13 Sep 2016 21:48:50
It is not often I have smoke coming out of my ears and fuming, but I cannot believe a poster on another site, a Blue, believes the reason Everton made a £200k donation to Bradley was to deflect our poor transfer deadline away, and to receive some cheap publicity to our club.
Now we have all at a one time or another, not been happy at certain dealings in the past, but Everton Football Club and our great supporters, got it spot on last night, sheer class, that's why I am proud to be a Blue.
Rant over.
13 Sep 2016 23:27:26
Some blues are deluded and see bad in everything. The transfer window wasn't the best but it definitely wasn't bad.
Probaby a kopite in disguise.
14 Sep 2016 07:08:57
Absolute joke! Just proves that some posters just look for any reason to be negative even in light of such a positive performance and kind gesture.
14 Sep 2016 10:56:04
To be perfectly honest if that is the club defecting from a poor transfer deadline day and wanting cheap publicity but help poor children that need funds that may save their lives then the more the merrier. I would be more than happy for EiTC to arrange similar projects than waste millions on over inflated valuations of mediocre players that jump ship at the next big pay check. Some people do really need a reality check. I am pretty sure from what I have seen so far in our transfers that both SW and RK know what they are doing and will get who they want at a price that reflects the ability of the player without substantially overpaying.
14 Sep 2016 11:44:16
On the transfer front, we signed a keeper, youth keeper, centre half, winger, defensive midfielder, youth striker and striker (on loan) . We are joint second (early days, i know) , best start in a long time, have a great bunch of youngsters ready for first team, Holgate, Davies, Dowell, Walsh, Connolly. No need to mean about transfer window in my opinion.
14 Sep 2016 16:14:31
Spot on dentie. Last season we would of all been happy with a new manager an backroom staff. Now we've got the best man in koeman an eagle eye in walsh, new players an some class youth coming through an yet some people are still whingin.
14 Sep 2016 18:57:09
4 of the signings in the first team immediately. Had theclub been successful with another 30 million player, that would have been 5 new first team players. How can anyone moan about lack of quality signings? The only downer in my view was losing Stones who will develop into the England captain and a very good footballer. But overall, it was a good window.
{Ed025's Note - i agree degsy..
14 Sep 2016 22:24:42
Dunno Degsy, Holgate looks composed on the ball and can also dribble and play out just like Stones, maybe just maybe this was noted when rubber stamping Stones transfer.
15 Sep 2016 08:53:54
I am so happy with the quality of the signings that I can brush aside any concerns about this last window without effort .
I think Stones will be happier now he has left us, England skipper? that remains to be seen i. e. how he progresses at City, things change in football all the time some players look like world beaters one season and can look mediocre another season. Wayne Rooney looked like the second coming at one stage of his career Harry Kane seems to be in need of somekind of footy viagra, Joe Hart can look like a prize plum when he wants to. . not making any predictions here however I wouldn't be
surprised if one day in the not too distant future he (Stones) has a slight regret he never stayed with us
although he seems quiet and doesn't shout his mouth off so we may never find out.
15 Sep 2016 09:15:31
Blue247, like I said. a great transfer window overall. but I knew immediately the 1st time I saw Stones that he was a special footballer. I likened him to Bobby Moore and we all know how successful he was. If we had Stones and Williams together, that would be an amazing partnership. but unfortunately will never happen. Believe me. Stones is a special player. Watch how he performes at Man City where he is surrounded with top quality footballers. He would have been better with us too with the signings we just made, but that can't happen now. Footballing center halves are as rare as hen's teeth. Footballing center halves who can do everything are even rarer. I wish him well but hope we do better.
15 Sep 2016 10:18:44
Degs, I don't doubt you spotted his potential straightaway mate!
Wasn't having a pop at you about the England skipper thing just saying his career needs to progress for him to become the finshed article and the comparison with Bobby Moore I understand quite well however Moore progressed with perhaps his own natural gifted genius, Stones progression imo depends on who is coaching him as we saw with RM now he has Pep so say no more (no pun intended btw) 😉.
