Everton Banter Archive December 12 2015

 

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12 Dec 2015 22:14:23
Agree Tim Howard really has gone past his sell by date.
But come on guys a weak goalkeeper really shouldn't make any difference between Everton and Norwich!
I really believe this team has the potential to do great things. The tragedy is they are lions led by donkies.
How many goals have we conceded from corners and set pieces since Martinez and his coaching staff arrived?
Week on week we are a better team and week on week we are throwing away a golden opportunity for Champions League next season.
When that opportunity goes our stars will leave for the chance of testing themselves against the best (older posters will remember the 80s ban) .
Yes blame Howard but at the end of the day consider the guy in charge of the best talent this club has had for 30 years, yes he has (due credit) helped to assemble it, but for the love of God he sure can't manage it.

Believable4 Unbelievable4

13 Dec 2015 04:35:27
what aload of bull no clue and blind to wot martinez has in his very short done for our club just mine opinion:)

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{Ed001's Note - why don't you tell people what he has done then, instead of a pointless response that offers nothing.}

13 Dec 2015 09:05:50
Well said Ed, totally agree. Martinez inherited a decent team and a healthy club financially. Any manager could of done what Martinez has done so far.

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13 Dec 2015 12:25:08
Spot on mushy, sick of his square pegs in round holes team selections, picking of favourites, and baffling use and non use of substitutions, plus his freezing out of the team of players.

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13 Dec 2015 12:40:59
Is this a new strategy Ed having a go at any one who tries to defend RM or the team etc.

Are we only allowed to moan now!? This site is becoming worse every day.

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{Ed001's Note - I asked him to put forward a point, not had a go at him. If it has got worse because of people like you who offer nothing but stupid posts like this, instead of making any kind of worthwhile comment.}

13 Dec 2015 12:54:32
How is asking you a direct question a stupid post!? Calling it a pointless point was having a little dig at him. Was it not!?

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{Ed001's Note - are you being serious? The original post was nothing but a personal dig at another poster, yet you are having a go at me? Embarrassing yourself lad.}

13 Dec 2015 13:09:27
Ed I am on this page frequently and have seen Coby post his opinion about what he thinks RM has done or not.
Do you want him to repeat it every time!? If he had directed his comment at Martinez or Bill you would not have asked him to explain it ir called it pointless because that is allowed. Hence my question and now you're getting touchy because of questioned your curt response!

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{Ed001's Note - obviously not on this page frequently enough to have a single clue what I would do. How on earth do you know what I would do? You are just being a complete arse about something you have no idea about. You have no idea what I would have done, stop making up bull in your head to try and create some sort of scenario where everyone is against Bobby M. I really do not care whether people are posting posts for or against him, I just want them to explain why they disagree, or not waste our time posting up petty childish digs. I am getting touchy because you are being an arse, not because you questioned me. You may have seen Coby post his opinion, but I haven't. Now please just give it up and stop making up crap in your head to suit your twisted opinion on other people, we are not all like you who are so deluded they think everything is some kind of plot.}

13 Dec 2015 19:26:57
Have to agree with the ed on this one. Mushy bases his opinion on facts. Wereas coby comes back with the look what Martinez has done so let's do that. He plays a centre forward wide left and leaves an actual wide man in fact 2 in Lennon and Mirralas on the bench. This tactic hasn't worked since Sunderland and it only worked then because they were awful. we concede a ridiculous amount of goals from set pieces due to the zonal marking this manager obviously prefers and yet we don't score any from set pieces so when we do actually get a corner we might as well put the ball out straight away and regroup save getting hit on the break. He insists on picking players on reputation rather than form, eg Howard and most recently Baines, who yesterday I felt was caught out of position along with Kone far too much and left Mori isolated dealing with this. Barkley is my next Martinez baffler, what position was he actually playing yesterday as Cleverly was more advanced imo, so is Ross now a holding midfielder with Barry? So coby and aflm I am interested to hear what he has actually done? And don't say a league cup semi final because unless we get the final then that's the same as what Moyes done. highest points tally can maybe use that but again that was more a mixture of a solid defensive unit that was already in place which he has now shattered. The honeymoon period is over and this season was a perfect season to break into that top 4 but the managers grudges and poor tactics will cost us come the end of the season and I would be willing to bet my mortgage we don't get European football at all.

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13 Dec 2015 21:42:10
Not going to bother blue tried replying twice to ed here already neither was put up only time will tell :)

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12 Dec 2015 20:15:31
Frustration guys, that's what we are all feeling. Talk about over reaction from some!
We have the best squad we have had for years and one which is young. We are playing attacking expansive football which makes every game exciting. We could have scored 7 goals first half and it is the nature of football that Norwich where never going to be the same 2nd half. The premier league this season is the most unpredictable (I have my bets to prove it I haven't won a thing for ages) . We are playing well and disappointed to get draws in recent games against Palace who have had some great results and are very good away team but we unlucky to hit the woodwork x3 times. Bournmouth a team that have beaten chelsea and utd now and they snatched it from us in extra time. We should of won the game today at half time but this is football we have a lot of young players who are learning and I think they will learn from ocassions like today and Bournmouth. The players should of finished the chances and nobody will be talking negative, its not the managers fault these chances are not converted he has sent them out to play this open way and its good to watch and I suppose we are going to have setbacks when these youngsters learn. People having a go at Baines when it is his first game back I don't understand he needs games to be match fit and is still a quality player and as I have said previously Galloway has done well but he is not a left back he's a centre back and do think teams targeted us there as a weakness. I was a big David Moyes fan and have defended him in my post before as I have Roberto as a supporter and a manager myself I will always prefer to play the game Robertos way and be frustrated at a draw rather than Moyes way and holding on for a draw. I know some posters will say somewhere in between the two is the right way and being able to see a game out, hopefully this will be the case when our players gain more experience and I think Jags leadership has been a factor which has been missed although Mori has done well, I think he would talk and organise the defence and maybe Palace, Bournmouth and Norwich goals may never have happened. As for Howard yes I believe he has made mistakes and people saying what does he bring to the team answer= experience in a young team and maybe if Jags was fit then Robles might get the nod. I think Howard will be gone at the end of the season and it is a special position to be changing half way through a season. We will see once Jags is back if this changes. So come on everyone the results have not been what we want but some great performances and lots to look forward to and don't have knee jerk reactions Utd lost tonight, Liverpool lost against Newcastle its a funny old season and believe we are the best supporters in the country with morales and total loyalty through the tough times. We all laugh at the dark side when they jump on the bandwagon, we are better than that. It's funny that the only team that have shown any consistency is Leicester and hey are next fixture! I wouldn't be suprised if we end that next week and bring them back down to earth with a convincing win. IMWT!

