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coyb's rumours posts with other poster's replies to coyb's rumours posts

 

06 May 2017 09:13:10
Ed do you have any idea what sort of fees we would be paying for Willian Jose or Bakambu? Kingo suggested Iheanacho below. If he's looking to move on, I would have thought he'd be a great signing for us, though again not sure what the fee would be.

coyb

{Ed002's Note - I don't want to get in to the money because it causes a lot of confusion with football fans, but Everton has shown no interest in Kelechi Iheanacho - although another side has. I would not be suprised if Everton were to look to both Willian Jopse and Bakambu rather than one or the other.}


1.) 06 May 2017 10:11:27
Thanks Ed. I know you don't like to talk about money and understand why. Good news that we might have a couple of options in attack. I thought it would be one or other because Koeman usually plays a single striker and didn't think either would come to be 2nd choice.

{Ed002's Note - Bakambu is much more flexible and is comfortable anywhere as a forward rather than just a striker. WJ is very much a striker - but a couple of other EPL sides are keen as well.}


2.) 06 May 2017 10:22:18
Thanks Ed.

{Ed002's Note - You are welcome.}


3.) 06 May 2017 10:30:00
While you're on, Ed, may I ask a question? What do you think Everyone can reasonably hope for in terms of the club's progress over the next few (3-5) years? Do you see us being able to challenge the top 6 consistently, qualify for the champions league at all (whatever happened to talk of a breakaway European Super League - are we factoring that possibility in? ) Or is the club just looking to consolidate our position as a good premier league side who sometimes get European competition?

{Ed002's Note - I don't see a significant change. Other sides will be pushing Everton (Southampton might be a good example) and breaking in to the Champions League places will be very difficult but getting to a position of challenging will be possible. In five years time Everton should be settled in to the new stadium and they should be commercially growing. UEFA as you know are fighting the breakaway but Everton are not part of the breakaway plans.}


4.) 06 May 2017 13:19:16
Thanks Ed. I know Everton aren't part of those plans. I was just wondering if it happens where that leaves the Premier League and the remaining clubs.

{Ed002's Note - It remains very much an on-going issue with regular discussions on the matter between a dozen or more clubs. The next will be at the end of August.

Without going in to too much detail: (a) A number of clubs take the opportunity to meet and discuss various issues including changes in rules, club versus country issues, television and other media rights, the power of UEFA, exploitation issues for new technology streams, etc.. The meetings were annually but now they happen two and sometimes three times a year. There was a meeting in December – where there was a discussion about the state of FIFA, the situation with UEFA and a so far unpublished claim from a retired referee that the result of a Champions League game was influenced by a third party. These discussions also always turn to the possibility and structure of a breakaway pan European league. Several are ex-G14 clubs, several are not, and some clubs decline involvement in such discussions. (b) The plan is that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case. It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues. (c) The clubs would renegotiate their television and media rights, rights of distribution via other streams etc.. (d) It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen – which has resulted in a counter-proposal being drafted by UEFA. (e) Timing wise, two very prominent clubs want it to happen as soon as possible (2018 - obviously that isn't the case) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2022-4 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2027 and I suspect that could end up as the reality.

There is a counter-proposal to the pan-European breakaway that has partially been backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin. This is an option to the breakaway as everyone now knows the reality of it. The proposal is to rename and change the format of the UEFA Champions League to make it an elite closed-shop pan-European league with a fixed number of teams – and these would be the same teams every year. It would then require the restructuring of the Europa League and the possible introduction of a lower-tier European competition. Although they have yet to flesh out the detail and there is now a major concern that the impetus for this is not coming from Europe, although one major Football Association has given their support and discussions have also been held with the leading clubs from England (Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal). The American backer, Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins, has requested a meeting with an extant group of sides considering the pan-European breakaway to discuss his proposals. They have yet to respond but having identified the source of much of the funding (and that raising a concern) will wish to discuss it between themselves first. However, UEFA are now considering yet another proposal that would see some places in the CL fixed (probably to previous winners) and then see it supplemented by Champions and second place sides each season. This complicates matters again as it means the re-introduction of a third competition or the significant restructuring of the EL. The plan being put to clubs is a summer/preseason tournament that will evolve in to a parallel league, and of course eventually in to a complete breakaway for these clubs. As a first step to all of this, UEFA have negotiated minor changes that will see the four entrants from England, Germany, Spain and Italy enter the existing Champions League group stages without any qualification beyond their National League position (so no entry to qualifying rounds). This has been agreed by the European Club Association but UEFA did not want to discuss it with the separate group of “elite” sides discussing the Pan European League (and that “elite” group includes three English sides) as they are aware they will get no more than a shrug and no long-term support.