15 Sep 2016 10:42:10
I never thought you were having a go mate. No worries. Sorry if I came over a bit authoritarian on it. but I was involved in youth coaching for many years and believe I know what is wrong in English football. It is a lack of willingness to allow kids to use the ball and learn skills when in defence. Pep obviously sees it the same way. I even hear the likes of pundits on match of the day saying there is a time and a place to "play football" and center halves should boot it into the stands. Iam sorry, but I am with Pep on this and the only place to play football is on a football pitch. and that includes defence. When someone with Stones' ability arrives and at his age he can only get better. then that should be nurtured and worked on. Bobby Moore and Colin Todd were 2 of the best (and Howard Kendall to a degree) defensive footballers and all 3 could play football anywhere on the pitch and make others look ordinary. English football has suffered because of this. Even Ashly Williams looks very comfortable on the ball. and his passing out of defence is one of the reasons we are looking so much more composed in defence. Youth football is unfortunately run by Dad's who want their Sons to emulate their own era of hard tackling and booting the ball into the stands when things look difficult. Totally wrong in my view. I heard that Man City's 1st half performance against United was the best premier performance by any team ever (heard it on the radio) . That does not surprise me and I bet Stones was instrumental in a lot of that.
{Ed001's Note - did the radio really say that? They must be blinded by the sun shining out of Pep's backside if they did! It wasn't even the best performance on that day in the Prem. I really don't get this verbal masturbation over Stones or Pep, neither are special. Stones can't defend, he is nothing like Moore, who could defend to a world class standard. Stones has no idea about defending at all. Pep overcomplicates everything, which is why his teams get gradually worse over time, rather than improve.
I agree with you in terms of every player should be able to pass the ball, in fact it annoys me when you have the Tony Pulis-type who can only kick opponents. However, Stones is too far the other way, he needs to be taught how to defend as well. There is a skill to positioning yourself, as well as to being able to pass the ball, but it is a skill that totally escapes Stones. Playing for a Pep team will just mask that, rather than see him improve, as they will have so much possession he will not be required to defend enough for his weaknesses to be highlighted. Until he pulls on an England shirt.}
15 Sep 2016 11:39:12
Take it you are not a fan of Pep then Ed001 😂 I have to agree with you though ed when it comes to the art of defending it's more about your starting posit ion as such which enables you to make the tackle. Not all centre halves are blessed with pace but are positionally aware on the pitch so are able to defend against forward play. I said it often last season that as good as Stones is with the ball he can't defend and is often caught ball watching and strikers found it easy to lose him. I always thought with his ball skills he would be better suited to a deep lying midfield role in front of a back 4.
{Ed001's Note - does it show I am not a big fan of Pep? He is a good coach, maybe even great, but he tries to be too clever, makes everything so complicated when football is a simple game at its best. Plus footballers are too thick, in the main, to understand complicated instructions, so they need it simple.}
15 Sep 2016 11:45:30
Stones, although a good footballer, isn't as world class as people believe. For me, he has joined a club that makes it easier to be a footballer, i. e. joining a club like Hull, where he would be defending and under pressure most the game, would show how good he is without another ten world class players around him. For me, Holgate has shown sign of being a undoubted successor to Stones. Also people go on about wanting to play for Pep, like he is some genius manager. I could get Barcelona winning game, then he gets Bayern gig. Again, no really hardship there, then Citeh job. I wonder if he would be Citeh boss after impressing at Real Betis, then Hoffenheim. Just seems to have fallen on his feet for manager jobs.
15 Sep 2016 13:31:42
Spot on there dentielad, Pep doesn't make good teams great he comes into established challengers and adds to them. Could he take over a side like us for example and use his tactical genius to have us challenginger for the title? I don't think so, I also don't think he is as good as he thinks he is and that is why he never has long term deals, so he is remembered for his success albeit in a short space of time.