Believable2 Unbelievable1

12 Dec 2015 20:49:20
Agree about Baines totally. Experience is no argument for Howard. Robles is better, simples. You speak a lot of sense there Robbie.

Under Moyes we competed for Europe annually. I do agree under Martinez we play much more attractive football.

But are we better off? Like will we be competing for Europe every year?

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12 Dec 2015 20:52:49
Sorry Robbie, not an over-reaction at all. I and many others predicted that Roberto would turn us into if not a Wigan then into a per-annual middle of the League Team after he had bedded in and our seasons (last and this) appear to be proving this. Playing expansive football is all well and good but giving away 2 goal leads and not performing against so-called lesser clubs is not progress. We are supposed to have the best Squad for seasons, that maybe so but it is having a Manager that can with his coaching staff get the best out of that Squad. So far I see the best out of Lukaku (Big Dunc) and other attackers but not out of our defence.

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12 Dec 2015 21:25:54
great post Robbie.

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12 Dec 2015 22:01:30
Sorry Robbie it's not over-reaction. Baines came on last week and was obviously not fit let alone match fit. The same today. He has been out for a long time and has had several operations. Today he was just too slow and was left behind on numerous occasions. Galloway is much better right now and should not have lost his place. No argument about Baines coming back when he is fit.

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12 Dec 2015 22:31:11
RM is so positive over the last few games and in a way is right we do so much
right, but
we lack a killer edge to our game, allow defeated opposition a way out of games. This is an issue the manager needs to resolve quickly because at this time Europe is up for grabs and the top side are very vulnerable. Unfortunately I don't think RM has a ruthless edge we need to do this, he wants to be Mr Nice Guy and we don't need that.
We have 4 players the rest of the prem league covet and that is a worry!

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12 Dec 2015 22:47:12
You state we have the best squad in ages and I completely agree. That squad is a top 6 squad at the least. why are we struggling in mid table? Martinez. I accept we aren't a million miles away in terms of points, but that just reinforces how much of a trick we've missed when all 'apparent' top 6 rivals are dropping points left right and centre.

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12 Dec 2015 23:49:32
Completely agree Robbie - great post.

Difference for me between the Moyes and Martinez eras is that under Moyes it forever felt like we were a very average team punching above our weight. Lots of players in their late 20s who put a good shift in but were short of star quality. There was the sense we were just playing season to season content with top 8 every year and not trying to push on. Because of this there was always a worry that things would collapse when Moyes left.

For me under Martinez we are looking like a genuinely good team with exciting young players and lots of star quality. Unlike under Moyes it feels like we are genuinely building something and working towards a long term plan. If we keep the team together for 2/3 years (you've got to let a man have a few crazy dreams) we would be good enough to be challenging top 4. We are progressing - which is something we haven't done for a sustained period of tie in ages. When Martinez leaves he will leave a legacy of young players, skilfull footballers and fantastic football.

I understand that nowadays more than ever it's a results business and as much as I like Martinez, I still have my reservations over his ability to consistently deliver results. But I really feel we are building something and that is why we need to give our support.

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13 Dec 2015 01:36:34
Good post Robbie don't mind the whingers even when we win they moan about something!

Agree totally about Baines just back from injury and people want rid it's embarrassing and beyond explanation. Sure let's drop one of the most consistent left backs in European football for a 19yr old makeshift left back. Galloway has done brilliantly but anyone who thinks Baines should not get back in the side either doesn't understand football or is just looking for a reason to have a go at RM.

Sad people! And you can comment all you want on that.

P. S a big welcome back to all the once upon a defeat negative posters see you after the next bad result.

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13 Dec 2015 03:09:43
Or they disagree aflm, Baines has been slow, poor set pieces and getting caught out for 3 years. Same reason a lot of fans wanted Oviedo to stay in the first team in 2013-14 when we had that 11 game unbeaten run. Baines has been below par for a long time. Suck it up.

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13 Dec 2015 10:12:11
Swan I have to disagree with you on this one. Baines is a top player only back from injury. I'd give him a chance before I'd start knocking him.

He stayed loyal to Everton when he was top of his game and could of left for Utd if he wanted.

Deserve a lot of credit and respect for that alone.

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12 Dec 2015 19:26:12
Not to worry, we are creeping up on United one point at a time.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

12 Dec 2015 22:31:53
They are sliding quicker than we are rising.

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12 Dec 2015 17:44:55
. well, that's 6 totally stupid points dropped now in the last 3 games and I blame the gaffer for this! I think I've said this before - but with the quality and strength of squad we currently have we should be doing much much better and sitting higher up in the league and putting teams like Norwich, Bournemouth and Palace to bed. just imagine for 1 minute the lofty heights where a decent and more experienced manager with know how could take our current crop of talented players too - I. e. - Ranieri, Ancelotti etc etc. for me European qualification is the bare minimum for Bobby to achieve this season with the quality of squad he has at his disposal, or else he goes and is deemed as a failure!

