no place for fear on a football pitch.
It really is counter productive to verbally abuse every semblance of a mistake because confidence is a major factor in any form of professional sport. In this respect we have a manager who has the personal experience and man management abilititias already demonstrated, to make the correct call on footballingj issues.
So to those supporters who are being less than tolerant try encouraging Ross and trust RK to make decisions.

24 Sep 2016 09:09:25
I agree withe everything except the age bit. Because he missed the best part of 2 years in his development at such a critical stage. his footballing mentality is about 20 years old. and to me it shows. I say judge himin another 2 years. Right now he is still growing up. He also does not come over as the brightest of buttons so perhaps he never will develop the right mental ability. but for me he needs another 2 years.

23 Sep 2016 17:26:58
My fat fingers.

Barkley last season contributed to 12 goals and 11 assists in all competitions. This is the highest by an Everton midfielder since 1987.

Since 2000 the nearest to him was Arteta in 2006 with 9 goals and 13 assists.

None of this seems to matter though to most blues. I don't know why but it's a strange one.

I put it down to two factors. Moyes over 10 years had a team of battling players that had to tackle every blade of grass. Any player with natural talent and skill were classed as a luxury. Don't get me wrong I thought like this too.

The other factor is one I stated before. Martinez didn't moan so we fans did it for him. I'm hoping Koeman with his straight talking will alleviate this problem and turn us back into the supporters of old but it will take time.

He needs to improve his distribution, concentration and his effort over 90 minutes but if you want to know if he has the talent then think of the list of midfielders we've had at Everton in that time and think about his achievement last year.

Have a go when he's bad but give credit to a lad that has performed better than any other midfielder in almost a quarter of our history of our football club.

23 Sep 2016 17:39:33
Love it BlueJohnUns but it will make no difference. Some people have their mind made up he's crap unless he scores every game. Sad really.

23 Sep 2016 17:45:46
If anyone told RK at the Stadium of Light 'look Ronnie mate this lads the best midfield prospect we have had for donkeys so keep him on at all costs '

Then all I can say John. . is thank Christ Mr Koeman doesn't stand on ceromony when it comes to poor performing players with outstanding previous stats!

23 Sep 2016 18:08:22
Point is Blue247 he doesn't deserve the abuse and he's doing better than people think. Of course Koeman is right to take him off. Pitty RM didn't do it more often.

23 Sep 2016 18:38:15
It's strange how some can look back and not see that the lad has contributed to the team either last season or this season. Has he played brilliantly every game since breaking through? No he hasn't but you can put that label on nearly every player. Is he of the required standard to succeed in the top league? I believe he has the attributes to do so, he just needs the right guidance on and off the pitch. He never had that under RM, I'd go as far as saying this situation hasn't been helped by the way he was used, in or out of form, last season. The main thing is he now plays for a manager who will not tolerate players not following how he wants them to play in a game. What everyone must realise is that we are only a few games in to the season and, despite the fact we haven't fared too badly, this team is very much a work in progress. RK will put his stamp on it over the next few windows and has made it clear he will not carry any passengers. Therefore, it is up to Ross to step up to the plate and show he is worthy of playing for EFC.
He has had a couple of good games and a couple not so good, we can all agree to that. But is that worthy of the criticism he gets from our own supporters? Gana had his worst game in a blue shirt v Norwich, don't see many sniping at him. If we had another capable striker then we may have taken a few chances and killed that game off but, instead, we are all debating whether RB is good enough. Stop with the booing when he does not get something right, unless you are going to be fair and do that with every single player and that's not ideal. We know this gets to the lad, we seen the video of him a HT at Wembley when Jags was telling him the fans weren't booing him solely.
I agree it's a make or break season for the lad but at least let him start with a clean slate or the boo boys will run him out of town.

{Ed025's Note - good post that spud mate..