15 Sep 2016 15:39:25
I'm a massive Barcelona fan and have been since the early 90's. Always manage to get to at least two matches a year.
I kind of agree with ED001 over Pep. He got most of his praise from his time with Barcelona but Rijkaard had already started transforming Barcelona to the old days of Cruyff and managed to wrestle the momentum away from RM. FR stayed a year too long really but the team was already a good one.
In terms of defence it's hard to say. Barcelona had so much of the ball but it did improve under Pep.
What I would say though is that Enrique's team is much better as a unit and doesn't tend to rely on anyone other than the forward players. Defensively they look better now than Peps team but again it's really hard to say due to their ball retention.
For me Enrique is much better all-round and would fit just as well in any league. Maybe more so in our league were he likes high pressing and faster tempo. Plus his black trainers with white soles are spot on.
As for Stones. I think he's a good player but takes far too many risks and always at the wrong time. He will get chances to make mistakes at City and he will improve, potentially becoming England's best defender but for me I would rather have a defender first and someone good on the ball second.
Different players though fit different systems. Stones bringing the ball out of defence is good for a team with controlling possession. A Jags, Mori or Williams is better for our system in getting the ball more direct and quicker out to the front men.
Soon though in this league the fear of playing Pep will go away and he will see what this league can be about. It will be how he tackles this when he plays a Pulis type team on whether he sinks or swims.
15 Sep 2016 15:46:02
Well one thing I am sure about is that my posts generate debate. Ed001 yes I did hear that on the radio but did not see the gamemyself so can only quote what I heard. Re Stones not being able to defend, I disagree on that point. I will explain. under Martinez, all our defenders lookedpoor. These are the same defenders that looked top notch under Moyes and look top notch again under Koeman. Even Jags looked awful the last 2 seasons. Distin looked awful and was shipped out. Mori looked ok. but didn't play that many games and even Coleman and Baines started to look poor and many supporters were suggesting we get rid. of course now they look good again. I believe Stones is top notch and we will see over the course of the season. I have only seen glimpses of Man City, but what I have seen is good. I will be surprised if they are not top by 10 games in. Here is a quote from the match, "City - without suspended striker Sergio Aguero - were simply in a different class to Mourinho's expensively reassembled Manchester United as they overran them in midfield, created space and chances while remaining cool under pressure. " And remember City were without Aguero and Kompany.
{Ed001's Note - nothing to do with Martinez, Stones' errors were individual errors, nothing to do with the style of play and everything to do with stupidity.}
15 Sep 2016 16:46:56
Of course it was partly due to Martinez. He dictates the strategy/ tactics etc. Re it being stupidity. only one way we will find out. by the course of the season. I am already eating humble pie from comments I made in the close season. so a few more slices will do me no harm. but believe me I will serve you up some after say 10 games when City are walking it and Stones looks like the reincarnated Bobby Moore! lol.
{Ed001's Note - it was nothing to do with Martinez, no manager tells their centre back to do the stupid things Stones did. You can make excuses for him all you like, but Martinez was not the reason Stones couldn't defend. He was the reason Stones' deficiencies were spotted, as he was exposed and asked to defend, but the mistakes were all down to Stones. He will never look like Moore, it is embarrassing enough that you know that little about Bobby Moore that you compared the two at all. Stones uses pace to make up for his inability, Moore was not quick at all, so had to position himself correctly. You really should stop with comparisons that have no basis in reality. It wouldn't matter if Stones becomes the greatest player in the world, he will never play like Moore so the comparison is ridiculous.}
15 Sep 2016 20:04:52
Have to agree with Ed001 with the position rather than pace, Dave Watson was a top defender IMO but lacked pace, Jags to an extent and even good old Richard Gough to name just a few from who I have seen myself, last 2 seasons our midfield was as good as none existent and yes that exposed the back line and Stones inability to put it in Row Z, that is the players choice when on the field as when you are a defender you defend first and foremost regardless of the coach wanting you to play it out from the back. I like a good debate and also like to read other people's opinions as that is what it's all about, maybe if I had to compare Stones to another player it would be a modern Rio Ferdinand can't join the Bobby Moore debate as I'm only 34 but as much as I like a defender with guile, I will always be a fan of the no nonsense defender who relies on his position rather than pace. Give me a Williams over a Stones any day.
