Everton Banter Archive December 21 2015

21 Dec 2015 21:22:18
Are the rumours of chang buying the club
got substance ed25 or ed02.

{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of any thought that Chang might be buying Everton. The interest there is comes from the United States.}

22 Dec 2015 06:19:45
Chang haven't got anywhere near the money needed to buy us and be able to take us forward, unless there under a much bigger company which I've got no idea of.

22 Dec 2015 07:54:49
hi Oll, Chang beer are no small company mate, one of their chairmen is worth in excess of 10 Billion, makes no difference as they are not buying us anyway.

21 Dec 2015 20:48:06
I think we should go oxlede chamberlain he a quality player and still only 22 and getting wasted at arsenal and destroying his confidence. It would do him the world of good coming here for a few years then get a move to one of the rich clubs again.

21 Dec 2015 20:55:24
Wouldn't bench Deulofeu for him imo, plus, has he developed at all? Same player now as he was when they signed him.

21 Dec 2015 20:57:27
Is that meant to be sarcastic Eddy?

21 Dec 2015 19:59:05
Soccer pundit on BBC north west this evening pointing out Evertons weakness in goal. So how long does Martinez leave it before changing or does he not know about Specsavers.

21 dec 2015 15:59:42
i was listening to phone in on sat and the presenter said we have lvpool mare joe anderson on the line and i jumped out my seat,i thought yeesss were getting a new stadium why else wud he phone in. no luck he only phoned up to slag off ross barkly cud not bleave it,i thought he was a blue he is no help with new ground and phones up slagging are brightest prospect in years,i give up.

21 Dec 2015 13:40:36
I no it's not great at the minute lads but come on people wanting moyes back is pathetic.

21 Dec 2015 14:42:48
Why is it pathetic?

21 Dec 2015 16:20:59
Because it shows a clear lack of ambition and a bad small club mentality. Be like Liverpool fans deciding they don't want to progress under Klopp and deciding they want Rodgers back (not comparing Martinez to Klopp, we need someone like Klopp, not Moyes) . Or Spurs deciding forget Poch let's get Martin Jol back. The team we have is more than good enough to get top four, it is being misused by Martinez. Do you know why we are where we are and not worse? Romelu Lukaku. Moyes would improve the Defence but hold Rom back and he would get half the goals he gets or less as Moyes would use him wrong. He'd want him tracking back and holding it up, leaving him isolated. Deulofeu would be dropped instantly. You brought up he would have to play him due to backlash from fans, so? When has Moyes cared? He'd sell Doofy Loofy asap to get a Simon Davies esq winger out there. Or worst of all play Osman there again or have a reunion with Arteta. We could also say goodbye to Galloway, Stones, Browning, Garbutt and any youngsters wanting to make it through the academy. Just ask Mustafi (a player many of Europe's top clubs now want) or Ross Barkley. We know he doesn't rate Stones, did Distin sign a 1 year deal with Bournmouth? Get him back in the summer. Back to the old knife to a gun fight cowardice. Oh the boring long ball glorified Tony Pulis style of play can return. We need an ambitious manager to move forward as a club, David Moyes is the opposite. He dragged title winners to barely make 7th in less than a year. Got sacked by Sociedad for being a fool and not caring. Said we are a sall club, was a hypocrite and the most miserable negative ghoul that has ever managed a team that wanted to progress. People really want to go back to those days? The lack of chances for the young players, horrible football and bad mentality that goes completely against what we were like when we actually achieved something. If David Moyes were to come back, I take that as the board not caring at all about the fans, the players or the club. I personally would stop going the matches. That's what these stupid plane messages should be used for, to keep managers like David Moyes away from a club fans should want to see win things and achieve things and play good football, see local lads thrive and David Moyes destroys all of that.

21 Dec 2015 16:40:59
Thanx swan that's exactly the response I would have gave haha saves me typing it all out though haha.

21 Dec 2015 17:22:30
You not a fan of Moyes then Swan haha. Have to agree tbh what we need is a man at the helm with balls to bollock the players when its not working and change it and also to drop under performers ie Howard. Cannot see it happening though and if the board did sack RM who is there available that realistically we could bring in?

