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coyb's rumours posts with other poster's replies to coyb's rumours posts

 

06 May 2017 09:13:10
Ed do you have any idea what sort of fees we would be paying for Willian Jose or Bakambu? Kingo suggested Iheanacho below. If he's looking to move on, I would have thought he'd be a great signing for us, though again not sure what the fee would be.

coyb

{Ed002's Note - I don't want to get in to the money because it causes a lot of confusion with football fans, but Everton has shown no interest in Kelechi Iheanacho - although another side has. I would not be suprised if Everton were to look to both Willian Jopse and Bakambu rather than one or the other.}


1.) 06 May 2017 10:11:27
Thanks Ed. I know you don't like to talk about money and understand why. Good news that we might have a couple of options in attack. I thought it would be one or other because Koeman usually plays a single striker and didn't think either would come to be 2nd choice.

{Ed002's Note - Bakambu is much more flexible and is comfortable anywhere as a forward rather than just a striker. WJ is very much a striker - but a couple of other EPL sides are keen as well.}


2.) 06 May 2017 10:22:18
Thanks Ed.

{Ed002's Note - You are welcome.}


3.) 06 May 2017 10:30:00
While you're on, Ed, may I ask a question? What do you think Everyone can reasonably hope for in terms of the club's progress over the next few (3-5) years? Do you see us being able to challenge the top 6 consistently, qualify for the champions league at all (whatever happened to talk of a breakaway European Super League - are we factoring that possibility in? ) Or is the club just looking to consolidate our position as a good premier league side who sometimes get European competition?

{Ed002's Note - I don't see a significant change. Other sides will be pushing Everton (Southampton might be a good example) and breaking in to the Champions League places will be very difficult but getting to a position of challenging will be possible. In five years time Everton should be settled in to the new stadium and they should be commercially growing. UEFA as you know are fighting the breakaway but Everton are not part of the breakaway plans.}


4.) 06 May 2017 13:19:16
Thanks Ed. I know Everton aren't part of those plans. I was just wondering if it happens where that leaves the Premier League and the remaining clubs.

{Ed002's Note - It remains very much an on-going issue with regular discussions on the matter between a dozen or more clubs. The next will be at the end of August.

Without going in to too much detail: (a) A number of clubs take the opportunity to meet and discuss various issues including changes in rules, club versus country issues, television and other media rights, the power of UEFA, exploitation issues for new technology streams, etc.. The meetings were annually but now they happen two and sometimes three times a year. There was a meeting in December – where there was a discussion about the state of FIFA, the situation with UEFA and a so far unpublished claim from a retired referee that the result of a Champions League game was influenced by a third party. These discussions also always turn to the possibility and structure of a breakaway pan European league. Several are ex-G14 clubs, several are not, and some clubs decline involvement in such discussions. (b) The plan is that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case. It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues. (c) The clubs would renegotiate their television and media rights, rights of distribution via other streams etc.. (d) It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen – which has resulted in a counter-proposal being drafted by UEFA. (e) Timing wise, two very prominent clubs want it to happen as soon as possible (2018 - obviously that isn't the case) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2022-4 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2027 and I suspect that could end up as the reality.

There is a counter-proposal to the pan-European breakaway that has partially been backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin. This is an option to the breakaway as everyone now knows the reality of it. The proposal is to rename and change the format of the UEFA Champions League to make it an elite closed-shop pan-European league with a fixed number of teams – and these would be the same teams every year. It would then require the restructuring of the Europa League and the possible introduction of a lower-tier European competition. Although they have yet to flesh out the detail and there is now a major concern that the impetus for this is not coming from Europe, although one major Football Association has given their support and discussions have also been held with the leading clubs from England (Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal). The American backer, Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins, has requested a meeting with an extant group of sides considering the pan-European breakaway to discuss his proposals. They have yet to respond but having identified the source of much of the funding (and that raising a concern) will wish to discuss it between themselves first. However, UEFA are now considering yet another proposal that would see some places in the CL fixed (probably to previous winners) and then see it supplemented by Champions and second place sides each season. This complicates matters again as it means the re-introduction of a third competition or the significant restructuring of the EL. The plan being put to clubs is a summer/preseason tournament that will evolve in to a parallel league, and of course eventually in to a complete breakaway for these clubs. As a first step to all of this, UEFA have negotiated minor changes that will see the four entrants from England, Germany, Spain and Italy enter the existing Champions League group stages without any qualification beyond their National League position (so no entry to qualifying rounds). This has been agreed by the European Club Association but UEFA did not want to discuss it with the separate group of “elite” sides discussing the Pan European League (and that “elite” group includes three English sides) as they are aware they will get no more than a shrug and no long-term support.