Believable3 Unbelievable1

12 Dec 2015 18:47:48
Stupid comment only have this squad cause of Martinez seriously doubt we have anything close to it if we had chosen another manager also believe in January we will add and be even stronger all draws of late for me are players not takin our chances still unbeaten since arsenal dominating all games we play anyone who wants Martinez gone has no clue in my honest opinion and will all see how wrong they were come end of season I'm certain of that :)

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12 Dec 2015 18:48:18
With true respect to Palace, Watford, Leicester, West Ham. Mr Martinez has in his own words the best Squad that he is very happy with. He comes out with Phenomenal, Exciting at the drop of just about every sentence, today he comes out with excited and disappointed at the end of todays game, blames bad luck instead of poor finishing and defending. Coincidence in bad luck in dropping two points maybe okay twice but not three times, Roberto. Maybe it is you Roberto and your methods and direction you give your Staff. Far to nice to be a Premiership Manager I am afraid.

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12 Dec 2015 19:47:23
Hold you to that Cobyone, what did you predict last season by the way?

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12 Dec 2015 19:47:46
Not totally convinced he's not the one for us even though I have plenty of concerns of the things he does.

But I do agree duncansmum he does come across as too nice too many times.

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12 Dec 2015 20:11:00
Cobyone, I was like you a few weeks ago. Optimistic, thinking Martinez is doing a good job. But if we can't even beat Norwich or Bournemouth after taking lead we haven't a chance of finishing top 4.

I even predicted we'd finish 5th with the bases of us winning these games. Top 10 more like it.

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13 Dec 2015 15:52:44
Dunc on predictions I'm sure you were one of the ones predicting us to get relegated last year and this year also if you had your way Steve Maclaren would be managing us now as some of you boo boys were suggesting not so long ago :)

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12 Dec 2015 17:10:41
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, A Game Of Two Halves

Believable0 Unbelievable0

12 Dec 2015 20:01:35
This is the most entertaining attacking side for years. We do need to finish chances but hopefully if we can keep the core of the squad and replace the keeper with a top stopper then we can progress. The problem is keeping the vultures away in the transfer windows. need to try robles for a few games and decide if he is the keeper to fit in with the defence or buy. Also 2nd striker required. Still think we are progressing.

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12 Dec 2015 20:24:00
Thank you very much alwaysblue. Talking a lot of sense there.

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12 Dec 2015 22:02:23
We already have a shot stopper, anyone can make a save when it's rammed down there throat, what we need is a keeper that collects from a set piece as well as commands the area witch gives confidence to the defence, without spending money we already have this in Robles.

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12 Dec 2015 15:38:00
People can go on about Martinez, Kone and whoever and they are correct. The difference? Norwich had a keeper that wasn't a sh*thouse! The defence looks so much better when Joel is behind him. Palace, Liverpool and now Norwich Tim Howard has cost us (though some will say he wasn't, Neville Southall has said Howard is garbage abd should be catching these all day long) , he's a joke of a Goalkeeper, he annoys me more than McGeady now, I fell more comfortable with McGeady on the wing than Howard in goal. Joel has shown time and time again he is boss at dealing with crosses, Howard is a liability that is costing us time and time again. Sure the excuse will be "no Goalkeeper in world football would have dealt with any of those crosses" or "defence at fault only". I despise him, I'm sure he's a nice guy but he is arrogant and a dreadul Goalkeeper. Before anyone says "oh but he's a good shot stopper", every keeper in top flight Football is a good shot stopper, that's their job. It's like saying, well McGeady can't be crap because he's fast and tricky. Don't blame Joel if he wants to leave or Mirallas, or Stones, soon to be Deulofeu and Lukaku. Absolute joke we can't kill these teams off and when our Goalkeeper is required to do his job (keep the ball out of the net, for people who think his job is just stopping shots from distance, which he can't do funnily enough) and collect crosses, punch them, save at his near post, not palm shots straight back in to the danger area. Get him out the club, gone on far too long, any other team and he would have been dropped by now. We will regret this one day, when all our good players leave because we achieved nothing we will look back and say oh, well only if we had a decent Goalkeeper. Don't even need a good Goalkeeper, just one that isn't Tim Howard.

Believable6 Unbelievable1

12 Dec 2015 16:05:46
Amen Swan.

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12 Dec 2015 16:23:33
I take Tim's not on you Christmas card list then Swan.

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12 Dec 2015 16:23:59
I agree, at one point in his career I thought he was the most underrated keeper in the EPL and was a great keeper, but he's past it now and we have to get rid. I know it'll take a big bid but I think Butland should be looked at, what a great young spine to the team we'd have with Butland, Stones, Barkley (on his day) , Del Boy and Lukaku in the mix. Even throw Galloway in there too.

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12 Dec 2015 16:38:10
Totally agree 100% Swan. Except for hating Howard. I don't hate him, I just think he's useless and Martinez is worse for keep picking him.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Martinez insistence on picking could end up costing him his job.

Martinez is lucky. Look what happened to Monk. Swansea no worse off than we were this time last season and BK stuck with Martinez. Any other club and Martinez would be gone by now.

I was sitting on the fence about Martinez. Was beginning to think he was the one to take us forward after how well he done with the hard start. With the results of late I'm changing my mind.

Someone was on about under Moyes we went into games with the big clubs and very rarely beat them. You can be sure under Moyes we would beat newly promoted teams and teams near the bottom.

With Martinez you just don't know who were going to beat. If in doubt predict a draw. Unreal drew half the games so far.

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12 Dec 2015 16:57:36
I agree on one point that TH is past his best and needs to be replaced. But to blame him solely for today is just idiotic Swan, it just shows your bias against players you don't like. Why do you not single out Coleman, Muri and Kone for letting the lad have a free header? Not one of them got off the ground to challenge for the ball. Why not slate the attacking players for not converting their chances? Lukaku should have had 3 or 4 in the first half hour. Using the same logic that you use for the keepers, yes he scored but that's his job isn't it? Every striker in the top flight knows how to score.
We win, lose or draw as a team. The mistakes are being made in all areas of the pitch, every player must be held accountable.

