Everton Banter Archive December 01 2014

 

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01 Dec 2014 23:10:48
2 questions

Is it my memory or didn't gareth Barry get robbed of the ball in a very similar situation earlier in the season that cost us a vital goal too? Almost identical wasn't it?

How can Martinez have a reputation for 'attacking football' when all we do is play it backwards to the defenders all the time? We do anything but attack most of the time.

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The trouble with our possession style seems to be that we:
(1) just pass it around at the back waiting for an opportunity to attack and give the opposition time to form up defensively;
(2) get pressed high up the pitch by the opposition and lose possession and risk conceding goals;
(3) end up knocking aimless long balls out of defence and conceding possession;
(4) lose any urgency or intensity and don't exploit the pace we have in our forwards often enough.
But what do I know? I don't have coaching badges and I never played professional football - I'm just a biased fan who's supported Everton (and watched football at every level) for over fifty years.

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01 Dec 2014 22:58:06
Thinking about the left back situation, its a real headache, 3 quality left backs, do we stick bryan on the wing where he is good, but he's said himself he prefers being left back. Its all well and good saying stick baines in central midfield, but we can't just put hi there and hope, this should of been tested in pre season, its too late to make that call I think. Baines is world class, bryan is boss an loveable, garbutt is young and has lots of potential. One must go, i'm worried that garbutt leaving he will end up at liverpool or arsenal and will go on to be brilliant. For me baines has already shown his worth as evertons greatest ever left back, but it not any of our decisions, i'm scared baines goes and garbutt doesn't reach his potential, but then i'm scared garbutt goes and ends up being world class, bryan for me should be guaranteed safety from leaving, he's too good and has years ahead of him. I know bobby likes having selection headaches but this is just disgusting, its actually horrible having 3 top left backs because we are practically guaranteed to lose one, I feel sick thinking about it. There is no way martinez can be happy with this, i'm definitely not, thoughts lads

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I disagree that Baines is Everton's greatest ever left back. I think Baines is superb, but for me Ray Wilson deserves that accolade. I base that on my belief that a full back, no matter what his attacking prowess is and his direct free kick goals, has defending as his primary responsibility and Wilson was superior imho. Even I'm not old enough to have seen the left backs that we had in the past (in our successful pre-WW2 and pre-WW1 teams), so I can't comment on them!
By the way, even though Andy Hinchcliffe, another left back, wasn't a favourite with many fans, I thought his delivery - especially from corners - was fantastic. We've also had the likes of Keith Newton at our club and he was a top drawer defender.

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For me, the fear is definitely NOT whether RM would like to keep all three (I imagine he would), but that one of them - probably Garbutt, as he's out of contract at the end of the season - will leave to get more first-team appearances.
In the modern game, no player can expect to play every match, but a player has every right to expect to play his fair share. Besides, once a player is over 21 (which Garbutt will be come the start of next season), he uses up one of the 25 squad places and surely has to justify that by getting a fair share of appearances (be they starts or from the subs bench).

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Cowpat you've watched Everton for 50 years and rate Bainsey as the best left back. Do you remember a certain Ramon Wilson who was not only the first attacking full back but was a brilliant defender? As pmuch as I like Bainsey, Ray would be my choice at left back

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Sorry Cowpat mis-read your text but glad we agree on Ramon

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Fancy Smith: You had me going there for a moment with your first post!

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01 Dec 2014 22:51:26
Didnt see the under 21s match, anyone tell me how bryan, joel and kone got on?

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{Ed025's Note - i think they already have swan...by the way i had to delete your last post mate as it had a 4inch gap in the middle, post it again and i will put it up..cheers..

Swan:
Joel made quite a few good blocks and saves that kept us from a pasting.
Kone took his goal well, but looked way short of match fitness and not yet up for a shift in a Premier League match.
Oviedo took his goal well and should be ready at least for a place on the subs bench in our forthcoming matches.
By the way, McAleny looked the pick in the number 10 role and took his goal very cleanly, but he's got a lot of senior players ahead of him at the moment. I'd certainly like to see him get some time in the Europa League match next week.

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02 Dec 2014 20:42:01
Imo Ledson looks a real class prospect and considering he is only just 17 years old bossed the midfield especially in second half

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Fancy Smith: I didn't see it as Ledson bossing the midfield, but I certainly agree that he's an outstanding prospect. However, like so many other posters, I've grown disenchanted with the number of "prospects" that have not convincingly fulfilled their potential at Everton. I just hope that he can develop and progress well without all of the media BS that has been heaped on others (like Barkley to name but one).