If the proposal for a breakaway goes ahead, there is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis.

A further counter proposal exists as a Chinese proposal from the Dalian Wanda Group proposes to open up the lucrative Chinese and Far Eastern media markets by extending the league to include Chinese and Southa American clubs. This has yet to be discussed by the "elite" sides as a group although the proposals have been presented to a number of them already on an individual basis. The proposals are very broad-based and lack detail - their selling point is significant additional income for the "elite".}


5.) 06 May 2017 20:00:38
Wow. Thanks for that very detailed explanation, Ed. Given all that, it seems quite likely that the will be a breakaway league in the sort of timeframe you outline here. If players of those clubs are banned by FIFA, that would surely be a bit of a spanner in the works, though? I guess FIFA will cave eventually. Interesting that there might be a two-tier pan-European solution. We'd have to hope Everton could get in that way? Would that two-tier system involve promotion and relegation? Eventually, it will probably go global, presumably? If Costa goes to China, it seems like a bigger deal than Tevez and Oscar taking the money and a trickle of older players could become more of an exodus if they change their homegrown player rule. As you say, they have money and in the end that always talks. Is the Chinese football league actually financially viable in the longer-term in its own right? I know I've gone off the subject of Everton there except it does affect us in the near future.

{Ed002's Note -
Since China opened up it has thrown a massive potential market in to the mix for professional sports (not just football, but there are other growth sports as well) and a number of Chinese companies see the potential for significant income form the game. Chinese money is already flooding through football with ownership and/or investment in clubs as diverse as Inter Milan, Espanyol, Den Haag, Milan, Sochaux, Aston Villa, Milan, Atletico Madrid, Slavia Prague and significantly, City Football Group. City of course owns Manchester City, New York City, Yokohama F Marino and Melbourne City - and are looking to expand in to China and South America. For years the professional game in China was under a cloud of corruption (including match-fixing) and the Chinese, and to be fair FIFA, have worked very hard to resolve the issues. The game is on the up there and they have the money to pretty much do what they want, and this involves taking a mix of players to play in China - there are high profile players at high-profile English sides that are being offered significant financial rewards for moving to China. There is now a shift coming in Europe and I would expect to see further investment in European sides - there is one organization looking hard at Germany and another already successful in buying in to Italy. They of course have to work within certain legal ownership frameworks and that will restrict investment in certain countries. Do not be surprised to see another English side be taken over by Chinese owners in the not too distant future (let me suggest Lander might look to Southampton as a viable option since their preferred choice is gone). Meanwhile, the profile of the game at home is increasing and the market to be tapped significant. I spent several months in Hong Kong working in both 1988 and again in 1990 and it was clear then that the mainland needed a step change and it could get leverage over so much - since then that has happened. Six months working out of Beijing in 2005 (until they pretty much forced me out) showed that changes were happening - since then I understand from colleagues who do visit that it has moved on a lot.

In terms of my personal view:

The Chinese are intent on cleaning up their act and want to promote sport within a nation that has only recently fully opened their doors to the outside world. There is a significant shift in wealth to the Far East and in particular China. They will invest and build in their own leagues and they will go to other parts of the world to learn. Chelsea has lost one player to China and has had an approach about a second. Other players from the EPL will follow with at least one Manchester City and at least one Liverpool player having opportunities in China for this season that they did not take up - but in the longer term the Chinese will cherry pick and then look to grow. This then leads to potential movement of players within the consortia (as Udinese has done with Watford) and that is something we will see more of but there are pleanty of walls in the way based on (a) convenience, and (b) potential abuse of national or international FFP rules. They will learn from the mistakes of others and they will soon be looking to add coaching capabilities by recruiting from other leagues. It is progress - like it or not.}

The coming years will see lots of changes. You know about the pan-European breakaway proposals, well there is going to be a counter-proposal backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin which is soon to be tabled (at the end of August to the "elite" clubs and in December to everyone else). There will be more global City Football Group style collectives appearing. There will be growth in China. And so it goes.}


6.) 07 May 2017 12:20:02
Thank you Ed for giving us the benefit of all that background knowledge. It puts our domestic plans into context. Interesting times ahead! China will change the world over the next few years that's for sure and we'd better open our eyes to it.


7.) 07 May 2017 18:49:27
So all these greedy b*st*rds will kill football.

Very good read ed02.

I personally wouldn't subscribe or watch any break away league, if we can not reach it I have no interest in it. I only watch champions league now and then hoping one day to see the blues in it.