16 Sep 2016 07:17:50
Well I still disagree. based on the fact that you are missing my point. My comparisson is based on how comfortable and cool they look. not the comparisson of position or pace. Yes I do know Bobby Moore was not the fastest. But I also think Stones is not that quick anyway! The comparisson was as footballing defenders. I think Stones needs to learn certain things. that I would agree on. but you will see that as he matures, he will develop that knack of positional sense and when to step in. Under Martinez, we suffered a tactic of getting 10 men behind the ball and Stones was used as the last one back on many occasions. In particular he suffered positional inadequacies from set pieces. That willnot be so apparent at Man City. If he is so poor, why is it that just about all the top European teams wanted him?
{Ed001's Note - the fact that all the top European teams looked at him and none made a bid would suggest they didn't want him. The only teams that went for him was a team desperate to buy more English players, in Man City, and, last season, one who also wanted more English players. Both wanted him as the best of the English players that could possibly be bought, not because he is some kind of superstar defender. There are no good English defenders out there or players for that matter, for these teams to buy. If you are going to base your opinions of a player's quality on the teams who have a player scouted, then you will be thinking every player is wonderful, as there are upwards of 20 scouts from various European scouts at every Premier League game to watch players. There are usually more at Portugese, Spanish, Italian, French, Dutch etc league games, but that does not mean they are better. It is about potential availability. Everyone knew Stones wanted out, so they had a look at him, it is normal, it means nothing. You had more scouts watching some of your youth players each week, but that doesn't mean they are better, just that they are potentially available for a more reasonable price.}
16 Sep 2016 08:21:41
On a positive side to this Stones debate, is the money Everton made from his move to City tbh I never thought anyone would pay more than ( off the top of my head ) £25m for him .
16 Sep 2016 10:15:49
And also Barnsley Blue247 they benefitted with a nice tidy sum which was also good as they are not a cash rich club.
16 Sep 2016 10:39:52
Well perhaps none made a bid? Of that I am not 100% sure. However, if you really are suggesting that there are no good English defenders and he is the best. and that is why City bought him. just because he is English? Or the best of what is bad? That makes no sense to me. I personally find that although I agree that Stones did make some mistakes, his overall play should be praised. His willingness to learn and control and pass rather than just boot the ball into touch when under pressure should be praised not criticised. Where I would agree was that on certain set pieces his heading ability or positional sense was not quite there. So Everton conceded goals from these. We conceded only one from memory (maybe 2 at most) from when he lost possession as the last defender. I would also compare him with David Luiz. Another defender willing to "play football". It is the old view of center halves are stoppers and full backs should wellie the ball into the stands that has held back English football. I worked with one particular coach who would just not support this view and his kids just blossomed and became wonderful footballers. He was last involved with WBA which is a bit weird with what you say about Pulis lol! Anyway. let's see after 10 or so games how Stones has got on.
{Ed001's Note - like I said, I agree that defenders should be able to play from the back, but they still should defend first and know when to play. That is a skill that is missing from most. There are times they have to just boot it into touch and get into position, Stones needs to learn that.
As for Man City buying him, they want to increase the English quotient of the squad, as they want to keep an English core. Knowing Hart was going and Delph is a fringe player, the club were desperate to add someone else English to the side, and they will continue to look for more over coming seasons. Stones was seen as the best available option, due to age and the lack of any top quality English players to buy, added to City's desperate need for a centre back.
