Everton Discussion posts 2

10 Apr 2024 11:41:07
Hey Ed 025 where do you stand with this latest 2 point deduction and all the rigmarole that goes with it, when I first heard this latest deduction I though not too bad we now know where we stand and it's in our hands to keep climbing the table like after our latest couple of games and we will be fine, now however reading different articles from every expert there is ie trusted journalists in the know journalists and I have heard journalists is it correct that we and the Premiership could be sued by clubs that have gone down this and last year it all sounds sour grapes to me and to top it all it's now being reported we could get hit for a third time over an overspend on our new stadium, where is this going to end the light at the end of the tunnel is getting dimmer mate


season.

{Ed025's Note - i think we should appeal (again) GB, we are being scapegoated mate and should not just lie down and take it, they intend to make an example of us because we spoke out about the SLY6 and wanted them punished for trying to break up the premier league imo, im just pissed off with it all now..

10 Apr 2024 12:20:47
On top of all that just reading that if 777 get the go ahead to purchase Everton then Dyche will get the push in favour of in their words a more exciting manager, this is all set to run and run mate.

10 Apr 2024 12:44:58
Hmm, looking at their portfolio of clubs, it makes me wonder who their "exciting manager" would be and where from. Not the USA I hope.

10 Apr 2024 12:49:29
Not sure the club can be sued as surely it would have to be the premier league that would be the target as we’ve been punished by the pre her league for our misdemeanours.

Also if clubs start suing each other it’ll never end as any discrepancy one club has with another would then be fair game.

Would imagine it would be similar to the nhs in that if there is a problem with a doctor or nurse it’s the trust they work for that gets sued not the individual. So the individuals in this case the teams are all working u see the umbrella of the premier league and ultimately they are responsible.

10 Apr 2024 21:08:56
As long as they don’t think ‘Ted Lasso’ is a documentary Nick, we may be ok….

10 Apr 2024 01:57:08
Man City have ffp type investigations against them as do Chelsea. Spurs stadium finance was very similar to ours. the big six fined less than £4 million each for wanting to break away. does seem like a two tier system to me ??‍♂️.

No doubt Ed02 will have a withering response about how everything is different but rightly or wrongly it feels like we're being singled out.

UTFT NSNO.

{Ed001's Note - it is totally different, not sure how you can't see it? Spurs was nothing like yours at all. That is just ignorant nonsense or an outright lie. If you don't understand the difference, try educating yourself on why they did not get themselves into financial difficulties to fund a stadium. It is not difficult to do.

As for Man City, they did not submit accounts which showed they had breached FFP regs as Everton did. They have been caught out having falsified accounts and making payments outside of the accounts. But because they are lying through their teeth and denying the charges, the onus is now on the Prem and the FA to prove those charges. The evidence has not been handed to them and guilt admitted like in Everton's case. That is why the case stretches back so many years. It should also be remembered that it was only because of the football leaks hack that any of City's cheating came to light, so the best and clearest evidence of wrongdoing that was obtained there is inadmissible because it was obtained illegally. Then also remember that City's lawyers are doing everything possible to obstruct the process.

Again, in Chelsea's case they did not submit accounts showing their guilt and admit to it. What has happened is that new owners have come in and, in the course of doing an audit on the club's books, found evidence of hidden payments etc that were never declared to the FA and Premier League. They have come forward themselves and delivered the evidence to the league, which has to investigate it and find out exactly how far reaching it is and exactly what it entails. Again totally unlike your case and the Forest one as they do not have it laid out openly what the club did wrong. The investigation into the accounts can take a long time. Would you rather they just slapped a punishment on them without actually knowing what exactly they are punishing them for? Or would you rather they investigated it and found out what exactly went on and then decided on how to proceed?

The questions that should be asked are why the Premier League and FA have not been proactive on FFP, to actually ensure sustainability of clubs as the regulations were intended. This issue with Everton was coming for years, they knew it was there but they sat on their hands and waited until the brown stuff hit the fan rather than getting in there and acting. The regs should not be about punishing clubs like Forest and Everton, though in Chelsea and Man City's case it is different as they have actively cheated to avoid the regs. The regs should be used to stop clubs getting into difficulty and that could have easily been done with a bit of effort. All they had to do was apply a transfer ban earlier and you do not breach FFP by spending more on more players that flop and instead have to turn to the youth system and give players like Simms a shot. Would he have been any worse than Beto? I don't think so. Imo you would have been in a better place with a transfer ban. It didn't even need to be a full block on all incoming transfers. Just tight limits on how much you can spend based on a percentage of sales and limiting incoming players to lower wages than the average within the squad to lower the wage bill. FFP and the FA should be acting to help clubs manage finances, not to punish them for getting it wrong, but actively seeking to guide them so they don't.}

10 Apr 2024 07:30:56
Great insightful response Ed ? Cheers.

Does feel that every man and his dog is against us at the moment albeit of our own doing.