23 Sep 2016 19:19:54
As pretty much always good post spudv. That clip from HT you talk about shows the poor chap is slightly paranoid about it. At 22 he's still only a kid in my eyes. It seems apparent the lads only problem is the mental aspect of the game. Hopefully he can handle it. He looks very lean and in good shape compared to last season.

23 Sep 2016 19:42:53
Blue previous stats?! Last season was 6 games ago.

Lets hope he doesn't give up on any player after 6 games into a season.

23 Sep 2016 19:48:02
Oh and one more thing. This season he has scored 2 and 1 assist in all comps. 2nd only to Lukaku, again!

24 Sep 2016 07:34:41
As I have already pointed out the ''fans verbal abuse is wrong'' if only because it's counter productive with Ross apart from it being downright thuggish and ugly.

My point here is the lad is not delivering on anywhere near the regular basis he should, and he should stop listening to the fans and take notice of RK, because this manager has done more in this short space of time in terms of 'wheat and chaff' sorting than his fraudulent predecessor could have done in a dozen seasons!

{Ed025's Note - im with you there 247..

24 Sep 2016 09:03:50
The biggest point I can point to is all of the detractors on here of him don't even acknowledge his efforts. Not one of you.

He is not perfect. In fact he needs to improve in lots of areas and I've never once said he is the messiah or ignored his failings. I believe Koeman could get the best out of him because he highlights these failings and doesn't let him off.

You ask him to ignore 40000 voices when on the pitch and just the manager. Look at that sentence. Tell me how on earth you do that. He's not an xmen! In that stadium we should be fighting for each other. However most saturdays there's one lad on a field on his own.

24 Sep 2016 09:16:17
BlueJohnUns, thanks for digging out those statistics. They were the ones I wanted. They discussed thembefore the match the other night on TV and so when I saw all these posts about Barkley not having the ability etc I really wanted to post them. Thanks. My point on them shows he is at worst inconsistent. So all Koeman needs todo is handle him right and get more consistency out of him. This is all to do with development of the player and like I keep saying, this will not happen overnight. He was rushed in by Martinez and a slower approach will probably now be used and in 2 years time we will have one hell of a player. All players go through this. It is just that most have had the extra 2 years of development at Ross's gae that he missed out on because of his injuries.

24 Sep 2016 09:29:44
You make him sound like 'the ugly duckling '

''there's one lad on a field on his own. ''?

That is leaning way way too far to his defence he's a man not a delicate flower omg!

So OK you say he is playing well then? and I don't!

24 Sep 2016 12:41:29
On that field he IS treated like an ugly duckling and no I'm not saying he is playing well every game but against Middlesborough he was good but against Norwich he was poor along with the other 10 players. HE is the one singled out though for a poor game.

Also I'm not singling you out at all Blue. However, I haven't seen anything positive in any of the posts who are condemning him and that is wrong, very wrong.

I will look at anyones point of view if they give a balanced argument but when only the negative side is given then it's pointless as it shows complete bias to their oppinion. I can easily point out he has many many failings and if he wants to improve as a player then this and any season is important. Consistency, concentration, ball retention, composure and even crowd engagement has go up 20 or 30% and I want more goals and assists.

In no way am I getting at anyone on here you have all got your own opinions and I love that. On here slag him off or anyone as much as you want. If I've got an argument against like you I'll put it on here but please people in that ground give that team your backing. With it Everton is second to none. On our fans I am totally biased and not one person in this world will change my view - we are the best!

COYB NSNO IRKWT.

{Ed025's Note - im totally with you there john..

23 Sep 2016 15:10:52
I totally understand all the concerns about Barkley's up and down form. But I'm not too bothered by it myself.

For me we have a manger who isn't going to put up with it so when he's good he's in and when he's not he's out. That was just not the case with Martinez which affected the results and the player to the detriment of both.

So as long as we've got our manager the Ross Barkley debate, whilst not going away, will not hurt us as a team anymore.

Win win.

{Ed025's Note - fair point ace..

