Everton Banter Archive February 17 2018

17 Feb 2018 20:56:07
Ed2. I like You, I do. I know we have had our disagreements in the past but you have immense knowledge of the game and insight into football Working, which is great for us lowly fans BUT calling ALL everton fans toxic is a little extreme.
I know there are some fans who go o we the top on their vitriolic abuse of the club but most of us see the bigger picture and can see both sides of a discussion.
Surely there must be Chelsea fans (your club) and other clubs who slag the club, board, team and manager when things don't go as well as they Should?

I don't go on other clubs forums but you seem to sticking it to Everton and Liverpool fans from some comments you have made.

Just an observation.

{Ed002's Note - I don’t write the posts, the Everton supporters do. The Liverpool fans also try to deflect by trying to make everything about Chelsea. Rather embarrassing.}

17 Feb 2018 21:18:44
I understand that ed. We do have some fans who go overboard and often write things in frustration. Just wondered if every club has fans like that or just the Merseyside clubs?

{Ed002's Note - The Merseyside club’s are worse than others - by some distance. And to be fair Liverpool are worse than Everton. Most of the other pages have a few moaners (Arsenal), morons (Chelsea) or a slightly dim support (Manchester United).}

17 Feb 2018 21:31:11
I'm glad ed. Wouldn't want it to be personal against us Scousers. Hahaha.

Suppose all clubs worldwide have their good and bad fans. Think we should just get behind the club and support whoever owns it, whoever is the boss and whoever plays for the club.

{Ed002's Note - you are very right about good and bad, but the English sides have lost the violent edge that still exists in a few countries. But when a side is struggling a bit, what they need is the fans behind them. The owners have had the fans on their backs and SA will be doing what he can.}

17 Feb 2018 21:44:40
True ed. I am glad the UK has managed to calm the hooligan element BUT still baffles me as to why other countries with huge hooligan and racist element don't get banned from European competition (Or other very strong punishment) as we did in the 80s. Uefa and fifa need to be stronger in order to rid the game of this nasty side.

{Ed002's Note - I would agree - there will be a lot watching this coming summer.}

17 Feb 2018 21:48:13
Ed002 I could hug you sometimes. I couldn't agree more.

{Ed002's Note - That can be arranged, but I don’t come cheap.}

17 Feb 2018 22:06:56
I have had my disagreements with Ed002 in the past over players and style. but I totally agree with him about the "toxic" nature of some fans. I have often stated that the term "supporter" should be self explanatory. We are supposed to support. not ridicule, abuse, slag off, constantly boo, make comments that have no foundation etc. My own personal one which Ed002 has also commented on is the way some fans constantly abuse Bill Kenwright. Anyone who has ever talked with the guy or even just listened to him talk would know exactly how passionate the bloke is. He has been accused of taking money out of the club when the opposite is obviously true. And as Ed says, some clubs would love a chairman like him.

17 Feb 2018 22:21:43
Agree over Bill degsy but not all fans will be happy with performances. We should all support the club but be able to call a spade a spade when we play poor.

18 Feb 2018 01:14:53
Mr Kenwright has strived for years to do what's best for this club when, at times, it surely would have been less stressful for him and his family to sell up and walk away. He didn't, and now his patience has paid off and we finally have someone in place with money and ambition to take us forward. It's not pretty at the moment but I firmly believe it'll all come good in the not too distant future COYB.

18 Feb 2018 07:46:26
Agree about performances Geoffjohno, but this is not what Ed002 is on about. He is on about the toxic nature of certain posters who would blame the manager, chairman or any other senior member of the club or player for anything negative with EFC. Sometimes you have to accept that things are just unlucky, unfortunate or indeed that other clubs have done better than you. It is the toxic anger that comes out and has infighting between us when we should all be supporting rather than constant criticism and almost hatred of all things Everton.

18 Feb 2018 08:58:12
I can't speak highly enough of the ED's. I'm not even sure what you guys get out of it. I'd just like to say thanks for putting up with us.

As for the club I'm grateful of Bill. He's always tried to do the right thing. He might not have had the money or the luck but put his livelihood on the line time and again.

Moshiri is learning but he needs to be more like Levy in some ways. He seems like a genuinely good bloke who's fallen in love with the club but sometimes you need to take a step back and rule with an iron fist.

Managers and players come and go. I've never been one to slate players. I'll always put my point of view across if I believe the football has been poor, formations have been wrong or if the same mistakes are being made over again.

Don't know if I would use the word toxic but there are supporters that can't accept the other side of the argument even when proved wrong (probably me) . There are supporters that are constantly negative without reason and are blinded so much that even when things are good they still see bad.