If the proposal for a breakaway goes ahead, there is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis.

A further counter proposal exists as a Chinese proposal from the Dalian Wanda Group proposes to open up the lucrative Chinese and Far Eastern media markets by extending the league to include Chinese and Southa American clubs. This has yet to be discussed by the "elite" sides as a group although the proposals have been presented to a number of them already on an individual basis. The proposals are very broad-based and lack detail - their selling point is significant additional income for the "elite".}


5.) 06 May 2017 20:00:38
Wow. Thanks for that very detailed explanation, Ed. Given all that, it seems quite likely that the will be a breakaway league in the sort of timeframe you outline here. If players of those clubs are banned by FIFA, that would surely be a bit of a spanner in the works, though? I guess FIFA will cave eventually. Interesting that there might be a two-tier pan-European solution. We'd have to hope Everton could get in that way? Would that two-tier system involve promotion and relegation? Eventually, it will probably go global, presumably? If Costa goes to China, it seems like a bigger deal than Tevez and Oscar taking the money and a trickle of older players could become more of an exodus if they change their homegrown player rule. As you say, they have money and in the end that always talks. Is the Chinese football league actually financially viable in the longer-term in its own right? I know I've gone off the subject of Everton there except it does affect us in the near future.

{Ed002's Note -
Since China opened up it has thrown a massive potential market in to the mix for professional sports (not just football, but there are other growth sports as well) and a number of Chinese companies see the potential for significant income form the game. Chinese money is already flooding through football with ownership and/or investment in clubs as diverse as Inter Milan, Espanyol, Den Haag, Milan, Sochaux, Aston Villa, Milan, Atletico Madrid, Slavia Prague and significantly, City Football Group. City of course owns Manchester City, New York City, Yokohama F Marino and Melbourne City - and are looking to expand in to China and South America. For years the professional game in China was under a cloud of corruption (including match-fixing) and the Chinese, and to be fair FIFA, have worked very hard to resolve the issues. The game is on the up there and they have the money to pretty much do what they want, and this involves taking a mix of players to play in China - there are high profile players at high-profile English sides that are being offered significant financial rewards for moving to China. There is now a shift coming in Europe and I would expect to see further investment in European sides - there is one organization looking hard at Germany and another already successful in buying in to Italy. They of course have to work within certain legal ownership frameworks and that will restrict investment in certain countries. Do not be surprised to see another English side be taken over by Chinese owners in the not too distant future (let me suggest Lander might look to Southampton as a viable option since their preferred choice is gone). Meanwhile, the profile of the game at home is increasing and the market to be tapped significant. I spent several months in Hong Kong working in both 1988 and again in 1990 and it was clear then that the mainland needed a step change and it could get leverage over so much - since then that has happened. Six months working out of Beijing in 2005 (until they pretty much forced me out) showed that changes were happening - since then I understand from colleagues who do visit that it has moved on a lot.

In terms of my personal view:

The Chinese are intent on cleaning up their act and want to promote sport within a nation that has only recently fully opened their doors to the outside world. There is a significant shift in wealth to the Far East and in particular China. They will invest and build in their own leagues and they will go to other parts of the world to learn. Chelsea has lost one player to China and has had an approach about a second. Other players from the EPL will follow with at least one Manchester City and at least one Liverpool player having opportunities in China for this season that they did not take up - but in the longer term the Chinese will cherry pick and then look to grow. This then leads to potential movement of players within the consortia (as Udinese has done with Watford) and that is something we will see more of but there are pleanty of walls in the way based on (a) convenience, and (b) potential abuse of national or international FFP rules. They will learn from the mistakes of others and they will soon be looking to add coaching capabilities by recruiting from other leagues. It is progress - like it or not.}

The coming years will see lots of changes. You know about the pan-European breakaway proposals, well there is going to be a counter-proposal backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin which is soon to be tabled (at the end of August to the "elite" clubs and in December to everyone else). There will be more global City Football Group style collectives appearing. There will be growth in China. And so it goes.}


6.) 07 May 2017 12:20:02
Thank you Ed for giving us the benefit of all that background knowledge. It puts our domestic plans into context. Interesting times ahead! China will change the world over the next few years that's for sure and we'd better open our eyes to it.