21 Dec 2015 18:36:32
Exactly bluegray87, if not DM. Who realistically could we get? Bayern's Pep, Mourinho? Don't think so.

Moyes finished 7th with Utd Swan. So tell me Swan after LvG spent £300m or something like that where did they finish with him after spending all that money? How good do they look this season after spending all that money?

Damn all better than when Moyes was there. I know plenty of Utd supporters who say in hindsight Moyes should not of been sacked. He done well with the squad he had at the time. LvG will struggle to get them in top 4 this season. They were knocked out of Europe.

At least Moyes got them out of the group. Your argument about Moyes at Utd doesn't stand up and certainly doesn't stand up at Everton. He almost single handedly kept Everton in the premiership. You were too young to of seen it.

Yes he said things that were out of order. In his last year his defence were as good if not better than any in the premiership. Look at it now. Let goals in for fun.

Your arguments with players he would have and Moyes would do this and do that with this player and that player is all in your head Swan. He wouldn't go back for Distin or Arteta. It was David Moyes that signed Stones so he'd obviously keep him at the club if he could. He was going to play Barkley also. You can't say he wasn't going to play him.

One thing you can be sure Moyes would do is organise the defense and get us hard to score against. I remember him signing Andy Van Der Mayde who was a very skillful winger. Only for personal problems he would of been a hit.

Del boy no doubt would be played by Moyes. Would actually thrive knowing if he loses the ball then the defense can handle it. Not like now. Letting in goals just to make the game a draw.

Moyes is proven, would sort out the defense and guarantee a top 7 finish. Great appointment until someone else became available. Yes like Klopp. But they are not going to come the way we are at the moment. So Moyes it is for me. He'd be more grateful of the job now and more humble imo.

So if not Moyes then who, who would any of the no Moyes brigade pick? I'd love to hear who would do better than Moyes. At the moment it certainly doesn't look like Martinez is. Going backwards from Moyes. Martinez said himself he'd get us into champions league. Can't see it this season. When Utd and co are struggling after all the money they spent.

No doubt if Moyes was still at Everton he'd be taking advantage of the mishaps of the 'big 4' this season and have us very well organised and tough to play against.

21 Dec 2015 19:41:04
He did well with the Utd squad? Finishing 7th? The same Utd squad that won the league before that. Not to mention the acquisition of Juan Mata. Your Deulofeu comment makes no sense, Moyes would be screaming at him to run back all the time, leaving him no energy to attack. Moyes signed Stones after our scout BEGGED him because Moyes didn't rate him. The way he preferred to play Heitinga his opinion on Stones didn't change. He played Barkley, once, against Arsenal, was motm, where after that? In the reserves for almost 2 months. When was he "going to play" Barkley? . When was he going to play Garbutt or Stones. Don't say they were not ready, Sterling ready at 17, Garbutt not at 20? Rooney at 16, Ross and Stones not at 18-19?. He preferred Hitzelsperger, Neville and even Heitinga in midfield over Ross. I doubt we would be much better at the moment under Moyes, mainly because he wouldn't have signed any of the players (good or bad) Martinez has, especially Rom and Geri. We would likely have seen Matt Jarvis over Geri and someone like Kenwyne Jones or Shane Long over Lukaku. Even if in a scenario he did have the players Martinez does, the defence would improve, a lot, the attack force would drop, even more. Also, Van Gaal, as overrated as he is, got Utd 4th and will still do better than Moyes did this season if he remains with them. There's a reason youngsters don't thrive under managers like Moyes, Pulis and Allerdyce, all of which are the same standard. They either get ruined by being told to track back constantly, which Moyes would do with Rom and Doofy Loofy if he played them, which I doubt he would. They are given no freedom, we all know under Moyes NBTB no one got away with letting the defence handle it if they lost it. Not one player got away with it, so to think he would let Deulofeu get away with it is the most absurd thing I could imagine, in fact I couldn't imagine it because it wouldn't happen.