I suppose though what we are all really saying is we only want the best for the club that we love.

18 Feb 2018 09:53:47
I don't understand what you mean by "toxic" in this context. The only meaning I can derive from your response to comments is "critical" So, for example, I have said that I have not seen anything in the brief appearances of Tosun that let's me understand why he was signed particularly in the January rather than summer window. I say that because I see the January window as the opportunity to carry out urgent repairs and fix immediate problems, in our case the failure to replace Lukaku or redesign the side to play without him. In time, Tosun may prove to be an excellent signing. I hope so. However, saying that I this stage I haven't seen the signs and that I don't understand the club's behaviour in relation to Tosun, is neither toxic nor is it trashing Tosun.

18 Feb 2018 10:01:23
Good summary BJU. Perhaps people will see what Ed002 has said and you and me too. Maybe we will start using that word "perspective". Imagine being a Nottingham Forest supporter . 2 European Cups. then obscurity. Or a Leeds Utd supporter? Or even Newcastle. they are a huge club with fantastic support base. plus many others who have been in and out of the Championship/ Premiership? I still remember seeing Manchester United, Manchester City and Chelsea being relegated and then coming back up. We are very fortunate to have had such a long run in the top flight. Things went for us a few times. Man Utd relegated on goal difference to us. Bolton Wanderers having a perfectly good goal disallowed and getting relegated ahead of us. The Wimbledon fightback. If Moshiri keeps going with us and does not get bored, then we have a chance over probably 8 to 10 years to build a squad and get back into that top 6. In the meantime we are likely to unearth some gems of footballers, but they are likely to do what Stones, Barkley, Fellaini, Arteta, Gravesson, Lukaku and probably a few others that I have missed done. ie bugger off to a top 6 team. We have to ride that storm and keep replacing them whilst at the same time have a 10 year plan with youngsters being constantly added to. At this point I praise Baines and Coleman. because I am pretty sure they have had offers from top 6 clubs and remained at Everton when it would have been so easy to jump ship.

18 Feb 2018 10:47:38
Glennk, I don't think the toxic thing was aimed particularly at you. It is something that seems to have gained momentum and is like a mindset. Posters seem to have an agressive view that results in certain people just seeing only the negative in everything Everton. As Ed says, we are here to support and whilst we are free to comment on negative aspects, some people just seem to see only negative and nothing positive at all. I guess it is about perspective. I for one was very critical on Martinez and warned about him relying on one goalscorer and not replacing ageing players with ones of the same calibre or in the peak age group and relying on youth too much. But overall, we are supposed to support when people are trying their best to run the club. Certain people would have you believe that our manager was deliberatley losing away games for instance. that is just ridiculous. He has also been quoted as saying things which are just untrue. Bill Kenwright has been accused of syphoning money out of the club. Even Schneiderlin has been accused of not putting effort in. I actually think he has lost all confidence and is not as good as some thought. but to accuse him of lack of effort? He trains hard all week with the manager watching and he obviously thinks Schneiderlin is training hard. I could go on and on. but the pont has been made and I would now rather have debates and discussions that are real and in the words of Ed002 . not toxic.

18 Feb 2018 10:54:41
Good read Degsy,

i think you are right, No doubt you are aware we have played more games in top flight football than any other club followed by Aston Villa and then Arsenal. It is a record we should be proud of and whilst we remain in the prem no other club can take that away from us. Every game we play in the top flight is us changing the history of the game slightly and so survival must always come first regardless of how we achieve that.

At the moment we like to believe that we are the best of the rest and to some degree we are, we have had a massive blip this season and will do well to make it to 7th, if we do, that will further compound us as being just that. 7th is never going to be good enough for us but you have hit the nail on the head when you say it will always be a battle for us to keep our golden finds. It is going to take many years to break into the top 6 and even more years before we break into the top 4 with any consistency.

I strongly believe that with consistency our better players will be more inclined to stay and that in turn will help us attract the best players. (I do not mean playing style by the way as that will always be changing as we attract more managers) . With the amount of money being banded about in todays game we will always be a club that will be looking to balance the books, The £billion that Moshri has is not that great a figure compared to the monies that the top 6 clubs have at their disposal, but our spending power will also increase over the next decade.

20 Feb 2018 07:38:43
I have not read anyone accusing Allardyce of deliberately planning to lose games. I have read people saying that his selections give the appearance of prioritising some games above others. People seem to think that he does that because his financial package incentivises survival. That has been widely reported whether or not it is the case I don't and can't know. If it is then the club has made a big but common mistake in that it has incentivised something that it doesn't really want. True the club wants to survive in the league but that was never ALL that it wanted and the financial incentive offered to Allardyce should have reflected that. Nobody should be surprised that if a manager is incentivised to survive then he will make survival his priority.