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12 Dec 2015 16:58:52
Precisely my point in an earlier post. Baines is more a left mid than left back, Galloway is a better defender and our best is out on loan. Takes Del boy off for Mirallas, when it should have been Kone off then we would have thrust down both flanks. I have been consistent in my criticism of Roberto Martinez and I stick to that, he is not the Manager for us and he is not a Premiership Manager, what he is, is a Coach under a Manager that knows how to Manage. That is two more points lost and what does the King of Wafflers come out with, I am 'excited and disappointed at the same time'. Try working on why we miss so many chances and work on how once ahead we can retain the lead. Yes I agree with Swan except for hating Howard, he has been an excellent GK for us but is now alas ready for pasture/big pay day in the States. Same points tally as this stage last season, currently 9th soon to be 10th.

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12 Dec 2015 17:16:01
Sorry spudv you missed a point where I said "they are correct" on Kone etc, who I do like, thanks for playing.

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12 Dec 2015 17:25:28
Swan i've been saying the same things about Howard for a few years now. Only thing I can add to that is he can't command the 6yard box never mind the 18yard line. He is not a good shot stopper either. He made 2 very good saves last week with his feet but that's luck more than good goalkeeping.

Is there anyone here that thinks he is a good keeper and if so can they let us know what he brings to the side? I'm curious as I can't see anything good at all from him. I would prefer big Dunc in nets because i'd know he would attempt to get to the crosses.

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12 Dec 2015 17:29:18
Playing what? My point is, as always, you have skirted over a situation and made it out to be TH's fault that we dropped points. No mention of the 3 that never challenged for the ball. No mention of the wasted chances. Just TH cost us the game.

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12 Dec 2015 17:58:23
spudv, Swan is totally right. Its not just this game he's talking about. It's the 16 games this season so far he's talking about.

Howard is becoming very very consistent on allowing goals to be scored around the 6 yard box. That's his area to command. No one else's.

Your fighting a losing battle here spudv. He's only going to get worse.

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12 Dec 2015 18:07:26
Not got time to even read all posts but with spudv on this one today's goal nothin to do with Howard again I agree time has come for new keeper but only next summer will it happen if so butland for me 15m+ if needs be disappointed by last three games really should of won all but unlike others rather than blame Martinez I think we need to look at the players performances more just not takin our chances at the moment should of killed off all three games easily although mori has done well for me we do miss jags world class still for me missing him right now also Galloway has bin class but bringing Baines back in right decision for me still in good position right now Leicester game we need three points to stay up there Kone done well this season but think time has come for mirallas to get start or Naismith hope Gibson can stay fit think he can add to team also come January to stay competing at top for me we need to spend lukaku is great but all top teams have 3/4 top strikers need to add here and hopefully go all out and get yarmolenko still think we in for very exciting season for me Martinez has brought us to another level since moyes deserves more time and respect from certain fans.

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12 Dec 2015 18:08:27
Thank you NBTB, spud, I very clearly pointed out other games where his lack of action has cost us. I said you can blame Martinez, Kone etc (etc meaning Lukaku, Baines whoever else) but Howard is a recurring problem.

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12 Dec 2015 18:24:10
NBTB, there is no battle to fight, this is about opinions and I will voice mine in the same way that we all do on here. Swan was talking about today, much as you was on your post further down, blaming TH for the draw today.
"People can go on about Martinez, Kone and whoever and they are correct. The difference? Norwich had a keeper that wasn't a sh*thouse! " That is the first line of his post but I don't accept that it was all TH's fault. We wasted far too many chances as I have stated, yet nobody is slating Lukaku, for example. Yes I believe TH is past it and needs replacing but look at the bigger picture. We have to get out of the mentality that battering a team in the first 45 minutes means job done, it has cost us in the last three games. I don't expect RM in to bring in another keeper next month although I would like him to do so, imo we need two as Joel doesn't instil me with any confidence either.
All I am saying, NBTB, is be consistent with criticising. There were three other players that were involved in the build up to their goal but only one is singled out if you read the posts on here.

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12 Dec 2015 19:03:16
spudv, I didn't mean an actual battle. It was just the use of a phrase. Of course your entitled to your opinion.

I'm not blaming Howard solely for the loss. Of course other players are to blame also.

But I do think the biggest contributor to Everton losing points this season is two people. One Howard, not commanding his area. You can say what you want. Blame anyone else you want. The 6 yard box is the goalies area to dominate.

Howard simply does not do that. Think was you that pointed out its the other teams job to score goals. Yea well, its inevitable your going to get shots. If you don't command your area your going to get more shots.

Its just very frustrating Howards unwillingness to catch, punch whatever BEFORE the opposition get to the ball.

The way Howard plays you'd swear he thinks he can't catch the ball or use his hands. The opposition are at a disadvantage because they have to use their feet and head. Yet they score so easily in the goal mouth.

Your suggesting no one is slating Lukaku and rightly so. Lukaku is playing magnificent and is doing the business. He is being unlucky not scoring more. You do realise how much he is contributing to securing points?

Yes I most certainly am consistent with my criticism. Its not the first time I've pulled Howard up. I've criticized other players too.

The common denominator is? Yes Howard. That is why he is getting most of the blame from me and Swan. Because he is consistent with letting goals in round the 6 yard box. The dictionary definition of consistent should be changed to Howard let's goals in round the 6 yard box consistently!

Two Martinez, definition could also be changed to Martinez consistently picks Howard even though Howard consistently leaks goals around the area he should be bossing. Like any goalkeeper should be doing in the premiership.

Joel, your not convinced. Face it could he do any worse than Howard? Spudv, your not convinced with Joel. That's fine but answer me honestly, in your opinion. Would he be worse, the same as, or better than Howard?

Personally I obviously think he'd be better.