That reminds me

Allerdyce
Hughes
Ranieri
Pardew

All got relegation teams to mid table, why is Moyes so special again? . Least Pardew and Ranieri actually play good Football. Both far better managers than Moyes, and I don't like Pardew. Even Tony Pulis could do those things you said Moyes would do. Why not get Pulis then, just as good as Moyes, I mean, he tells his team to hurt people but still.

You also avoided my points about the dreadful Football. Mustafi, Lukaku being used badly and the embarrassing mentality.

21 Dec 2015 19:51:15
So the alternative is?

21 Dec 2015 20:18:35
O yea, who played Rooney at 16? How can you tell what Moyes 'would have done' you can't Swan. Just like you can't say who he'd pick if he was back.

Mustafi, what is your point with that? Things like that happen. Mourinho let plenty of players leave. Lukaku, De Bruyne, there's more players like that he let go and look at all he won.

You must have a crystal ball Swan. How do you know what way Moyes would play Lukaku. Moyes is a professional at his job and no doubt would move with the times and change tactics etc.

One thing you know Moyes will do is sort the defense out. Forwards like Del boy is don't need sorting. The team would be much better with Moyes.

Let me ask you one thing. Do you think we improved since Moyes has left?

One thing for certain and is a FACT, Moyes made plenty of money for Everton over the 10 years. He left the club a hundred times better off than the way he got it. Do you dispute that? You ignored my comment about you not seeing what Moyes done for this club.

Martinez promised champions league football. 3 seasons on, where is it? Do you think we're going to finish 4th? If you do your delusional.

You also ignored my comment about how much LvG has spent at Utd. How much better are they with the money they spent after Moyes left? Its a total joke. Of course there was going to be hangovers at Utd after Ferguson spent over 20 years there. That wasn't Moyes fault. They spent what was it £300m and they finished 3 places higher with a new manager.

You think that's a big return on the money they spent since Moyes left. That's also a joke. Finishing 3 places higher after spending all that money, yea fantastic return on a ridiculous amount of money with a proper manager, that laughable. Money doesn't grow on trees Swan. How much money did Moyes make Everton with shrewd market buys? He turned the club from financial desperation to a very healthy club financially.

Martinez is reaping the rewards for that. He has spent how much? And didn't need to sell one player. Moyes never had that luxury. Are you going to ignore that FACT. Martinez benefited from Moyes. I don't know how much more time Moyes has made for Martinez. The defense in Martinez first season was Moyes.

That's why we finished 5th. With a decent defense and good attacking play gets you up the top. Martinez coaches are bringing the defense backwards. If you can't see that your blind.

So no to Moyes, then what's the answer? Swan I'm not having a go at you but all your posts lately are giving out and putting people down. Mine have been more negative lately. But I admitted Martinez is very good at recruiting good players at value and I'm obviously praising Moyes.

Can you please write something that has some positivity or even a solution to all these problems.

No to Moyes, then who? Who would do better?

21 Dec 2015 20:18:35
O yea, who played Rooney at 16? How can you tell what Moyes 'would have done' you can't Swan. Just like you can't say who he'd pick if he was back.

Mustafi, what is your point with that? Things like that happen. Mourinho let plenty of players leave. Lukaku, De Bruyne, there's more players like that he let go and look at all he won.

You must have a crystal ball Swan. How do you know what way Moyes would play Lukaku. Moyes is a professional at his job and no doubt would move with the times and change tactics etc.

One thing you know Moyes will do is sort the defense out. Forwards like Del boy is don't need sorting. The team would be much better with Moyes.

Let me ask you one thing. Do you think we improved since Moyes has left?

One thing for certain and is a FACT, Moyes made plenty of money for Everton over the 10 years. He left the club a hundred times better off than the way he got it. Do you dispute that? You ignored my comment about you not seeing what Moyes done for this club.

Martinez promised champions league football. 3 seasons on, where is it? Do you think we're going to finish 4th? If you do your delusional.

You also ignored my comment about how much LvG has spent at Utd. How much better are they with the money they spent after Moyes left? Its a total joke. Of course there was going to be hangovers at Utd after Ferguson spent over 20 years there. That wasn't Moyes fault. They spent what was it £300m and they finished 3 places higher with a new manager.