We will be back one day. ??.

{Ed001's Note - every club's fans feel that way, it is because what we see is limited to stuff about our own club. It means we don't realise how others are suffering the same or worse. What is worrying is that FFP was meant to stop exactly what is happening at Everton. The changes to the regulations are an improvement but still they are not going to actually stop it until the FA and Premier League itself take an active part in overseeing clubs and their finances. Annoying as that would be for fans, oversight is needed as humans can't be trusted. Sadly.}

10 Apr 2024 07:58:52
Humans can't be trusted is very true Ed, which throws the corruption theory out there. For the sake of football and sport let's hope they get their acts together and the likes of City and Chelsea care dealt with accordingly but sadly I don't think they will and the timing of the regulation changes will only add fuel to the fire, misinformation and reporting doesn't help.

{Ed001's Note - corruption is rife, especially where there is money involved. The more money, the more corruption there is - and the Premier League is full of money. Luckily the regulation changes do not affect the City and Chelsea charges, they are in trouble based on the laws at the time and no changes to current laws will effect that. Plus they would still be in breach anyway as there is a large portion of the charges related to under the counter payments to top up salaries, hidden from the FFP/PSR calculations.}

10 Apr 2024 08:24:55
Brilliant input ed 001 i think the board have totally ducked it in terms of our outcomes in point deductions but i'm just hoping we can pull together try pick up as many points between now and end season then hopefully if we do stsy up we need a reset and its no overnight fix i think moshiri needs to go do i want 777 no honestly but is there any other alternatives if that deal can't be concluded also are wage bill seriously needs addressing you look at keane gomes alli holgate maupay these all need to be moved on but i honestly can't see many takers on the names i have mentioned as much as we don't like dyche his set up and his tactics and substitutes as much as i would like a change of manager as dan mentioned few days back can we actually afford to sack him and in all honesty what manager would want to come in at this moment of time with an owner who has vanished and seems to me there's no real leadership in the boardroom an no guidance or strategy for us fans who included meself have suffered these last 3.4 years with relegation battles point deductions and lack of vision worrying times ahead i reckon.

{Ed001's Note - it is very worrying. There is one other reason to stick with Dyche I think, though he has shown he is not the long term answer. That is his experience of a similar situation when he took over at Burnley. Howe ran out on them and left them in a real mess, wages too high and the club was on the verge of administration. Dyche came in, sold off all the high earners and yet still managed to grind out the results to get them promoted to the Premier League that season. So he can cope in adversity, even if he has shown he is not the man to get good football out of a team.}

10 Apr 2024 09:33:40
Shame he won’t give our youth a try Ed01. I’m all for getting the high earners like Alli of the book. Imagine if we hadn’t wasted money on him.

{Ed001's Note - that is bizarre how little faith he has in youth players. They will try a little harder than a player who has been signed.}

10 Apr 2024 10:49:18
Ed001 thanks for the info, Very insightful stuff. Also agree it is bizarre how Dyche continues not to trust the youth. Cheers.

09 Apr 2024 11:50:41
Anyone correct me if I am wrong but the next charge looms for approx £85/ £90 million in losses?

I have read in places that because clubs will now be aware of our situation, our bargaining position will be weaker and therefore the value of our most saleable assets will now have to be dropped.

If we don't raise the £90 million, what will happen Eds? Is it just going to be another points deduction? Additionally, considering we got an initial 10pts for being £20 million over, is it reasonable to expect that £90 million would mean around 40 points would be taken off?

Thanks for the info, appreciate it.

{Ed002's Note - Try not to confuse the clubs accounts with the financial statements for P&S/FFP - they are different with such matters as infrastructure costs removed and youth development costs excluded. Everton will need to raise funds by June 30 to balance the books - they can do this through assured sales which is why they may need to sell the likes of Branthwaite, Onana or Calvert-Lewin. A couple of players will return from loan and can also be sold, together with some fringe players. Everton have another eight players who are out of contract in the summer. You are correct that other clubs will be looking to a bargain or two. Someone needs to be looking at the U21 side and seeing who can step up.}

09 Apr 2024 12:35:12
Why do EFC need to balance the books by 30th June, they have already sumbitted the accounts for 22/ 23 so surely the next accounts submitted for 23/ 24 would be by march 31st 2025?