7.) 07 May 2017 18:49:27
So all these greedy b*st*rds will kill football.

Very good read ed02.

I personally wouldn't subscribe or watch any break away league, if we can not reach it I have no interest in it. I only watch champions league now and then hoping one day to see the blues in it.

Wonder what state football will be in if it destroys other leagues and fails itself.

{Ed002's Note - It is a natural progression.}


 

 

27 May 2016 19:20:36
Ed002 did we actually have a serous look at Favre? I thought he'd have been really good for us. We presumably could have competed with Nice on salary if we'd wanted him, although I guess living on the Cote d'Azur is worth something.

coyb

{Ed002's Note - Everton certainly considered Favre but he knew he was not going to be first pick. Nice gave him an offer, they have a nice new stadium and, as you say, the South of France is a better place to live than Merseyside - although perhaps not Nice itself.}


1.) 27 May 2016 19:37:59
Have you been to Bootle, Ed? I'd swap it for Nice. So if he knew he wasn't first pick, does that mean they had an order of preference from the start or just he knew he hadn't impressed them that much after talking to them?

{Ed002's Note - The club has potential managers where they want to guage their interest and they don't want to make a knee-jerk reaction even though that is what many of the fans want.}


2.) 28 May 2016 07:31:30
Spot on. Look what happened last time.


3.) 28 May 2016 07:58:34
Again, last time Martinez was appointed on 5th June. 2 months after Moyes has given notice. Wasn't a knee jerk reaction.


 

 

 

coyb's banter posts with other poster's replies to coyb's banter posts

 

16 Jul 2017 12:05:27
I think we could do a lot worse than Pascal Groß from Ingolstadt. No idea if he's for sale, but then neither is Gylfi, apparently.

coyb

1.) 16 Jul 2017 17:15:01
Signed for Brighton on wiki.


 

 

13 Jul 2017 15:06:22
Sterling, Stones and Lukaku are all young enough to be able to recoup a big transfer fee in 3-4 years - perhaps even make a profit the way the markets are going. This is way overpriced for Gylfi, who will be to old in four years. The are younger, better creative players in all four other major European leagues at clubs who haven't qualified for Europe.

coyb

1.) 13 Jul 2017 15:30:51
Completely agree. I have no problem with us spending 50mil. I just think if we are going to spend that much then there are better players we can get.


2.) 13 Jul 2017 16:04:16
Like?


3.) 13 Jul 2017 16:47:39
Sell on price is only a consequence if we are planning on selling him in 4 years time.


 

 

24 May 2017 17:59:39
It's not really our call what constitutes success for them. Lescott, Arteta and Fellaini all made a lot more money, played in the champs league and won at least one major trophy. Arteta captained Arsenal when they won the FA Cup. John Stones hasn't won a trophy yet but he has made the cash and played in the CL. He's also, let's face it, better place to win a trophy. Whatever we think, I doubt any of them would look back and think, "Wish I'd stayed put. "

coyb

1.) 24 May 2017 19:02:08
Great point. I thank these players for their service and look forward to the next season.


2.) 24 May 2017 21:16:34
I'm guessing this is referring to the thread on the rumours page coyb. I agree it is not 'our call' on what is success but everyone is entitlef to there opinion. Arteta at least stayed with Arsenal for a proper length of time. I did say his success was debatable. Meaning 50/ 50, 60/ 40, whatever.

But Lescott? Really? First of all when I talk about success I don't talk about an individual players bank balance. I talk about his performances on the pitch. Which imho is reflected on how much their club wants them to stay. City let Lescotts contract run down as far as I'm aware at the age of 31. A centre backs peak time of his career. Look Terry what age is he after winning the League. Now that is success.

Lescott was with City for 4 or 5 years and individually was he successful? We all know City were successful. Lescott imho was not one of the main players during his brief period at a successful City squad. He was a squad player. They didn't want to keep him. Would City say 'There is a big return on our investment. ' Imho No but its not for me to say.