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12 Dec 2015 20:02:34
Spot on about the mentality spudv, the issue I have with people who love Tim Howard (not you, a trend I'm noticing) is they say "well Joel is much worse", I don't know what that is based on? . Kept us in the cup with his saves, clean sheets in all but one last season I believe. Comes for crosses and his distribution is top quality, few times one kick from him has put Lukaku in the perfect place to run at the defence. He's also much more of a leader than Howard, watch him, he is screaming at players to move for him and is instructing the back four. Howard just stands there and doesn't speak, hence why he's made a few gestures to the lower gwladys this season when people have asked him to speak to people. Not just all these points, the defence feel much more confident with Joel in goal, plus he's younger. So that's

Better shot stopper
Better dealing with crosses
Better leader
Younger
Better distribution
Better on the ball

So better in every department and it really does worry me that there is still people who want Tim Howard to be our number 1 (again, not you) and have a go at Joel for being "dodgy" (oh the irony) . We are missing out big time by not playing Joel. I think people dislike Joel just because he looked shaky in his first season, these are the same people who don't like Besic because of that backheel, hate Naismith and Kone for their bad starts and won't forgive Oviedo for one bad game vs Barnsley (there are people who have changed their minds completely because of that one game) . They judge instantly and refuse to change their minds or even consider warming to them.

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12 Dec 2015 20:36:19
I know what you meant mate, you implied that I would be better giving up this debate because you and Swan are right! My point is about today's game only, too many jumping on the bandwagon and blaming him for today's goal. I've stated numerous times that he needs replacing.
Joel has had enough games in this league, albeit not for us, and enough in the various cups, for me to see that he is equally as dodgy a keeper as TH. He didn't do anything out of the ordinary at Wigan, he has had about 3 games for us where he did well but he has also had a few games for us where he made basic errors. We need to bring in a keeper who can go straight in the team, a keeper with more quality than we already have.
Lukaku was a comparison for how people are judging players differently. Of course he is playing well. I was making a point tongue in cheek, using the same logic that Swan uses.

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12 Dec 2015 21:06:29
You can only judge on how they play not who they are. Simple, Howard is playing sh*te this season as a whole. Lukaku is doing fantastic this season as a whole.

So what is Joel doing at the club? He's just there for decoration is he? Better keeper than you give credit for. If I was him I'd be wondering what has to happen to get a chance. Not a run of games just one chance. Look at the Norwich goalkeeper today. 24 and an understoody goalie getting the man of the match.

Because he was given a chance while Ruddy was injured. Norwich manager has his head screwed on. Creates great competition for the position.

Something Howard is privileged not to have to deal with. Joel had 3 consecutive clean sheets last season. Played very well in any game he played over the last two seasons.

You do realise our best chance of silverware since 1996 is because Joel has been in goals for the league cup. Coincidence that, haven't conceded much during league cup when Joel was in goal.

May as well sell Joel in January because he's obviously not rated and the only way he'll get playing is if Howard gets injured.

Howard is laughing. He knows he's a shoe in every game no matter what happens. He's not kept on his toes at all because he knows he gets played no matter what happens.

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13 Dec 2015 00:29:57
We'll just have to beg to differ NBTB, you think he's decent, whereas I don't. It's down to the manager to pick which one plays. maybe Joel doesn't look up to much in training?

He hasn't done enough in an Everton shirt to warrant bigging him up as much as some do. Sure he played really well in about three games, but he has also been dodgy in another few. He was also Wigan's first choice keeper the season they went down.

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13 Dec 2015 01:23:00
spudv, which games has he looked dodgy in? 3 good games? Played 3 good games in his las 3, what about how good he was last season? . McCarthy was Wigans first choice mid when they went down, guess he isn't any decent either.

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13 Dec 2015 02:36:15
Swan you're just getting more and more ridiculous by the day!

Don't voice your opinion spudv what Swan says is gospel and if it isn't he will bore you to death with long, repetitive posts until you just can't be bothered.

Yawnnn!

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13 Dec 2015 03:14:20
Come up with a constructive argument or don't bother. The yawn is ironic as 99% of your posts recently can be summed up with "Howard does nothing wrong ever, don't like it you're a fool. Spudv, apologies for my post seeming sarcastic and patronizing, could you list the games you think he has and hasn't done well in if you don't mind.

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13 Dec 2015 09:22:24
I'm with you totally Swan. Some people will think the players are doing ok no matter how they play or what the result is.

Swan your posts are always interesting. Don't mind aflm78. I might not agree with everything you say Swan but your posts always are constructive and put across a decent argument.

Unlike some posts who just say don't be giving out and have no substance to them whatsoever.

Ok spudv we'll agree to disagree. Can't see how you can judge Joel when he hasn't even got a proper chance yet. First season I'll admit he looked dodgy. Last two I think he looked good. Your logic saying he was in goal when Wigan went down doesn't stand up.

A bit of de ja voo then with Howard? Joel also has a fa cup medal. Agree with duncansmum and Swan in above posts.

Looks like you have your players you dislike too spudv. Namely Joel. You earlier accused Swan of having his favourites. I don't see Swan doing this. I think he's comments on this occasion are pretty well spot on.

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13 Dec 2015 12:35:13
Swan you put Robles in your greatest ever Prem team and then expect to be taken seriously.

You criticize players then when someone defends them you get all bullish and go on a rant!

It's tiring! can you send me a link to the interview where Big Nev said TH is garbage!?
You've been quoting him a lot lately to back up your own point.
I doubt if you ever even saw him play for the club. Have you turned 20 yet!? You certainly don't act like it!