23 Sep 2016 16:06:52
agreed. and if he was 25 I would be worried. as it is I am not bothered in the slightest.

23 Sep 2016 08:35:45
Hey Ed025, what ever did happen to Swan? I think me and him used tohave some right hummdingers . particularly about Martinez and the signings he was making. Then he went all quiet. But if you remember about 3 months ago, he came on and posted something and we were all Blues in a Blues "love in" again. Just like drinking Horlicks and eating Ready Break at the same time. but then he went quiet again. Come on Swanny. if you are reading this. chip in and enjoy the ride. Koeman and join the party!

{Ed025's Note - i dont know what happened to him degsy, i did ask out IT guy and he was not banned or anything so he left of his own accord, i do remember fondly his ding dongs with you and others mate and it made for some great banter..i miss him..

23 Sep 2016 14:04:21
Used to enjoy Swans' post match analysis and scores. He did sit on the fence a lot though.

23 Sep 2016 17:28:36
I used to love it when Swan had been on the ale and came on here ranting. He often had some really good points and he watched A LOT of football which in my opinion gave him quite a good knowledge of world football and players.

23 Sep 2016 21:33:47
Degsy, his disappearance seemed to coincide with the time you invited him to your 'Leon Osman' fancy dress party and he turned up as 'Aroune Kone'. Apparently the police are still investigating but at the time of writing no evidence of foul play has been uncovered! :-)

23 Sep 2016 10:07:35
I agree with many fans/ posters that we have a lack of cover at centre-forward for the first-team in the event that (hopefully not! ) Lukaku is absent for any run of EPL (English Premier League) fixtures.
Koné isn't the answer - other than as a sub for the closing minutes of a match.
Valencia isn't physical enough to play centre-forward. Neither is Deulofeu.
Niasse - even though named in the 25-man squad and playing/ scoring for the U23s - has been told he has no first-team future at Everton.
The youngsters - like Calvert-Lewin, Dyson, Duffus, Sambou, Brewster, Evans, etc. - are all surely too inexperienced (and not physically battle-hardened) to play centre-forward for the first-team yet.
We have already registered the maximum of 25 players for our aged-over-21 EPL squad, so, even if a free agent was available, we couldn't bring him in until the next transfer window.
Let's hope that SW and RK will successfully address this as part of the January transfer window - and certainly during a bigger shake-up of the squad in next Summer's transfer window when I expect quite a few of the "fringe" squad players to be moved on and the squad's quality in depth to be strengthened.
Comments anyone?

23 Sep 2016 10:40:41
Smashin post Sid . . just one comment, anyone who doesn't know the meaning of ''EPL'' should take up Net Ball mate 🤔 😊.

{Ed025's Note - i dont know whether it was walsh coming in fairly late or just the old "leave it until the last minute everton" why we did not sign a CF in the last window, but i agree with sid that it has to be a priority of the next window even though its not the easiest time to buy..

23 Sep 2016 14:02:02
That's pretty much what I've been saying since the start of this Barkley thing. Finally has a manager he can learn from after 3 years under the clueless one.

23 Sep 2016 07:50:55
Ed025 stated that Barkley was a hairy arsed adult now. Some people also think he should have "blossomed" by now. I have 2 points. Firstly he missed a long time of his development through a critical stage of his development due to a horendous injury. So although he is a young man, he is playing catch up with regards to positional sense and spacial awareness. Secondly, Martinez then literally threw him into the first team without any allowance for my comment in poit one.
I believe this combination of factors mean his development was at first postponed. and then rushed laterly. These factors have resulted in a very talented player having too much exposure and the expectations of our fans wanting another "Rooney" have resulted in the player that flatters to deceive. But if you look at his statistics, he is well on course to be a top player. If he was 20 years old now and had just come into the first team for his debut, then we would all be raving about him. If you consider my points above. then in an ideal world, that would have happened. In reaality, he has had a stop start career and then toomuch responsibility put on him, so is a couple of years behind. If he stays injury free and continues his development, he will be a fine player. But another Rooney? No way.

