Everton Banter Archive November 16 2015

16 Nov 2015 19:40:50
I know this is posted further down the page but which players have become better since they left or were released from our great club? So far we got Rooney and maybe Steve mcmahon. Don't wanna go back decades but players like jeffers, Rodwell, Barmby, fellaini have not or don't seem to become better after Everton. I agree players like lescott won more but was he a better player?

16 Nov 2015 21:55:18
Rooney was always going to be a world class player - it was clear when he as 16 (even younger) . He moved to ManUtd to win trophies (and we needed the money) , but he's hardly a case of "the one that got away".
Looking at this issue from another angle, what about players we released as youngsters and then brought back for a reasonable transfer fee - a prime example that I can think of was Mark Ward. I'm sure there are others (were the likes of Baines or Jagileka ever on Everton's schoolboy books? ) , but I can't bring any to mind at the moment. I'm sure some other posters can remember some examples.

16 Nov 2015 23:34:03
Rooney done Everton F. C. a favour by signing for us first. I honestly believe he wanted to help Everton. He was courted by plenty of clubs, including Utd before he signed for Everton.

We got a huge fee at the time. Obviously I would of preferred he stayed with Everton but he insisted on playing for Everton first. Even though he went on trials to other teams he was only going to sign for Everton.

At least we got £25m for him (or supposedly) That really helped the club at the time. He could of signed for Utd from the start if he wanted. Some question his loyalty. After what came out about when he signed for Everton this year I have a lot more respect about how he went about it.

It is my humble and honest opinion Rooney wanted to get a massive transfer of money for Everton. I know it was for himself also but I think he had Everton interest's at heart also and helped the club by signing for Everton first and then getting £25m for the club.

He wasn't sure he'd make it big but I'm sure he had a strong indication that he was going to reach the very top before he committed himself to Everton.

On player's leaving and not doing so well. I think it was the way Moyes set up the team to play. Individually they weren't as good as they were collectively. The team was so organised that player's from time to time appeared to be better than they actually were individually.

That's my opinion on the players leaving in the Moyes era anyway. That takes us back to around the year 2000. Before then I'm not too sure.

{Ed025's Note - your obviously a nice guy NBTB, but maybe a little naive if you think rooney gave everton the slightest thought when going to utd..i may be an old cynic but thats my take on things mate..

16 Nov 2015 23:50:19
I prob am nice guy Ed even though I don't like being told it. Rather be totally masculine really 😉 it's not when he left I'm talking about. It's more when he signed for Everton he was thinking of how Everton would benefit from selling him.

It came out that Utd tried to sign him as a youth. He wasn't having any of it. He could of easily ignored Everton and went straight to Utd and cut out Everton altogether.

But he didn't I think then he was thinking of Everton. I also liked the way his kids were born in Liverpool and have the Everton jerseys.

I know he had his own interests. In hindsight he was totally right to pursue them. I think he still holds a candle for Everton.

{Ed025's Note - he is still an evertonian NBTB its in the blood mate..

17 Nov 2015 12:12:44
Thank you Ed. Don't like when people put fellow Evertonians down. He done what he had to do imho.

{Ed025's Note - and i dont have a problem with that NBTB, im not too keen on them kissing their new badge in front of supporters of their former club though mate..

17 Nov 2015 16:07:50
I agree with you there Ed. What they be thinking of at times is hard to understand. Some supporters like to do the same and give players that leave unnecessary stick. I know that's no excuse to diss the club.

Its a merry run around I suppose.

16 Nov 2015 11:25:23
Apologies in advance if I've got my facts wrong, but I understand that these seven first-team-squad players (aged-over-21) have contracts that currently expire in June 2016': Hibbert, Gibson, Oviedo, Osman, Pienaar, Junior and Kone. There's also Mattioni (the Brazilian free agent we've just signed) and several youngsters (like Stanek, Grant, etc. ) who I believe are also only contracted until then.
Other than Kone (who's been a revelation recently) , I can see the other "first-teamers" I've named (even Oviedo) moving on at the end of the season. As for Mattioni, Stanek, Grant and other youngsters, I haven't seen - or read - enough about their performances to offer an opinion.
Add in other players who might want to move on (or need to be moved on) to get regular playing opportunities - like McGeady, Naismith, Mirallas, McAleny and other youngsters - and it could be a big turnover in the squad at the end of the season (maybe some even in January)
Then consider the aged-over-30 brigade - like Howard, Baines, Jagielka and Barry - and that's around half of our current 25-man aged-over-21 squad that could move on during the next couple of years or so.
We do have a good core of younger players in the squad - and some good under-21 players who will come through (especially defenders) - but that still imho leaves us needing to bring in a fair amount of quality from outside, which we'll have to do on a limited budget despite the television money, as every other club will get similar television money and will be competing with us for the better players.
It becomes clearer that, as Ed001 has stated, Everton needs to get the stadium issue addressed before we can attract the investment (new owners) that could take us up into the current echelon of successful English Premier League clubs.
Does anyone have any views on any of the above?

16 Nov 2015 11:38:44
Kone's contract doesn't expire, he has triggered an appearance clause which has added another year. I expect the rest will move on, or at least, hope move on. Think Grant will be offered a new deal as Martinez really rates him, no idea what will happen with McAleny.

16 Nov 2015 12:22:32
Swan: you're quite right about Kone's contract extension, but, as I said, I'd have expected him to have stayed on anyway given his form now that he's recovered from injury.
As for the others, if, as many of us expect (and some of us clearly hope! ) , they do move on, then the question surely is can we bring in enough quality - either coming through the ranks or recruited from outside - to adequately replace them and, hopefully, improve the overall squad. It does seem an awful lot of experienced players that will need to be replaced - and that amount of turnover in a short space of time isn't usually successful.