Wonder what state football will be in if it destroys other leagues and fails itself.

{Ed002's Note - It is a natural progression.}


 

 

27 May 2016 19:20:36
Ed002 did we actually have a serous look at Favre? I thought he'd have been really good for us. We presumably could have competed with Nice on salary if we'd wanted him, although I guess living on the Cote d'Azur is worth something.

coyb

{Ed002's Note - Everton certainly considered Favre but he knew he was not going to be first pick. Nice gave him an offer, they have a nice new stadium and, as you say, the South of France is a better place to live than Merseyside - although perhaps not Nice itself.}


1.) 27 May 2016 19:37:59
Have you been to Bootle, Ed? I'd swap it for Nice. So if he knew he wasn't first pick, does that mean they had an order of preference from the start or just he knew he hadn't impressed them that much after talking to them?

{Ed002's Note - The club has potential managers where they want to guage their interest and they don't want to make a knee-jerk reaction even though that is what many of the fans want.}


2.) 28 May 2016 07:31:30
Spot on. Look what happened last time.


3.) 28 May 2016 07:58:34
Again, last time Martinez was appointed on 5th June. 2 months after Moyes has given notice. Wasn't a knee jerk reaction.


 

 

 

coyb's banter posts with other poster's replies to coyb's banter posts

 

16 Oct 2017 18:26:04
I don't know what the board are really thinking about Koeman, but as discussed below, it's not easy to see who would be an ideal replacement if he were to go now. None of the names mentioned so far are great choices. It seems the fans at least have not learned the lessons of our last two appointments and are still looking only at the EPL for managerial successors, except for completely unrealistic names like Ancelotti? There are some great up and coming managers round Europe at 'smaller' clubs than Everton, though we may have to wait until the end of the season for the best. The key question is what a manager gets out of the players at their disposal. Koeman has never in nearly 18 years overachieved, with the possible slight exception of Southampton. Harry Redknapp could win the Bundesliga with Bayern, we don't need Ancelotti. Not many managers could win the French Cup with Guingamp, get Monchengladbach, Nice or Leipzig into the Champions League, take Atalanta into Europe or finish 4th with Hoffenheim. We should be looking at Nagelsmann and Gasperini; the boat might have sailed on Favre, Hasenhuttl and Gourvennec. There are at least six richer clubs than us in this league so we need someone with a record of overachieving. Someone with some tactical awareness and some social skills would be good too. If it gets too far into a relegation battle, RK might have to go, but it would be very short sighted to sack him only to get in another manager who won't take us anywhere. I would go for Unsworth if we need a caretaker, but long-term, we need someone with a proven record in one of the top five leagues.

coyb

1.) 16 Oct 2017 19:18:25
Rafa for me.


2.) 16 Oct 2017 19:23:03
Good post coyb
Youre right about looking at managers with a proven track record
Its hard to believe that we picked Koeman for any other reason than he is a well known name.


3.) 16 Oct 2017 19:25:00
Good post that.

What I would say is that I thought Koeman was one of those managers before he came to us. He did a fantastic job with Southampton, particularly when they sold all their decent players every season.

I thought he'd treat coming to us as his next step and an audition for Barcelona, so I really do not understand where it's all gone wrong. Surely he must realise he's going to get sacked if it doesn't turn round, while at the same time realising it's not going to turn round if he doesn't do something different. It's almost like he wants to get sacked.


4.) 16 Oct 2017 20:00:48
Ive been thinking he wants to get sacked for some time now
Same as Bobby before him
Gets sacked massive payout
Lets face it he wasnt coming till we offered him 7m a season.


5.) 16 Oct 2017 20:06:16
Paulo Fonseca from Shankar Donesk being talked about having done the treble last year and wanting to manage in the Premier League.
Anyone know much about him .
City Manager rates him apparently.


6.) 17 Oct 2017 07:20:44
Very good shout. He's done wonders at three different clubs.


7.) 17 Oct 2017 10:04:58
Could always bring Brown Shoes back. He might fancy another £10 mill pay off. Wonder what Koemans pay off is.


8.) 17 Oct 2017 11:04:52
Southamptons set up with there director of football is what's working for them, don't they pick they coach to play the way Les Reed wants the team to play. Outside of Poch has anyone who left there made an impact anywhere else?