By the way, I seem to be one of the few who actually likes Luiz as a player, despite his concentration issues. It is not Stones' ball playing that bothers me, it is his defensive acumen, which I do not think is outweighed by his ability on the ball. I am not convinced he is as good on the ball as is made out, I think he just stands out because most English centre backs are cloggers.}
16 Sep 2016 16:00:35
Stones main problem was overconfidence. However, if you take his first game for city against Sunderland he made the same type of error when with us. He rushed out to the ball instead of defending his space. Something that happened to us far too often over the past two years.
The problem I always had with Stones is that he took too many chances and I don't think i saw a game he was involved in were he didn't take that chance or make a mistake.
I'm not making any other comparison other than this with Holgate but he looks 100 times more solid and a much better defender than Stones. He sees danger before it has happened and puts himself in the right position to not have to go to ground and make a last ditch tackle.
Bobby Moore who has been mentioned is nothing like Stones and neither is a Beckenbaur or even a Pique. Stones for me is more a poor mans Viera at this point in his career and it could even help him moving him forward. Not a strong enough defender so is pushed up to defensive midfielder like Luiz was at Chelsea before he left.
It's no coincidence that we look more composed and solid at the back since he has been replaced with Williams and I for one wouldn't swap him back. However, i do like the lad and wish him the best of luck.
17 Sep 2016 07:57:28
Well there we go. Now you are admitting there is a time and place to "boot it into touch". and that was my argument all along. Whilst that opinion is accepted, the England team and England defenders will never progress. Kids are taught this from an early age because youth football emulates the top football. So our kids are taught to "boot it into touch" when they are under pressure on the ball. The fans at Goodison expect this. As does the whole of English football fromgrass roots to the top. Young players (like Stones and Luiz) come into the English Leagues and fans, pundits, managers and nearly everyone in football see them as players making the "wrong decisions" becuase they donot boot it into touch everytime they are under pressure. Whilst I would accept that Ashly Williams is far too old to change his game and really does need to boot it into touch. players like Luiz and Stones have "broken the mould" and are developing skills that allow them to make alternative choices when under pressure. They may get it wrong on occasions. However, based on what I have already said, booting it intotouch every time ensures that some of these decisions are wrong too. It is a philosophy I was introduced to that comes from Ajax of Amsterdam and their production line of talented skilled youngsters do make mistakes at times. But overall they have had more success at producing quality young footballers more than just about anyone else over the years. So yes Stones and Luiz will make the odd mistake and get caught in possession. However the other 99 times when they retain possession may in fact lead to a goal for their team. This is where I believe Martinez comes in. to retain possession aimlessly without pushing forwards and just passing the ball sideways and backwards and forwards without penetration (like we did under Martinez) allows the opposition to close you down. usually in your own defensive positions. hence Stones' mistakes. Hence Luiz making fewer mistakes but still the odd one. I will leave it at that.
{Ed025's Note - thank christ for that..
17 Sep 2016 08:08:05
You can put down the rosary beads now ed.
{Ed025's Note - im thinking of taking up the priesthood 247 just to get me through the day.. :)
17 Sep 2016 11:34:56
Some people say I am opinionated. but that's just their opinion!
17 Sep 2016 15:55:54
Did you see Luiz position last night for Liverpool 1st goal? If he was more a defender than a show pony he would have had the positional sense to know that the area behind him was not covered in case of a deep cross. I still say defenders should defend first and be footballers second.
17 Sep 2016 16:49:59
Hate to say it, but watch Man City again then.
{Ed001's Note - you show such a lack of understanding of what is being said, due to being on your soapbox, that it is embarrassing. People get on their backs because they do make the wrong decisions. It is not because they sometimes attempt a trick, but because they attempt a trick and lose the ball costing their team a goal. If you can't see the difference between booting it into touch when under pressure and booting it into touch when there is no outball, they are under pressure and the rest of the team is out of position then you need to give up talking about football, as it is clearly not for you. I almost yearn for the days when you obsessed over how many goals the midfield got compared to the previous generation.}