16 Nov 2015 12:24:45
I would imagine then that a fair few will be moved on in January as we will need to recoup some funds before they all go on a free. We just don't have the funds to let this lot go for nothing and replace with quality. Or the other alternative is to extend contracts.

16 Nov 2015 14:00:30
Toffee Ace: it would be nice to get some fees for those players, but I doubt if we'll get much for them considering their age and fitness records. I'd also doubt that we would give them contract extensions, especially if their fitness is in question and they couldn't be available to play a reasonable number of games (even off the substitute bench) . There'd surely be no point in them using up a place in the 25-man aged-over-21 squad if they weren't capable of being selected let alone of actually playing. As our younger players turn 21, it's them who'll need to take the places in the squad.

{Ed025's Note - there seems to be a trend of pay as you play coming into the game sid, which would be ideal for fringe or injury prone players, but as you rightly say they would be taking up a squad place mate..

16 Nov 2015 14:22:30
In my opinion, of those whose contracts expire next year, Junior needs to go (not good enough) , Gibbo needs to go (injuries) , Oviedo needs to go (I love him but injuries will have left him our 4th choice left back when Garbutt gets back) . Osman, Pienaar and Hibbo need to go (age and injuries, although you could make a case for any of those being offered a coaching role) .

If Mattioni does well on his loan and remains fit he will stay. Grant needs a new contract, but most of the other youngsters will need to go.

As for the longer contracts, pretty much all should stay (except McGeady, he's so poor) . Howard will stay regardless of whether he's good enough or not. We should get another season out of Kone, and Barry, hopefully two or three from Baines and Jags.

{Ed025's Note - replacing them will not be cheap tommy and i doubt it will be done in one go, i agree with most of what you are saying mate but knowing our spending prowess i feel that it will take a number of windows to achieve it..

16 Nov 2015 16:42:22
Which players exactly need replacing? Mean, Osman and Gibson. We have Besic, Barry, McCarthy, Cleverley, Barkley and if need be Ledson or Grant. On McGeady and Pienaar. We have Doofy Loofy, Lennon, Cleverley and Mirallas. Could sort that out with a loan (like Atsu, just not as terrible) . Hibbert doesn't play anymore and we have Coleman, Browning and Stones (McCarthy, Cleverley and depending how he gets on, Mattioni to play there) . Love Bryan but again, easily sorted there with Galloway, Garbutt and Baines, Mori and Barry if desperate. Who exactly is it we are in desperate need of cover for? The Goalkeeper situation is never getting sorted, we do need another striker. Don't see why we can't promote some players and get some squad players in if need be. We have cover everywhere bar up front. Filled with Defenders, in fact, we have too many Defenders. Loaded with Midfield options, short up top and our 2nd choice keeper is better than our 1st choice so sorted there. Getting an injury there actually benefits the team.

16 Nov 2015 17:23:59
Hibbert, Oviedo, Osman, Pienaar should go, but I know they will stay, two or even four of our first team will on there way in January, (and who can blame them) and then what will we be left with? a lot of you will say, no way, but wait and see?

KEN and Co must go.

16 Nov 2015 17:52:55
Ok stig, say you get your wish and 'Ken and Co go'. What happens then? Who takes over then? And what will they do?

Ed you make a good point about it taking a few windows to achieve that big of a change to the squad. It is time or very near time for the most of them players to go.

Surely Gibson would be kept. He is a quality player and maybe he's finally over his injuries. Same could be said for Oviedo. Oviedo is a good left hand side midfielder as well as left back and Baines might not have as many seasons left in him as some people think. Prob will be 3 or 4 seasons but who knows. He could get injured easily again.

If we get into Europe I'd expect some of those to be kept on. Could end up being valuable if we get into Europe and need a large squad with the necessary balance of experience within the squad.

16 Nov 2015 18:32:19
NBTB, both Gibbo and Oviedo are injured, I like both as players but neither are as good as the others in their position and neither will ever get over their injuries. Especially Oviedo as we need to develop Garbutt.

16 Nov 2015 20:55:25
I know Oviedo is injured. Isn't Gibson back for awhile now? He played Carling cup and was on the bench in the last game as far as I know. Isn't he in the Ireland squad. Last Friday and tonight.

You could be right Swan he might never get over his injuries. I'd give him this season to see if he gets over them. Wouldn't it be a shame, after standing by Gibson for years of torturous injuries, if he left and played loads more football.

I think after spending so much time, money and effort I'd stick by him for another year to see how he goes on.

I have to disagree with you about how good he is. Imo if he got a run of games injury free he could turn out to be our first choice midfielder. Barry has this season but next year if Gibson is still here he could be as good as McCarthy, Besic, Barkley and Clev.

He certainly has the potential. If he got injury free and games under his belt he could be like a new signing.

Oviedo I pitty because we are well covered on the left and he was a cracking player. Just very unfortunate.

16 Nov 2015 21:23:42
Sorry yeah Gibson is fit, he's had injury problems all his career, he's not getting over them at 27. Think we've spent too much effort and money on him, though I would keep him this season as we can't really sell him. In the summer I would definitely release him as he is never going to complete a season and is taking up a spot in the squad that can be taken by a young player.

16 Nov 2015 22:19:26
You may be 100% correct Swan and that may happen. I can't tell the future so imo it could be possible he's over his injuries. Kone spent a long time out and is walking on water at present. How can you be so sure Gibson hasn't the worst behind him?

16 Nov 2015 22:51:54
Because Kone had one freak injury, he didn't have about 40 injuries since he joined. Kone isn't picking up niggling injuries every game he plays.