You think that's a big return on the money they spent since Moyes left. That's also a joke. Finishing 3 places higher after spending all that money, yea fantastic return on a ridiculous amount of money with a proper manager, that laughable. Money doesn't grow on trees Swan. How much money did Moyes make Everton with shrewd market buys? He turned the club from financial desperation to a very healthy club financially.

Martinez is reaping the rewards for that. He has spent how much? And didn't need to sell one player. Moyes never had that luxury. Are you going to ignore that FACT. Martinez benefited from Moyes. I don't know how much more time Moyes has made for Martinez. The defense in Martinez first season was Moyes.

That's why we finished 5th. With a decent defense and good attacking play gets you up the top. Martinez coaches are bringing the defense backwards. If you can't see that your blind.

So no to Moyes, then what's the answer? Swan I'm not having a go at you but all your posts lately are giving out and putting people down. Mine have been more negative lately. But I admitted Martinez is very good at recruiting good players at value and I'm obviously praising Moyes.

Can you please write something that has some positivity or even a solution to all these problems.

No to Moyes, then who? Who would do better?

21 Dec 2015 20:52:10
You need to realise how ironic it is you mentioning me having a crystal ball when you're saying FACT after everything Moyes would do if he came back.

You're talking to me like I'm a Martinez fan so the majority of your arguments fall flat because it isn't relevant to me in any way.

Also, you want me to post something nice because I'm having a pop at the Scottish Tony Pulis? .

Moyes hasn't moved on with tactics, 19th century Football here, at Utd and at Sociedad.

What hangover? He failed miserably at Man Utd and that's a FACT as you put it.

LVG is overrated as I said however he still managed to do much better than Moyes regardless of money spent. Moyes had loads to spend but his targets didn't want to play under him and who can blame them.

At Everton Moyes spent money, Bilyaletdinov, Johnson, Beattie, Jelavic, Heitinga and Yakubu, all of which bar Yakubu due to injury, failed miserably.

Martinez sold Fellaini, who funnily enough was another flop signing at Utd by Moyes.

Mourinho let De Bruyne go because he didn't work hard enough in training. Lukaku was let go because of something he did according to one of the eds, so again your point falls flat.

You've answered nothing on the youngsters, nothing on Deulofeu being forced to track back, nothing on the dreadful Football and nothing on just about anything I've questioned about Moyes. You've just came back with the same thing except adding "FACT" at the end of each statement and expect it to be taken as fact just because you say it should be.

And I'm not having a pop either, enjoying this debate, better than watching Man City who I need to win but are being destroyed by Arsenal. City are another team that need a better manager if they want to go places. However polite and classy Pellegrini is, he's tactically inept as a manager.

21 Dec 2015 21:43:37
The only time I used the word FACT in the future tense is saying Moyes would sort out our defense. Do you agree with that or not? I personally am that sure he would do that I use the word fact.

The only other times I have used the word fact is in the past tense. Which are facts.

The relevance to Martinez is he better than Moyes? Is he improving the team? Moyes done that, past tense, FACT. Improved team, vastly improved finances.

Tony Pulis has nothing to do with Moyes. Don't know or want to know where your going with that.

LvG has done way better than Moyes. Finishing 3 positions higher after spending is £300m? Do you expect me to take that seriously. The reason they only finished 3 places higher after spending all that money is because they were no good to begin with. Where they finished under Moyes was where they were at, at that time. Its proven by the FACT they only finished 3 places higher after spending that money.

Moyes was always cautious with money. Didn't change at Utd. A good business man that made plenty of money for Everton. You ignore that FACT. You also keep ignoring that you didn't see what Moyes done for the club because you were growing up.

The signings your talking about for Moyes is irrelevant. Do you want me to list all the 'flops' Alex Ferguson had? Please Swan every manager signs flops.

Your points fall flat about De Bruyne and Lukaku. De Bruyne is a class act. Point is Mourinho got that wrong. What you say about Lukaku is pure speculation and let's face it properly not true.