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13 Dec 2015 13:57:30
The logic is simple NBTB, he played in an important position most games for a team that got relegated. That Wigan team played decent football at times yet conceded many goals. I wasn't impressed with him whenever I seen him either for them or for us. Yes, I've already said he has had a few decent games for us but he has also had a few were he looked, at best, average. Having an FA cup winners medal doesn't make him a great keeper, if that was the case then I'm pretty sure Howard won that and more in his United days did he not?
You miss the point in your unswerving loyalty to Swan! Have you ever heard me slate players as bad as Swan does? No you haven't. I will say if player x has been good or bad regardless of who they are or whether I like them so your point is invalid. I've even given Joel a bit of praise before now. You can reply if you like but I'm done with our chat mate, we are getting nowhere on this and it is becoming tedious.
Swan, there are times when you can be sarcastic but I've never found you patronising to me, not that I remember anyway! There are things we agree on and things we don't but we all see differently I suppose. Can't be bothered carrying this on as we are getting nowhere and it is miles away from the point we were both making. I was talking about a specific game not the rest of the season or last year, just yesterdays game. We agree that Tim is past his best and is coming to the end of his career. I just think we, as Evertonians, should show him a bit of respect for someone who has played over 400 games for us. We treat our old boys well at this club, just because age has caught up with him doesn't mean we have to pick him apart mate. We are better than that.

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13 Dec 2015 15:47:19
Firstly I have no loyalty to Swan. I just happen to agree with him on this occasion. I'm not aware of what point you say is invalid. You don't mention what it is so I don't know what point your talking about.

Robles is at the club for a reason. We pay his wages for a reason. Why not introduce him now? No point him being at the club otherwise. You admitted Howard is in decline. At 36 he's not going to get better.

Joel at 24 is only going to get better. Joel deserves a chance like any player in the squad. He's being treated desperately at the moment imo.

Howard did do well for us and was a good signing. Problem is if he keeps playing like this all he's previous good work will be forgotten.

Howard is only going to get worse. He's only going to cost us more points. At the end of season you could be calling for him to be dropped yourself spudv.

If you think all of a sudden he will start playing out of skin I think you need to think again. As I said he's on a downward spiral. Martinez should end it now. That would be best for all involved.

I haven't been abusive towards Howard either. Swan does go over the top a bit but none of us perfect.

Anyway your right it I getting tiresome. Just have to agree to disagree.

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12 Dec 2015 15:17:37
I'm not sure what Baines offers the team anymore? his corners are repetitively awful - he never gets the ball past the first man, I'd have Galloway Mori or Garbutt when fit chosen ahead of him all day long, his injury was obviously a set back but he's just not cutting the mustard, needs to just sit on the bench with his mirror and bucket of gel imo.
Howard well what can you say, he pulls off a decent save here and there, however if the opposition has a corner or if there's a scramble in the box, it's only ever going one way, doesn't command his area at all, Robles needs a run of at least 3-4 games and should have stayed between the sticks following his cup displays.
Barkley was poor today but it's going to happen from time to time, I just wish Martinez wouldn't waste so much time and drag him off sooner.
Desperately in need of McCarthy back now!
Frustrating watching Everton as per normal.

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{Ed025's Note - baines is not match fit baz, im not making excuses for his performance though mate..

12 Dec 2015 15:39:22
He's been like this for 3-4 years, set pieces have been some of the worst imaginable, now getting shown up for his inability to defend.

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12 Dec 2015 16:11:46
I said last week that Baines was poor when he came on and today was more of the same. He was constantly out of position and a better team would have taken advantage big time. Now we have two favorites in Howard and Baines who are picked regardless of how badly they play. Galloway should not have been dropped.

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12 Dec 2015 16:27:07
If you look at the last few matches nearly all our corners are not getting past the front post, if doesn't really matter who takes them so I am wondering if it is a tactic to put them there? if not then we probably need to turn up with a lighter ball we can used just for corners, as the ones the PL provide must be too heavy.

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12 Dec 2015 16:30:07
Agree with everything there Baz29. Except for your comments on Baines. I wouldn't write him off just yet. First game back from injury cut him some slack.

Martinez and Howard are more like the culprits to me.

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12 Dec 2015 18:09:46
Baines is comeing back from a long lay off, thus, criticsm is a bit premature, however there is no such excuse for Barkley, I know he has scored a few goals this season, but his general play is woeful.
The number of goals conceeded from corner seem to have taught Martines nothing, a keeper who lackes the confidence to come for crosses, and no one on the posts has seen us through away six points just in the last three games, finally, unless injured, takeing delofao off seems totally crazy.

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13 Dec 2015 01:04:56
ruddy is out of form so he was dropped for last game were rudd did well so he kept his place. not like us we won't drop howard as to roberto he is like a god.

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12 Dec 2015 16:12:27
Ed have to disagree with the match fitness excuse, under 21 games and behind closed doors games get played to eradicate the match fitness issue, if you actually watch Baines over 90 min's there's no argument, I can't see him ever coming back into form but I hope I'm wrong.

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{Ed025's Note - maybe im looking for excuses baz, i like the guy but it could be that he is past his best mate..

12 Dec 2015 15:13:29
Anyone know why we lost? I'll give my two pence worth. Doesn't bother me if no one agrees.

Man of the match, Rudd Norwich goalkeeper. 24 and has been deputizing for Ruddy since he was injured. The manager stuck with Rudd because he done well when he replaced Ruddy.

What does Martinez do when Robles was in the exact same position. Puts Howard straight back in goals and more or less says Joel is not good enough. How many goals has Howard let in now around the small box? Unbelievable, you can blame Barkley all you want Howard has the advantage over everyone to use his hands.

Can anyone please tell me what Howard was trying to do for their goal? I've seen it in slow motion. Its unreal, there may as well of been no one in goals as what Howard was doing.

Martinez needs to cop on. Any other club and he would of been sacked by now. Duncansmum, you could be 100% correct about Martinez. I had a few drinks but I'm getting really annoyed with Martinez.

Mirallas and Joel, if you have any sense leave in January. Absolutely desperate!

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12 Dec 2015 15:54:42
Not sure how we can blame Howard for that draw? The question should be why two Norwich players jumped, with one connecting with the ball, while three of our players didn't get off the ground. Howard got a touch on it which, unfortunately, took it away from Ross.
We are not converting our chances which is putting pressure on our defence. If we find a bit of consistency then we can kick on in 2nd half of season. But we need to cut out these schizophrenic halves, first half of last few games we have looked superb, then second halve we look like we have never played together before.