Who wanted him after City didn't? WBA, Aston Villa and AEK in Greece, o yea and Sunderland. Desperate signing by them. 2 appearances all year. It has to be a record getting relegated 2 seasons in a row from the premiership but Lescott being successful managed that one. Last season after posting a picture of his motor at Villa. Showed how he measures success.

This season after 2 appearances with Sunderland. At 34 now still now too old to play on for a centre back where will he go? Who will have him. Distin played on until nearly 40. Imho he was a far better player.

Would Everton look at Lescott now and say 'Pity we didn't still have Lescott' I'd doubt it but its not for me to call.

Fellaini can't be properly seen as success or not imho. Not many Utd fans seem delighted he was bought. For the record imho he is undervalued by the Utd supporters but is appreciated by Mourinho. I hope he wins plenty of medals and is a success at Utd. Not like Djemba Djemba who probably has plenty of medals at a successful Utd squad. Was he a success?


3.) 24 May 2017 21:28:26
Exactly New Blue in the U. The only players I'd like to see at Everton are players who want to play for Everton. Not mercenaries or self righteous players. For example Coleman, Baines and Jagielka.


4.) 25 May 2017 06:39:34
Yeah it was supposed to go on the rumours page NBTB:-)
Lescott may not have been one of City's stars and Fellaini isn't liked by Utd fans, you're right. I still suspect they both feel they made the right decision moving. Others didn't, of course - Pienaar, Rodwell, etc. And I suspect Ross may actually be in this latter category if he goes. I can't see him as a success at that level. Lescott was a good defender in his day, Arteta was class, Fellaini. has been lucky, I think, but at least he's a physical presence in a team. Ross is not leaving Everton for glory with anyone else, whatever he thinks.

{Ed025's Note - i agree with all that coyb mate..


5.) 25 May 2017 08:22:15
I never said any of these players were in any way bad players just that their success after leaving Everton was not achieved to where it would of been thought before they leave. I agree totally Arteta was class. He spent a long time at Arsenal. Lescott was a good defender at Everton. With City not so good. Fellaini like I said imho is underrated by the Utd supporters and was probably our best player while he was with Everton.

Who knows why Ross is leaving Everton? Say what you want about him at least he did / is keeping quiet about it. Not like Rom who is not shy about his personal ambitions.

If Ross and Rom do decide to go Everton will cope without them. Just like Everton always has when players leave.

The only true 100% success story after a player left Everton for success is Wayne Rooney. He done it all. Utd played him well because they wanted to keep and he broke all sorts of records. Arteta and Fellaini have some certain amount of individual success. As for the rest imho it is very limited.


6.) 25 May 2017 09:31:28
This is all subjective, in my opinion: Arteta, Fellani and Lescott made successful moves. Rodwell and Gosling didnt. Who knows how Ross will get on. He is not the finished article so if he goes to the right team with a coaching staff that can get the best out of him then good luck to the lad. Just can't see that happening at any of the top 6 English teams.


 

 

10 May 2017 19:57:28
Our ambivalence towards Rom makes total sense once you remember that supporting a football team is a head thing AND a heart thing. It's like having the hottest nympho girlfriend but knowing that she thinks she can do better and is always flirting with other guys. However much you try, bigger, richer, better looking guys are always sniffing round her and she always seems interested. You know you should dump her but she's so hot and giving you regular good times. You'd have more money if you broke up but it's hard to let go. Would you really be happier with a nice girl, not as fit or randy but who appreciates being with you? Therein lies the dilemma.

coyb

{Ed025's Note - i got a bit of a touch on reading that coyb.. :)


1.) 10 May 2017 20:00:47
I got a bit of a touch on writing it, Ed.

{Ed025's Note - love it coyb..


2.) 10 May 2017 20:47:37
I would rather have someone with better ball control. 😍.


3.) 10 May 2017 20:53:44
And it's not so bad if you think you might get two for the price of one.


4.) 11 May 2017 09:33:20
Yes but you'll probably find that one of the two looks the part but just can't perform and the other is a bit plain but a good alrounder.


5.) 11 May 2017 14:17:32
Has to be the best analogy of the Lukaku situation I have ever heard!