23 Sep 2016 08:54:32
The enigma that is Ross Barkley will continue to split camps. I agree with ed025 in so much as he is now 22 an England international and a premier league regular! he's a big lad that should dominate the midfield, he has ability but at times does not use it, his worse problem to me is his decision making, that will improve with coaching and experience, perhaps its the most unnatural part of his make up.
I don't think he needs to leave but he does need to step up and make it happen this season. I think Koeman also needs to prioritise an option to make him push for that place, perhaps Gabbiadini was that option?
In the end its the club that comes first, I'm sure Ross loves the club as Rooney does but we need top performers each week, its not a training centre that's with the development squad!

23 Sep 2016 08:58:12
Degsy. . If RK tells the world Barckley needs to grow up and realise that from here on in, he has to wipe his own nose type of thing, then that tells me I have to look at the experience of Mr Koeman and respect his assessment of a young professional! An assessment which I personally would trust in terms of giving Ross a pass if it were plausible to do so.

The fans verbal abuse is wrong however RK and his comments are most likely to be Right!

23 Sep 2016 09:07:11
Good post Degsy, spot on there mate. It's not really about how old he is, but where he's at development-wise.

I would argue that in Bobby's first season, Ross was fantastic, because he played with no fear and the team were playing well, masking his deficiencies.

Throughout the three years in my opinion Martinez made no effort to develop Barkley apart from "playing him and letting him make mistakes" It appears he never once gave Barkley a kick up the arse, or any criticism.

The only people who did criticise him, were all of the pundits and his own fans. Couple that with snubs from the former and present England bosses, and it's no wonder his confidence is down the toilet.

I feel that Martinez has hampered his development that it's like Koeman has to start again, but with an older, first teamer who has massive expectations. For me, the problem is that we can't really leave Ross out, as we have no real option to replace him since Naismith left, and I don't feel that we can leave out a potential matchwinner.

It's a pity we didn't buy someone like Mata in the Summer, as he would not only be a great alternative, but could teach Ross a few things too.

23 Sep 2016 09:42:51
We could leave Ross out and play a different formation but its up to RK to decide. If RK thinks Ross is good enough he will remain with us if not he will be sold.

23 Sep 2016 10:11:01
SA. . Exactly mate!

23 Sep 2016 11:03:31
Changing the formation just to cut Ross out is a) drastic and b) will further destroy his confidence.

Besides, I don't understand what magic formation you are on about sa90? We can't play 2 up front as we don't have 2 quality strikers. And if we replace Ross with McCarthy or Cleverly then we would be too defensive. You also can't put too much responsibility on Tom Davies at his age in CM.

{Ed025's Note - i agree about the macca and clevs bit tommy, maybe if we paired rom and enner together could be a shout, and have ross to start but with tom coming on at half time if ross is not producing the goods?, im sure RK will have his own solutions though mate and i certainly trust him more than i do me.. :)

23 Sep 2016 11:42:17
Good post Ed, Rom and Enner could be worth trying but would represent a risk in itself as Enner is a bit of an unknown quantity, but if we are struggling then it's worth a try. Similarly to Davies coming on if Ross isn't playing well. I just think that we can persist with how it's going for now as we are on a run of good form (Norwich excepted) and as you said, we can trust Koeman to make the decisions as he sees fit.

23 Sep 2016 15:10:15
I am not saying cut Ross out what I am saying is its RK's choice. We played Kev in the hole when Ross was subbed at half time, I was surprised as I thought its was a close call between him and Kev who was playing worse but it looks like RK made the correct decision. RK can play any formation he sees fit to with the personnel he thinks will do the job. If Ross gets picked he gets picked if he doesn't he doesn't. I think Ross will learn more under the current management than he would ever under the previous and hopefully he will now reach his full potential.

{Ed025's Note - i hope so sa..