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12 Dec 2015 16:26:24
Howard is costing us points spudv. Simple as. Actually Howard and Martinez are costing us points. Martinez keeps picking him. When will he wake up. Last season he was stubborn with his way of play. This season he is stubborn with not playing Mirallas and insisting on playing Howard.

Read Swans post above spudv. I'm not alone.

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12 Dec 2015 17:10:33
I agree that TH needs replacing mate but I can't agree that he was the reason we got the draw today. As I said, the lad who won the header from the corner had 3 of our players around him, not one got off the ground to challenge him. That is basic defending.
With reference to Swan's post, I have replied there with my opinion. Any time we concede a goal, Swan will manipulate it to be TH's fault anyway mate. He will never give TH any decent review regardless as he, despite him denying it, gives more stick to the players he dislikes. That, by the way, is not me having a snipe at Swan it is simply an observation of his posts.
All said and done, if we had converted our chances then we would have been out of sight by the interval. Our problem is consistency at the moment, we have an inability to close out games and invite pressure as we don't take the chances we create. It is the reason, if we don't improve on this, that we will fall well short of the top four. We can't just make one single player the scapegoat for our results. As much as TH is not saving shots, our attacking players are not killing games off by scoring more goals than we currently do.

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12 Dec 2015 18:08:57
Again with spud look at goal to blame horward just silly imo.

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12 Dec 2015 18:12:03
spudv, I will give him a decent review when he doesn't do a mistake leading to a goal, which he hasn't done since Spurs away. I know we beat Villa but he had nothing to do. Bar Spurs away, has he gone a game where he has either not made a mistake leading to a goal (Norwich, Arsenal x2, Liverpool, Palace, Man City x2, Utd x2) or won us some points. I've been very fair to Tim, he hasn't had a good game since Tottenham away where to his credit he did very well, you forgot that I assume.

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12 Dec 2015 18:50:48
Have to disagree swan for me you and others are unfairly blaming Howard for goals of late that are not his fault.

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12 Dec 2015 19:58:47
The reason Swan dislikes Howard is only recently. I've looked at Swans posts and the only reason he slates Howard is because he's playing bad. Swan would not be slating Howard only for the amount of goals he's letting in.

Could Howard not of went to catch or punch that ball today? It was played into the 6 yard box. Howard should be keeping his eye on the ball and at least attempting to catch or punch the ball away.

Not standing on the line hoping an outfield player heads or gets the ball away so he won't have to save it. Plenty of other keepers in the premiership attack the ball when its played into the box. Why can't Howard?

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12 Dec 2015 20:19:19
Swan, it is all down to what we see as an individual. For example, against Villa I can remember two decent saves he made yet you say he had nothing to do. You have rarely given him credit mate, one game maybe so your assumption is wrong. He can't do nothing right for you, that you have to admit. If he makes a good save in the game then you will tell us it was routine, all keepers in the division should save them.
The entire point of my reply was that we can't put the entire blame on him for the team dropping points today. I don't think he is good enough any more and I agree that he needs replacing but it is daft to crucify him for the goal conceded today.

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12 Dec 2015 22:57:46
That's the thing spudv. Swans reaction is not from today. Its from the 16 games this season. Swan is rightly giving out because its happening too often. How many times does it have to happen before he gets dropped?

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13 Dec 2015 00:35:13
NBTB, there were enough players to deal with that header so no, he didn't have to come from his line it should have been dealt with. In the very least there should have been an EFC player jumping to challenge the lad, not give him a free header.

As previously stated, it is basic defending and shouldn't happen at this level.
Again, I don't want this to seem like an attack on Swan because it is not, but it has been ore than recently that he has a go at TH. He hasn't rated him for many months now. And rightly so in some cases but just not the goal conceded today :)

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13 Dec 2015 09:26:03
Your right spudv he shouldn't of got a free header. So why didn't Howard go to collect the ball. He can catch or punch it. Big advantage over everyone in the box.

Instead of relying on someone else to deal with it. Plenty of keepers attack the ball and deal with the situation rather than relying on someone else.

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12 Dec 2015 15:07:07
The difference between the two halfs was first half we pressured them on the ball and gave them no time, second half they did same to us with the added hard dirty tackle thrown in for good measure, we all know how mirrellas loves? But fair do he kept his head, would have took barkley and kone off after 60mins but hey ho i'm not mr martinez, another draw that feels like a loss. ets hope for a happy new year everyone.

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{Ed025's Note - you dont think they are drinking JD and coke at half time do you niko?..because im like that on a sunday morning.. :)

12 Dec 2015 15:06:07
45 minute team they break my heart they really do top 4 no chance we can't kill teams off. Deluefeo needs to stop with all this drama he will never get decisions even when he is fouled because of his antics. Barkley should of stayed at home not interested, Kone some very bad decisions, Lukaku misses a sitter chance after chance wasted The defence can't defend corners also looked very ropey in possession in that second half 3 players charge for one Norwich player in midfield with the ball not one of them looked over there shoulder to see they left a two on one situation at the back. Things need to change and quick all this top 4 needs to stop until we can prove our worth cause you don't get top 4 in the premier league by dropping points in games that you should be home and dry in at half time there are too many good teams aiming for it we took 3 points from a possible 9 in our last matches games we should have won and had wrapped up sorry but not good enough.

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12 Dec 2015 15:00:54
At this moment in time nothing is frustrating me more than Everton. To draw the last three games when we have dominated is getting beyond the joke. When we are a team that has scored the least goals through set pieces yet have conceded the most, their is a real problem somewhere. In my non biased view we could really be in the top 2 or 3 right now had we converted wins against Bournemouth Watford, Swansea, Crystal Palace and Norwich all games we dominated and the only game we were lucky was against Tottenham we have cost ourselves 9 points. We would have 32 points right now and sitting top. We have a team that is good enough to win the premier league let alone finish in the top 4. Just frustrated!

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{Ed025's Note - frustration will turn to anger if we dont sort it out quick soon aussie..