He actually came out recently and thanked Mourinho for allowing him to go. Told how Mourinho told him personally. Martinez used money Moyes created to sign Lukaku, FACT.

I don't take things to be taken as fact just because I said so. Its passed tense therefore fact or not.

I haven't really commented on them things you pointed out because they would be all speculation seeing they are future tense. Haven't a crystal ball so I can't say what will happen except for a decent defense under Moyes.

You haven't answered my question about you not seeing what Moyes done for club? The state of the club when he took over?

Basically Swan I think you only enjoy putting people down. You are also ignoring and not answering my question. Who would be better? Who should be made manager?

All you want to do is talk about what is wrong and anything negative. Have you any contribution as to who you'd rather than Martinez? Anything positive to say about anyone?

21 Dec 2015 22:15:16
Sorry but I will trust the ed over you saying "probably not true". I've mentioned the good things Moyes did lots of times, or do you not read the site.

Martinez bought Lukaku with Moyes money? Yes, because Moyes went and signed Fellaini from Everton.

Where Utd were at? You do know they won the title clearly the season before? But I've mentioned that twice and you ignore it. Utd won the Premier League in the 2012-13 season, FACT, Moyes dragged them to 7th just scraping it and was sacked on April for being garbage, FACT. He went to Real Sociedad, didn't bother with the language and the Football was dire and he was again sacked, FACT. The flops I listed by Moyes when here was in argument against the myth that he always spent well.

Someone better? Said Mourinho, again, read the posts.

I'm not putting anyone down, I, like many others, don't want Moyes back, according to you, saying these things is just "putting people down", no, it's called making a constructive argument.

My point about Pulis is he's no better or worse than Moyes, exact same level, that's the point I'm making, if you want Moyes you may aswell want Pulis too. The 4 managers I listed all dragged teams from relegation fodder to mid table and 1 to title challengers. Moyes did the first one and is brilliant for it, why is it any better than how Hughes, Pulis and particularly Ranieri and Pardew have done? .

Moyes wasn't careful with money at Utd, Fellaini was a failed panic buy after it's very well documented that Thiago, Fabregas, Bale and Baines didn't want to join him.

Phil Jones came out and said things were terrible under Moyes, as had Ferdinand.

Mourinho got De Bruyne and Lukaku badly wrong, but he has his reasons, his own stubbornness towards players who do not work hard and this incident with Lukaku. Please don't compare the two.

Mourinho
2 Primeira Ligas with Porto
2 Champions Leagues
1 UEFA Cup
1 Copa Del Ray
1 Super cup in Spain
1 La Liga
2 Serie A's
2 Italian cups
1 FA Cup
3 League Cups
4 Worlds best club coach's

Moyes
1 Comminity Shield

There is no comparison to be made, Mourinho (my choice against yours, David Moyes) , I hope you would take time out of clicking agreeing with yourself and disagreeing with me every time the site gets updated and realise Mourinho is the better choice.

21 Dec 2015 22:54:57
Obviously know Utd won the title the year before. Tell me Swan, who won the premiership last year? They are so good this season also? Is that Moyes fault?

Proof a team can squander in a short space of time. Pulis and the others don't measure up to Moyes.

I don't know how many times I have said this to you. You didn't see what Moyes done at the beginning for Everton because you were growing up. If you knew you wouldn't be comparing him to the others you have.

Moyes didn't bring Everton from bottom to mid-table. He brought them from bottom to consistent European contenders. Top 7 finishers.

Fellaini a flop? Maybe, Mata certainly wasn't. Kept the money to spend wisely again.

I wasn't comparing Mourinho to Moyes. The point was about Mustafi that you made. He slipped away from Moyes. The point with Mourinho's two players is the same. They went on to better things and were wrongly underrated by Mourinho.

Thank you for admitting that above. Last post as I'm going to bed because of work in the morning.

I didn't realise you were actually saying you want Mourinho to take over from Martinez because I didn't think you were that off your head.

That was the best laugh I had in a long long time. You actually think there's a chance Mourinho will take over at Everton in the short term?

I said realistically who would you like to see take over from Martinez. Not in your dreams Swan. Get a grip, zero chance of Mourinho coming to Everton at the moment.