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01 Dec 2014 21:39:21
u21 win tonight with Kone, Oviedo and Mcanely all on the scoresheet

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01 Dec 2014 20:13:36
Oviedo, Kone and Robles all playing in that U21 game.

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01 Dec 2014 21:22:31
Both scored and Mcelney got one as well. Apart from that didn't see too much to excite. Though the right back Jones looks decent.

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I watched the match on TV, which admittedly gives a different perspective compared to watching at the ground, so I might not have seen (literally) the big picture.
We were lucky to get a 3-2 victory, as Sunderland frequently carved us open and our defending - as a team and individually - was unsatisfactory throughout imho. Robles kept the score down with some good blocks and saves.
McAleny was the pick for me - he played the number 10 role and retained possession well while also making some good runs with the ball. He took his goal very nicely with a sharp clean finish. His challenge is that there are several senior players ahead of him for that number 10 role in the first team and he doesn't look big enough for the number 9 position.
Galloway looks like he'll make it - although he played left back rather than cente back today.
Kone took his goal well, but he definitely needs to get match fit so that he can work much harder and put a proper shift in.
Oviedo also took his goal very well and looks ready for some first team action
None of the others took my eye - workmanlike at best with a handful of good bits of attacking play - but obviously several of our players are very inexperienced like Ledson (who's only 17) and are still developing as professional footballers.
Anyway, it was good to see how our youngsters are progressing by competing against a Sunderland team that is good at U-21 level.
Supposedly, our club's staff believe that 5 or 6 of these youngsters will come through to the first team. I doubt that - for now it looks like only 2 or 3 are likely. Anyhow, RM apparently wants 2 or 3 youngsters regularly coming through to the first team squad each season.

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{Ed025's Note - thanks for the update sid...appreciate that mate..

01 Dec 2014 20:03:04
Please remember last season Blues. when you were all saying how good RM was. We made 5th last season. We signed Lukaku, Barry and McCarthy. We had just gone 8 games unbeaten before yesterday. We are top of our Europa group. We had 4 or 5 players coming back from injury. We were absolutely knackered after a brilliant team performance last Thursday and at least two of the players involved are in their 30's. I just think the Spurs game was one too many. I think we will do ok and go on another decent run soon. Then we will all be happy chaps again.
Finally, we are above Liverpool in the league.

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{Ed025's Note - good positive post degs...love it mate..

Totally agree with that Degsy. Sure the result was disappointing after the recent 8 game run. But what gets me is after that tremendous Mirrales opening goal, we let Spurs back into the game almost immediately and then proceeded to throw the towel in until the very end when we should have had a penalty. But that was too late. Why not press and go for the 2nd goal? They were there for the taking and it wouldn't have taken much to wind up their fickle fans if we'd scored again.
There again White Hart Lane is not one of our 'happy hunting grounds', but we could and should have taken at least a point from them when considering others have done earlier this season. The RS, WBA, Stoke to name but a few.

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It seems to me that the disappointed posters are NOT overeacting to the Tottenham loss by calling for RM's head or submitting other bonkers knee jerk responses, but are just questioning why we didn't win a game that was there for the taking against a vulnerable team with fickle fans. Why aren't we ruthless in those winning positions and why do we let other teams back into matches?
It's as though when we've won our players say to themselves "wow - how did we manage to do that" and when we don't win they say "oh well - today just wasn't our day".

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01 Dec 2014 19:04:07
Under 21's live now on ssn 2 versus Sunderland. Worth a watch.

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01 Dec 2014 19:03:35
Hi all
I can understand why Martinez defends his players openly to the media, however it is starting to hit home that possession football is not always the answer and its about what u do with it!
We missed Jimmy mac yesterday. Our back four were exposed at times and our passing skills from the back is slow and ponderous which allows teams two options
1. Sit and squeeze or
2. Push up and press
Jags and distin didn't have a good day yesterday and spyds did a number on coleman and baines.
Ross Barkley needs to.start picking his head up. This kid could be a world beater but at present his performances are doing little to give me faith that he is the answer.
Tactically we need plan b and plan c. Romelu was given no service at all yesterday and I did feel sorry for him. We are quick to criticise him but yesterday we looked slow and couldn't really work out how to break down spurs.

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{Ed025's Note - i believe thats a good summary of where we are at AW..

Totally agree.