 

 

10 Mar 2017 18:02:58
Can't believe I'm wasting my time writing about this but that clown who previews matches on the BBC football site has predicted as usual the blues to draw and the reds to win. Had a look at how his predictions relate to reality at the bottom of the page: over the season so far, he'd have that lot top of the league nearly 30 points ahead of us. Part of my license fee goes into his bank account. What a twit.

coyb

1.) 11 Mar 2017 09:07:22
sure you ment twit.


2.) 11 Mar 2017 13:39:24
There's a bigger clown COYB big nose Thompson on sky how they let him spew his biased views is beyond me he really is a James blunt.


 

 

 

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05 Jul 2017 18:18:55
Not that difficult. His goal to seal the 1985 European Cup Winner's Cup Final just after they'd pulled a goal back against the run of play.

coyb

 

 

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02 Jul 2017 14:37:11
He had the second best goals per minute ratio in the premier league last season. Only overtaken by Kane in the last couple of games. I think he'd work really well with Sandro, Lookman, Bolasie and, dare I say, Siggurdson. I think he's exactly the sort of player we need if we're prepared to play a more attacking game next season.

coyb

 

 

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03 Jun 2017 15:44:22
City fans like Stones a lot and think he just needs a better defender than Otamendi next to him. Their chairman also picked him out for praise just the other day. If they buy someone experienced or Kompany can stay fit, they certainly expect him to prove a good buy. Short-term, we got a good deal but as Degsy says, they didn't buy him for the short-term.

coyb

 

 

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10 May 2017 20:55:20
Good description of him, that, Smit.

coyb

 

 

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10 May 2017 20:00:10
Reports in Spain today he's going to Sevilla. Shame.

coyb

 

 

 

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22 Jul 2017 10:38:20
It certainly would from 5 games! 😂.

coyb

 

 

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21 Jul 2017 07:33:25
I take your point WB, but all those guys are small yet still manage the physicality. And let us never forget those 'proven in the prem' players who turned out to be garbage: Torres and Carroll. Having said that, we do need to bear in mind there is often an adjustment for players who come from slower-paced leagues or sunnier climates and tbf some never quite fulfill expectations - I guess you can say is one fewer risk factors, but not enough in my view to ignore talent elsewhere or pay an extra £20 million for.

coyb

 

 

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20 Jul 2017 12:20:27
Why limit ourselves with this 'proven in the prem' stuff? It's not like prem teams do well against these players in Europe. While we all remember some failures (Soldado, Schevchenko) , equally there are loads of players who came to the prem for the first time and turned out to be brilliant - especially in the playmaker position. Eriksen? Silva? Coutinho? Hazard? Mata? Özil? Would you really have paid more for someone 'in the prem' than for these players?

coyb

 

 

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05 Jul 2017 17:30:54
I wish I could honestly say I thought Rooney coming back would be a good thing for us, but I just don't know. The wages could be an issue but if he comes on a free, then the overall cost of the reported 2-year contract is reasonable for someone with his on-field pedigree. It's the equivalent of a £16 million fee and wages of £100k/ week.

In the market at the moment, that seems like the going rate for average players. I agree with Denver that the rest of the squad may not see it like that and it could be disruptive. I also worry about how Lookman, Davies, Dowell, DCL will get opportunities in the first team, which they deserve.

Add in rumours about Giroud, who will only come if he'll get more game time than at Arsenal, Bolasie coming back from injury, and Kev. Presumably, Ross must be going? It'll be tough for those youngsters to develop with the competition for first team places. Still, it should be tough and I'd much rather be in this position than having a squad with no depth.

My only concern is it needs to be tough for Rooney to get in this team as well. No free passes based on reputation - he's got to be fit and hungry. My worry is he doesn't look either at the moment, but that could be due to factors at Man Utd.

Given the way business has been done so far, we have to trust the men in charge - they seem to have a plan this time! So lock up your grannies, close the casinos and welcome him back if he comes.

coyb

 

 

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17 Jun 2017 07:15:54
Totally agree. Especially at the prices I've seen touted. Doesn't make any sense to me, this one. Still, both SW and RK seem to be convinced, with rumours that Wenger also wants him. Maybe I'm missing something.

coyb