So anyone realistically? O yea, you say you've said positive things about Moyes, I haven't seen them.

Hitting the agree, disagree is so much fun Swan. I love to agree and disagree.

Please Santa send a manager to Everton who can be as beneficial to the club as the legend David Moyes. He was an angel who guided us to the top end of the table. Thank you David.

22 Dec 2015 00:02:04
You asked who I wanted, realistically? Eddie Howe.

You've never seen them because you don't read posts and as you've just admitted, sit there agreeing with yourself and disagreeing with those who have a different view, that may be the saddest thing I've ever seen. That's like liking your own post or viewing your own YouTube video over and over again til it appears popular. That's like bashing the bishop over pictures of yourself.

Thats a new low for narcassism and pathetic on a whole new scale. Cheers for the debate and brilliant laugh I must admit.

22 Dec 2015 08:28:46
Only time I've ever liked my own posts is when debating with you Swan. Because I know it would annoy you. You've proven that by commenting on it. I can dislike any post I wish. Just like anyone else on here.

No more agreeing with my own posts from now on. I pretty much read every post Swan. I don't learn them off or remember every post someone makes. That would take up far too much time.

Thank you for the debate and seriously thank you for the laugh, brilliant.

21 Dec 2015 11:22:48
maybe bill was just putting himself outhere trebour,a sort of hey I am ill but I am still here and will b fighting fit soon.

21 Dec 2015 10:48:51
Hi Eds and the Seasons Greetings to you from over here in Guernsey I have to say I don't really think we are playing that badly we have some very good players in our squad and if we could stop those silly mistakes we could be up there with the Gooners, I watched the Reds match on Sunday and they were played off the park let's give the boys a little time and I am sure we will come good, I would also like to wish all of our posters a very happy Christmas and also thanks Eds for all the good work, GuernseyBlue.

{Ed001's Note - on behalf of all the eds, thank you and I hope you have a great Xmas too.}

21 Dec 2015 12:05:15
Been saying that since the false euphoria of the first season. This is supposed to be the best Squad we have had in years, we get plaudits from all and sundry yet Mr Martinez cannot get the best out of them and there has to be a reason for that. Martin Keown had it right on MOTD when against what the other pundits were saying he said we are under performing. RM does not have a plan B. Look at Leicester, Watford, Palace and tell me what formation they play but just in case you can't it is 4 4 2.

21 Dec 2015 13:31:47
We are the third highest scoring team in the Prem, its our defence that is shocking, and notably the errors from the keeper!

21 Dec 2015 14:44:02
You hit the nail on the head there Wakka mate if only R M could see it.

21 Dec 2015 18:45:33
That's a trait of Martinez. Exact same thing when he was at Wigan. Lovely football score plenty and let in plenty. O yea, let in as many if not more.

21 Dec 2015 06:40:44
Just a thought on a player who I'd love us to try and buy. Not sure how realistic or likely, Ki at Swansea, I think he's class. This isn't MOTD fever either, been a big fan of his since 2013 when I saw him run the game against us at Goodison for Sunderland. Would love him as a long term replacement for Barry, not sure how good he was at Celtic. He's been brilliant since he joined the Prem. Swansea's poty last season and ran the game again yesterday. Good passer of the ball, can carry it, can shoot and tackle. Really like him, think he's a quality player. Thoughts? .

21 Dec 2015 08:40:35
I like him but i'd prefer kante!

21 Dec 2015 11:39:51
My brothers a big sunderland fan so I've seen a lot of this guy from his time there, he's very underrated in my opinion, if they were going to make something happen he was always involved in it somehow. My bro was gutted when he went back to swansea.

21 Dec 2015 11:53:11
Agree, really good player who could replace Barry or fill in for McCarthy. As you said, controls the game excellently, but my favourite aspect of him is his underrated, Lampard-esq ability to make a late run to edge of the area and finish. He's hardly prolific, but seems efficient when he gets the chance. He'd probably go for.

21 Dec 2015 05:29:10
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, O'Neill Believes Leicester City Can Win The League And Wenger Has Sterling Regrets