Everton Banter Archive January 22 2014

22 Jan 2014 20:06:58
I love everything at the club at present. And please read this carefully before having a go at me for being negative. I do see lots of positives at present, but this is one fact that does worry me.
Unlike most people, I am a bit concerned at the way we are going. I don't mean in the way of tactics, play etc. more about signings. We now have 4 loan signings playing what will be a big part of our team this season. Ok we may or may not sign Barry on a permanent? But he is 33 in a few weeks anyway so has to be viewed as short term. McCarthy is our major permanent signing and he looks great in every way except in scoring goals. I will add. Kone was also a permanent signing and I think his goals return when fit will also not be great (never has been). I don't know if we have any chance of making the other loans permanent and I don't think anyone knows. Doubtful at best. I hope beyond hope that Baines stays. Distin is 99 years old now and how he keeps going is beyond me. I can't see him lasting more than 1 more season. Osman and Pienaar probably also don't have much more left in them. Yes we have some good young talent coming through in Barkley, Stones and one or two others, but with the 4 loans and at least 3/4 aging players, this means a major overhaul to our squad in the next prob 18 months. the two permanents so far do not score many goals. fact. Add these things up and you will see this is a lot of change and you only have to look at Crystal Palace and Sunderland (Villa last season. If Villa had not signed Benteke, they would have gone down.) to see what happens when you overhaul a squad in one go. Especially if you have teams not scoring goals. In my humble opinion it should be 2 or 3 players per season max changing. If you lose a goal scorer like Felli, replacement signings have to compensate. They have so far, but these players are on loan. To sum up, we may lose 8 players in the next 2 seasons and so far we have signed 2 central players who do not contribute a great deal with goals. We need to sign some young central players who can contribute with goals.and on a permanent basis. Our next few signings will have to be contributing with goals or we are in deep ****.

22 Jan 2014 21:39:59
wow don't sign barry because he isn't a goalscorer, neither is iniesta mate, barca should release him from his contract, what a load of tosh

Mike-Ox Long

Spot on mate.I agree with everything you said.Happy wit the way things are going but you can see how easily it could go tits up.

Our loans are a risk. But they are all class players. If it pays off and we get in top 4 it will be worth it. More money to then sign permanent player's. Either way we are using the system well.

I view the loan system differently. It gives you a chance to look at a player over a longer period. See if it works for you and for him. If both sides are happy then there is always the potential to buy because the player wants to join. If it doesn't work out then you both walk away. He returns to his parent club and we don't get burnt on transfers.

22 Jan 2014 23:05:10
On the other hand if Roberto can keep working the loan market correctly we will replace these loans with 3 or 4 more next year, while not an ideal scenario the money generated if we can be successful will allow permanent deals in the future. If we can't afford to buy these guys on permanent deals yet it is surely better to to it this way than spend what money we do have on inferior players who would probably need replacing sooner rather than later.

I don't think I explained myself very well. Firstly I was not saying don't sign Barry. In fact he should be our priority. My main fear is too many changes at one go. probably at the end of this season. It is inevitable that some of our loan signings will be taken back. I am also saying that we have a few other aging players who will retire or be released and the numbers who are likely to be gone at the end of the season. when added all together mean wholesale changes soon. Added to which we need to sign some young goalscorers because McCarthy, Kone and Barry don't score too many goals. Teams that change more than 5 or 6 players at any one go suffer. examples in the previous post. Teams that change too many players and need to add goalscoring replacements always find it difficult. That's the big task as I see it. Not impossible, but difficult.

Swan he never said anything about not signing Barry or about Barry not scoring goals.

23 Jan 2014 00:08:39
heitinga, vellios and yep that's about it, no other key members will be released or leaving, bobby has someone lined up, its obvious but as many people have said, you cannot buy goalscorers in january, I think he is getting traore on loan until the end of the season then in the summer he i'd going to try and get michy batman, we also have this thing called youth, mcaleny is nearly 22 so should be ready soon despite only coming back from a broken leg, hallam hope is another one who will be ready soon, deulofeu may stay another season, if not we will get someone else in, bobby said it himself in a podcast that if a loan player leaves, someone just as exciting is going to come in, they are his words, I trust him, lukaku can go back i'm not bothered and I hope we don't try and blow a load of money on him, so we have 3-5 changes, kone has been injured, as has gibson so we still have players to come back, chelsea released about 8 players and brought in willian, schurrle, eto, van ginkel plus loan players like de bruyne and essien returning, they are not doing so bad despite these changes, january is a very difficult time to do business, we are using the loan system to last until summer and then permanent signings will come in, we won't struggle, would you rather we give vellios and heitinga bumper pay rises and new five year deals and not bring anyone in? of course not, bobby will sign players and he will do it when he can, if he can and (in the summer) if he needs to, not because you are worried about changes, he will sign players who will not disrupt the dressing room and who will work for us be it short term or long term, trust him