As regards players and their effort, this is something that annoys me greatly. I am certain that it is extremely rare that any player does not try his best. What consitutes his best on any given day varies hugely with such things as carrying an injury and confidence. I think confidence is a huge factor in the team's performance. However, I do agree that the least that the fans should expect is that a player works up a sweat.

17 Feb 2018 08:11:49
How you can say the club has treated onyekuru badly is beyond me, lad oesnt jave work permit so loaned him to a champs league team, oh the injustice! Lookman loses the ball too much so again loaned out to a team challanging top 4 in germany, its disgusting! Vlasic has had a few run outs and looked OK i think he was bought for the future and wasnt expected to play but form of others ment he ad to play, wpuld anyone really want him starting now ahead of Walcott? How dare we not play him he's younger than theo yano its all sam hates kids he does.

Obviously there is sarcasm in my post but come on guys r we doing that badly when it comes to players? For me last time sandro played i said i want him sold i no he didn't get many chances to play but when he did there was a massive lack of effort on his part, my 9 year old lad looked at me and said why is he just jogging round making sure he's marked all the time dad why isn't he moving into space, he's 9 and he saw that! And klassen i just think it hasn't worked out for him, its life it happens sometimes.

17 Feb 2018 09:29:33
It takes time johny but it’s hard when the expectations are so instant. They are all good players from their leagues and time will tell if they are as good in the prem. that’s of course if they are given the chance.

17 Feb 2018 10:58:22
I will use one Christian Erikson as an example, when Spurs signed him, he struggled with the pace of the league but was still given the odd chance from the start and minutes off the bench, Klassen has struggled with the pace but the difference is he hasn't been afforded the same type of blooding that Erikson did, and that is the fault of the manager. Is he worse than Schneiderlein? I think not, yet Morgan gets game time.
He is a central attacking midfielder as is Vlasic, so wouldn't really be taking Theo's place, if Sigs is being played out of position why not give Klassen a go in his preferred position and help him with the transition? Hopefully when the new manager comes in he sees the talent at his disposal and uses it.
I agree about Sandro and he doesn't look suited to this league, but in Klassen there is a player in there with vision and flair, this talent has been wasted and sacrificed for lazy so called defensive midfielder and negative tactics.

17 Feb 2018 12:58:11
He plays in a different role to sniderlain so that's probably y he isn't playing instead of him, and i wpuld like to point out that erikson wasnt brought into a team struggling to stay in the league mate i think if we would have hit the ground running klassen would have featured alpt more but we havnt mate its been a scrap and you can't afford people who aren't up to speed in a relegatation fight as sam has said himself players will get time to addapt once wer safe and i think that's only fair.
And with vlasic who oit of our attack would u drop for him mate out of curiosity if he plays centrally hat keep sig left you said he dloesnt play right so not theo so you would drop Davies? A yiungster who os getting a run in the team to accommodate another youngster? Or rooney? Our top goalscorer this season.

17 Feb 2018 14:17:37
I don't think a players "role" should afford one player time and understanding over how our club handles new players recently.
Not even safe and yet the fans are demanding instant hits like a long established top 4 team. Some people need to pull their necks in.

17 Feb 2018 20:13:29
I would also argue that Scheiderlin was not that much better in his first season. When I look back at all the home games last season, he actually played the same way, hardly a pass was incisive but rather safe or diagonal not exactly breaking fast.

18 Feb 2018 09:41:06
I was not saying drop any of the midfield 3 in Rooney, Gueye and Davies but I guarantee that Sam will come next week as its an away game, Davies will be dropped and the crab will come in.
My point was, when we are 3 nil up then Davies could have came off and Klassen could have got 20 minutes, yet he wasn't even on the bench! This is the type of man management I'm on about, allowing a player time to adapt when the circumstances suit, at 3 nil up a game is won, also at the home games we have coming up against the likes of Newcastle and Brighton who no doubt will come and sit deeper, these games will give Klassen the time and space to maybe do something, but again he won't be on the bench and the crab will come off the bench to slow the game down as always.
If he needed time to adapt and we couldn't give him this, then surely a loan to a Premier league team or Championship side for that matter in January would have been better than having him just train and not feature in match day squads.

19 Feb 2018 20:05:21
I understand what you are saying blue, but who could have foreseen us being 3-0 against palace?
We have to have a defensive sub on the bench and Sam sees something we don't in Schneiderlin, there is an argument about why he doesn't get on the bench, but there you go. Also if Davies is dropped and schneids comes in after the performance in the last game, even Sam must know that it wouldn't be the correct tactic, unless Davies is injured.