9.) 17 Oct 2017 12:55:36
True enough. That's why it's ideal to look for someone who's been able to overachieve at more than one club. There are no guarantees. Rafa hasn't overachieved at Newcastle: they should have won the Championship last season. He was rubbish at Inter, where they were way off the pace having won the treble the previous season under Mourinho. He's always ready to blame the club for his own failings. I'm not saying he hasn't achieved success - of course he has, but so he should have with the teams he's managed and he's often spent a ton of money on awful players and still underachieved. I would be happy to take a risk trying to find the next Pochettino, Mourinho or Jardim if the best alternative was taking a risk on Rafa, especially given the history. Finding someone who can improve us relative to what we can spend is the only way we break into the top 6.


 

 

14 Oct 2017 17:10:14
I'm no fan of RK but a bit of optimism here - if we and Newcastle win tomorrow, we'll be in the top half of the table.

coyb

1.) 14 Oct 2017 20:57:11
Yeah a win tomorrow puts us 3pts behind arsenal Chelsea and you know who, as bad as we've been that seems mental, clutching at straws I know for the optimism but come on lads get it together and string some results together. pretty please.


 

 

14 Oct 2017 17:10:14
I'm no fan of RK but a bit of optimism here - if we and Newcastle win tomorrow, we'll be in the top half of the table.

coyb

 

 

24 Aug 2017 22:09:26
Got to say I was one who was sceptical of spending that much on Gylfi but if that's him lacking match fitness, we're in for something special. Top class and his workrate great to see in a full debut. When you think there was no Gana, Seamus, Sandro, Klaassen even in the squad, things are looking up.

coyb

 

 

16 Jul 2017 12:05:27
I think we could do a lot worse than Pascal Groß from Ingolstadt. No idea if he's for sale, but then neither is Gylfi, apparently.

coyb

1.) 16 Jul 2017 17:15:01
Signed for Brighton on wiki.


 

 

 

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05 Jul 2017 18:18:55
Not that difficult. His goal to seal the 1985 European Cup Winner's Cup Final just after they'd pulled a goal back against the run of play.

coyb

 

 

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02 Jul 2017 14:37:11
He had the second best goals per minute ratio in the premier league last season. Only overtaken by Kane in the last couple of games. I think he'd work really well with Sandro, Lookman, Bolasie and, dare I say, Siggurdson. I think he's exactly the sort of player we need if we're prepared to play a more attacking game next season.

coyb

 

 

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03 Jun 2017 15:44:22
City fans like Stones a lot and think he just needs a better defender than Otamendi next to him. Their chairman also picked him out for praise just the other day. If they buy someone experienced or Kompany can stay fit, they certainly expect him to prove a good buy. Short-term, we got a good deal but as Degsy says, they didn't buy him for the short-term.

coyb

 

 

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10 May 2017 20:55:20
Good description of him, that, Smit.

coyb

 

 

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10 May 2017 20:00:10
Reports in Spain today he's going to Sevilla. Shame.

coyb

 

 

 

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17 Oct 2017 12:55:36
True enough. That's why it's ideal to look for someone who's been able to overachieve at more than one club. There are no guarantees. Rafa hasn't overachieved at Newcastle: they should have won the Championship last season. He was rubbish at Inter, where they were way off the pace having won the treble the previous season under Mourinho. He's always ready to blame the club for his own failings. I'm not saying he hasn't achieved success - of course he has, but so he should have with the teams he's managed and he's often spent a ton of money on awful players and still underachieved. I would be happy to take a risk trying to find the next Pochettino, Mourinho or Jardim if the best alternative was taking a risk on Rafa, especially given the history. Finding someone who can improve us relative to what we can spend is the only way we break into the top 6.

coyb

 

 

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17 Oct 2017 07:20:44
Very good shout. He's done wonders at three different clubs.

coyb

 

 

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11 Oct 2017 18:54:05
Agree with all that, Ed. Sad but true.

coyb

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate. Still, it is a step forward from Martinez!}


 

 

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10 Oct 2017 06:10:10
Interesting read as always, Ed. Nice to see an honorary, though unexpected, mention for Tom. I agree that he's not got the platform to shine so far this year but has the potential to be world class.

coyb

{Ed001's Note - I really like the lad, I just find it bizarre how he is being used. Watching Everton with Davies in is a totally different thing from watching Everton without him. You look more of a team when he plays and very few players can make that much difference to their team. It is odd that Koeman will not just go with him, but his treatment of him and Lookman does go a long way to explain why Southampton were so happy to be rid of him and made no attempt to persuade him to stay when Everton came in. Hopefully in a few years Davies will be in the list on pure merit.}


 

 

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11 Sep 2017 05:29:14
So you don't think Koeman had any part in transfer activity this summer? Are you saying Koeman wanted different players at different times and Kenwright overruled him? Or just that players like Giroud or Costa would have come to Everton if Bill hadn't been involved? Is there any evidence for that?

coyb