Mike-Ox Long

Thanks Paulmorgan2. I thought I was going mad. As it happens, I think I must have done something bad to Mike Ox-long at sometime? I try to put on posts that are aimed at creating discussion and he comes back at them with total sarcasm, rudeness and dismissal. I usually feel about 2 foot tall after he has responded lol. Strange thing is, I don't think he reads mine properly because it's usually abuse with comments that have nothing to do with my original post. eg the Barry comments this time.
Now my response to Mike's 2nd response (which was a bit more constructive than just stating "utter tosh".) That is whilst I appreciate Chelsea have not done too bad making changes.I would point out 2 things:
1. They have not made the number of changes that we may need to make. Their team has only made 2 or 3 changes this season I think?
2. They are not looking to replace loans by using more loans and can pay significantly higher wages and transfer fees than we can. ie bringing in permanents with more pedigree.
My whole post was one suggesting that too much change in one go can be disruptive. This is particularly apparent when the players being replaced are being replaced with players that may not contribute as many goals and/or are loan. Assuming Lukaku and Deulofeu and Traore return to their clubs at the end of the season, that is our main goalscoring threat gone. Yes I know Kevin Mirallas pops a few in. Thank God he is not on loan!
I only mentioned McCarthy, Kone and Barry because they are not particularly prolific. If you add in McGeady, Jags, Distin, Gibson, Naismith, Osman and Pienaar and yes the kids that you say may come in.there is not much of a goal threat from that squad of players. In theory 7 or 8 of those could play in any one game giving little or no goal threat. Yes we may be able to borrow a couple more goalscorers? Who knows? All I am saying is :
1. too much change is disruptive.
2. filling a squad with players who don't score too many has problems written in for me. especially when the players you rely on to score are loanees.
RM may have a master plan, but I am still a bit worried that we may end up like Villa, Sunderland, Fulham etc. all the clubs who have made wholesale changes in the same way. Only time will tell. RM did this sort of thing at Wigan and look where they are now. Some of his past players are dotted around the league and look great in other teams. But I cannot think of any who are particularly prolific at scoring goals? Maybe I am being glass half empty a bit, but I am still a bit worried. I think Lukaku's goals will be missed most and to replace him with another center forward who will score an estimated 20 goals a season AND on be on loan is a task I would not want. Good luck RM.

And I just realised. Traore deal looks in jeapordy now. Another reason not to rely on loans.

22 Jan 2014 19:48:36
Somebody as tweeted on twitter that Falcao as been carried off for Monaco earlier. If correct this could stop lacina traore coming ed

22 Jan 2014 18:02:42
Sorry ed did you mean baines is just about done? Think you hit the wrong key on you computer! Thanks ed

{Ed025's Note - yes si..

22 Jan 2014 14:33:09
I have no intention to slag baines of whatsoever, But I think its time to let him go in the summer. Bryan has came in and done a fantastic job and seems to fit rm style of play a bit better. And with the new style of play we are less reliant on Baines to create most of are chances, He is also 29 and if we could get 15-20 mill from the right club to reinvest into the squad it would be shrewd business.

And regarding my post the other day about Lukaku's valuation if we do sign Lacina I feel he will only reiterate my point further, he is a similar age, similar playing style yet he only cost about 10 mill I think. Since about the 5-6 game he has be poor tbh and I just can't see how he is worth 25-30 mill.

22 Jan 2014 16:03:41
let me just point to a very obvious thing, baines will be in the last year of his contract in the summer, we will get 7-11m max!, he is the best left back in the world, he hasn't been at his best but has been better than pienaar, mirallas and osman, should we chuck them out to whoever wants them? ever wondered why bobby put baines straight back in the team despite oviedos good form? maybe because baines is better, I don't want baines to go, I love oviedo but people need to calm down, selling baines in the summer would be stupid, I say keep 2 great left backs instead of one, as bobby said himself, (when asked about keeping baines and oviedo both happy) he said 'that doesn't worry me, what would worry me is if we didn't have those 2 quality players, its great having them both'

Mike-Ox Long

I agree with everything Mike Ox has said. (1st time for everything eh Mike?)
Would Chelsea sell Hazard? Would Utd sell Rooney? Would the s***e sell Suarez. NO NO NO is the answer. Money is great, but having footballers is better. Especially your best one.
Degsypulford

Agree Mike and if we had a better passer of the ball in midfield then Rom would score more goals. He makes lots of good runs not seen by the telly or our midfield for that matter.

It really annoys me when people say "plus he's 28-30" or whatever, this isn't fifa, players don't just turn 30 and become a shell of there former selves. baines has 5 or 6 years left in him at the top level. and I want to he him in an everton shirt for that time.

Can't really compare them players to baines as they are all forward players.
And from a buisness point of view baines is 29 so the next year or two is really the time to sell if we plan to.
He is a lb and yes he is 1 of the best lb in the game but are squad is in dire need of reinvestment over the next couple of years with Osman, jagielka, distin, Howard, Barry, Pienarr and a few others over 30. without selling we are hardly going to have a spare 80 mill to spend are we?.
And without outside investment I feel if we don't take this route we will fall behind over the next 5 years with all the teams in the top ten building for the future and having the financial power to sign top players

And when a player does turn 30 I do believe this has an effect on there value which was all I was referring to

Thanks

22 Jan 2014 11:27:51
hi ed it all gone quiet on baines contract and transfers! what's going on? thanks ed

{Ed025's Note - baines is just on done si, traore will sign, but that could be it, unless we get a squad player on loan..

22 Jan 2014 12:56:57
Looks like we've been fined 45k for an illegal approach of a Notts Forest Player, which happened 4 years ago. well done Moyes. -__-

22 Jan 2014 13:40:31
More importantly why aren't utd fined for approaching our manager last jan

Yes an FA fine, surprised it's very unlike the Everton way of doing things now and then

It's unlikely to be just Moyes' fault. These things are handled by multiple people. But I am surprised by it; very unlike us. Far more like the kind of thing you'd expect Liverpool to do.

22 Jan 2014 12:50:15
Just read that batshuayi has said he's staying at liege until the summer. Let's hope bobby has something else under his sleeve

Marco

22 Jan 2014 07:52:15
Some early morning moans!
Is anyone else getting a little bit bored with the, 'Baines to sign new deal' /'We need to tie Baines up soon' stories?
When he comes into training this morning, will somebody please hand him the bloody contract with a pen that works please!
And whilst I'm on one, what's the point of paying Vellios?
We don't play him, he refuses to go on loan and is the best paid spectator every week.