12 Dec 2015 15:05:18
Agreed Aussie Toffee. I'm already angry Ed.

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12 Dec 2015 14:54:21
Another draw - that's our 8th in our 16 league matches so far. We should have had this match comfortably won by half-tine, but could easily have lost it in the second half. Credit to Norwich in the second half for upping the intensity and for pressing us high up the pitch and for handling Lukaku better. We were totally dominant in the first half (Norwich were abysmal) and we created a hatful of chances, BUT we didn't take them and have paid the price. Another draw snatched from the jaws of victory :- (
A strange match - difficult to rate the players - I thought Coleman, Cleverly and Stones were good, but Baines looked rusty and Barkley was sloppy.
The match at home to Leicester will now be a major test of our ambition to challenge for the European places.

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{Ed025's Note - i fancy a draw sid.. :)

12 Dec 2015 14:48:40
Note to coaching staff:2 wingers on bench,1 attacking midfielder/striker who gives his all on bench. One overrated striker who is lazy playing on the wing, work it out.

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12 Dec 2015 14:40:52
Imagine subbing Deulofeuout and
Kone playing another 90 minutes. 3 draws with 3 promoted teams yet again. Martinez is inept. Another set piece leads to the equaliser because the
Spanish fraud doesn't think they are important. commentators talking about Europe just upsets me. Evertons squad is certainly good enough, the muppet who organises them isn't.

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12 Dec 2015 14:50:27
Barkley should of cleared that before they scored, we should of scored more in the first half, it's not Martinezs fault that we couldn't finish them off, we certainly had the chances to do it.

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{Ed025's Note - we did smeg, but if the team switches off like we did in the second half again, then for me the manager has to act mate..

12 Dec 2015 15:04:03
Exactly Ed, I'm starting to think Martinez is a bigger part of the problem than I previously thought. I always gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm beginning to doubt.

Barkley probably should have done better but why blame an attacking player so much for conceding a goal. Not the first time Barkley was blamed for letting in a goal.

Watch it again, tell me what was Howard doing for their goal? He may as well not of been there. Another goal around the small box. Absolutely desperate.

I'm getting pi**ed drawing games we should win.

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12 Dec 2015 15:39:10
Smog, Howard got a touch on it before it reached Barkley and that's why he didn't make good contact. You can't blame the guy for everything.

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12 Dec 2015 14:40:01
When will we ever learn. Top 4? No chance. Top 4 teams bury their opponents when they get the chances we got in the first half. That second half performance was bloody awful. That's 6 points thrown away in the last three games. And from another bloody set piece. Said it before will say it again, need another striker and a creative midfielder. God I'm angree.

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{Ed025's Note - to be honest you have to look at the manager when the second half is not as good as the first mate..

12 Dec 2015 15:01:07
Agree Ed, The buck stops with him at the end of the day. I am totally pi**ed off with Martinez, he hasn't got to clue, his team selections, his faourites, his use of substitutions baffle the life outta me. we should or could be top of that league easily or sitting comfortably clear in the top4 at the least. Sick of listening to the same old crap every week just sick of him basically.

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{Ed025's Note - im not slagging him jimmy, he just needs to sort it out as quick as possible mate..

12 Dec 2015 15:14:24
I am slagging him Ed because its the same old same old from him every week. He hasn't learned a thing especially in the last 3 league games. that's 8 league games drawn and that's all down to him imho and i'm sick of it and him and his stubborn attitude, its driving me mad.

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{Ed025's Note - i get how you feel jimmy, and if things dont change i may be joining you mate..

12 Dec 2015 14:39:58
Disgraceful performance 2nd half, wish I didn't support Everton. Get more stressed on my what should be relaxing weekends than I do working the week.

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12 Dec 2015 14:54:08
Know how you feel mate, finally get saturdays of and more stressed out than being at work.

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{Ed025's Note - welcome to everton.. ;)

12 Dec 2015 15:45:47
First thing he needs to do is sort out set pieces. It's getting so every time the opposition get a corner I think there going to score. Think I will just watch the first half of matches in future, then go lock myself in a cupboard.

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12 Dec 2015 14:38:04
How do we expect champions league?
We try for half a match.
Bournemouth, palace now norwich that's 6 points dropped.

Baines was very poor, kone was terrible and barkley may aswell stayed at home.

Top teams win them games!

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12 Dec 2015 14:33:59
When you look at the amount of games we have drew the weekend should have won easy we would be top of the league and no not any team can say the same.

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12 Dec 2015 14:16:17
Get barkley and kone off.

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12 Dec 2015 14:23:53
And Howard.

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12 Dec 2015 14:30:59
When jerome missed the sitter howard dived out the way.
Was at fault for the goal a header across him.

Why are we so bad in the second half.

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12 Dec 2015 14:40:43
Hey ant, no keeper in world football comes for crosses mate, he did nothing wrong.

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12 Dec 2015 14:07:28
Why do we just come out after half time like a different team?

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12 Dec 2015 13:47:26
Even though we are playing well why do I get the feeling we will draw.

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12 Dec 2015 14:10:32
I text my norwich fan mate at half time saying I'll bet we'll draw too, I thought the same against palace before they scored. Just don't seem to be able to kill teams off, unfortunately of we can't get out of that habit we'll never be challenging for those top places.

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12 Dec 2015 14:21:29
With 12 mins left I'd take a draw. Norwich are the better team 2nd half.

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12 Dec 2015 13:42:58
Please god, not another Bournemouth. Should have the game won at this stage.

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12 Dec 2015 13:34:07
How have we not scored more than 1 so far? I hope it doesn't come back to haunt us.

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12 Dec 2015 13:10:55
I don't think baines is up to match sharpness just yet getting caught out of position.

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12 Dec 2015 11:49:43
Coyb's let's not draw today; we need to start getting 3points more regularly.

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12 Dec 2015 11:32:01
I'm going Everton to win by 4 or more goals today COYB.

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