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The main problem with our possession football is that far too much of is played along the back 4. Then we move it forward 10 yards and pass it accross the pitch again then wonder why the opposition have 8 or 9 men between us and the goal, need to speed it up and if some of these players can't either change the system or the personnel

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{Ed025's Note - fair point rick..

01 Dec 2014 02:54:20
Would you prefer our right & left wide players to be a pair like a Trevor Steven and Kevin Sheedy - or players like an Andre Kanchelskis and Dave Thomas. Actually, imagine all four in their prime being in our squad these days!
Apologies if you're too young to know - let alone remember - these players :-)

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01 Dec 2014 16:59:05
Trevor & Kev every time. Sheedy always looked as though he had all day to make a pass. Stevo just floated across the grass, brings a tear to my eye just thinking about it?

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{Ed025's Note - tricky trev and sheeds for me as well, but i must admit i loved kanchelskis..

Sheedy and Steven, but Dave Thomas, socks rolled down and Kanchelskis on his day were a match for anyone. At least I can say I watched all four on a regular basis, something younger Blues will sadly not be able to fully appreciate.

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{Ed025's Note - thank god im not one of those davey..

Being a bit younger ;) I haven't seen any of those players playing in the royal blue. Hopefully soon enough we have a squad full of players who can bring glory back to Everton

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{Ed025's Note - you missed out there bloo, so you wont have seen a midfield of sheedy, reid, bracewell and steven..absolute quality mate..

Just my luck really, I haven't even seen us lift a trophy, too young to remember the last one, well unless you count big Bill's win on Pointless.

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{Ed025's Note - good stuff bloo.. :)

01 Dec 2014 01:11:32
We seem to have three categories of young players coming through at Everton.
Firstly, there are those like Browning, Garbutt and Ledson who are now often in the matchday squad (or travel with the squad) and sometimes even get on the subs bench and occasionally might get some game time in a first team match.
Secondly, there are those like Pennington, Kennedy, etc., who are sent out on loan to get experience in competitive football and prove themselves.
Thirdly, there are the others - like Green, etc. - who might be promising, but have apparently yet to show they're ready for any first team (be it here or out on loan).
I have little doubt that those in the first group have a future at Everton. I expect that many (hopefully not too many) in the second group will not break through here and will eventually be released by us. As for the third group, I fear that - like so promising young players - most of them will fail to develop as professional footballers (physically, mentally, tactically) and fall by the wayside - which is such a pity. If we can get half a dozen of the current U-18 and U-21 players to actually come through and become regular first-team squad members once they're over 21, then imho that'd be pretty good. Without currently having the means to fund many incoming transfers of quality players, we'll need good youngsters coming through to replace our aging first-team players. Anyone got a magic wand? :-)

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01 Dec 2014 00:50:31
At the risk of paying too much heed to a "story" in the media, it could be that Chelsea might want to recall Atsu from his loan spell at Everton because of a lack of game time. Would any of you be too concerned at him going and another player coming into our squad?

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01 Dec 2014 01:24:20
Id be made up if he went back, weak, unwilling to carry the ball, poor crosser, poor first touch and can't beat a man, it would be a dream if we got cech on loan but it won't happen :(

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Swan: so, if Atsu does go back, which wingers or wide-midfielders (the realistic possibilities of course) would you like us to go for?

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Montero, top class.

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01 Dec 2014 08:27:53
Jefferson Montero has certainly looked good of late, but he's only had a dozen or so matches for Swansea City, so Premier League defenders haven't worked him out yet. Also, he's had quite a few moves - permanent and loan - in his career so far and doesn't appear to stay at a club for too long. Still, he's an interesting suggestion by smeggs.

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Ivant peresic, looks a class player

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01 Dec 2014 15:52:39
I wouldn't be too bothered if he went back purely on the basis that he has not featured too much for us. It's a bit harsh to criticise him as he has hardly had any game time but, from the brief glimpses we have been afforded, I don't think he is any better than what we already have

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01 Dec 2014 18:47:26
Christian Atsu hasn't been given a chance.
From what I've seen he has speed, skill and good technical ability but there is a lot of pressure on any player to show his worth in 5-10 minutes as substitute.
Personally I would pick him ahead of McGeady or any other midfielder being played out of position on the far right.
Those who remember Trevor Steven should remember in his early games, after signing from Burnley, he was distinctly average and it was only after a run in the team his undoubted qualities flourihed.
Come on Roberto give Christian a fair chance to show his worth.

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{Ed025's Note - i agree fancy, i have wanted to see more of him aswell mate, but it seems bobby does not agree..

 
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