{Ed002's Note - P&S/FFP accounts are different as I explained. They cover the period until the end of the season on June 30.}

09 Apr 2024 12:44:34
I agree, Ed, time to reset, make sure without any doubt that we are within the financial restrictions in the future. If this means that we have to sell, use our u21s and only complete free transfers and loans, then so be it. Our performances couldn’t be much worse anyway. Branthwaite aside, I don’t think our sellable assets are irreplaceable. The likes of Dobbin, Welch, Chermiti etc will have to step up. Perhaps Lee Carsley is the man to work with a young squad?

09 Apr 2024 16:54:17
Well rather than sell our best players why don’t we just sell the naming rights to BMD?

{Ed002's Note - The value of it is tiny in real terms.}

10 Apr 2024 10:54:37
Ed is spot on. We used to be a selling Club. Need to get back to developing our own. Survive this Season sell our assets bring in someone that trusts in our young upcoming. Short term fixes create bigger problems down the line.

08 Apr 2024 16:34:58
One of the suggestions is that Everton should have foreseen or acted sooner after Russia invaded Ukraine. The Premier League continued to benefit financially from TV deals with Russia during this period. A little more hypocrisy to throw on the pile. We overspent by 16 million in the most recent charge, less than our sponsorship income from Usminov, how many clubs could be in profit without their main sponsor?

09 Apr 2024 23:07:07
How many clubs owners are their main sponsor?

08 Apr 2024 16:02:01
We have 4 very winnable games against Forest, Brentford, Luton and Sheff Utd. Win them and we'll be ok I reckon.
The other 3 are against Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal. Only points available realistically is Chelsea

It's still in our hands even with this extra sanction.
UTFT. COYB.

08 Apr 2024 17:38:27
Sorry but after watching that Burnley game I have no confidence we will beat any of them.

08 Apr 2024 22:01:42
Totally agree Woburn. They are all playing better football than us, higher tempo football and can all score. Don't want to sound a doom merchant but we'll need to improve dramatically if we want to win some of those games.
Worries the life out of me.

08 Apr 2024 23:42:48
We might bore them into submission?

09 Apr 2024 09:46:49
If we do manage to stay in the Premier? Dyche will have to go for me!

09 Apr 2024 10:44:01
I’m not a big fan of the football we are currently playing but if we stay in the league then Dyche deserves a medal.

Not sure many managers would be able to do similar with all the stress and uncertainty that has surrounded the club this season as well as having 8pts deducted from the total.

Seen a lot of fans calling for him to go but can’t see it happening .

There’s no money at club and can’t afford another manager being paid off as that’s one of the reasons we’re in such a mess.

If he keeps us up with everything happened this season would imagine club would also find it hard to sack him.

09 Apr 2024 11:44:50
Totally agree GD. If he keeps us up then he deserves a season of hopefully less upheaval but that looks unlikely next season with yet another possible sanction and player exodus.

We got to be realistic and question who in their right mind takes us on in this mess. Keep Dyche until calmer waters, Dyche needs to mix it up a bit next season though, but for now premiership survival to paramount if not pleasant on the eye.

09 Apr 2024 12:27:07
That's the problem Mocker. Dyche can't mix it up and plays the same dross week in week out. Nothing to do with the players. They play as told and he does not use them to their strengths. If he gets new ones in he will look for Dyche type players and we will end up another Burnley. He has to go. We need someone with a youth policy and who can relive what we have. We can't afford the luxury of a transfer binge.

09 Apr 2024 13:19:54
Not championing him to say Nick, just can't see a realistic solution.

Agree he has to mix it up and tbf to him maybe under less chaotic surroundings he may well do, if he fails to do that then yes needs to go, trouble is as you rightly say if we buy it will be his type of players which won't necessarily fit the next managers plans, and the cycle start again.

If we can get a suitable person in in the summer then fair do's but needs doing before the season starts and can't see them queuing for this one Nick.

09 Apr 2024 16:20:33
We have along journey ahead Mocker and, one I wonder if we will complete in the time I have left.

09 Apr 2024 23:09:19
A medal? Guys been there a whole season and still plays crap football.

08 Apr 2024 14:05:50
2 point deduction if rumours are true board absolutely should be ashamed of themselves but now its up 2 our players are management to pick up many points between now end season and stay up i'm not going to lie i was expecting more points but we have game in hand its on us to finish season in prem and start from scratch from the top to bottom.

08 Apr 2024 14:03:02
Ok two points isn't the end of the world is it. Could've been worse. Don't know about an appeal though?

08 Apr 2024 14:14:24
Its not mate me personally i was expecting more say if we appeal could we get more points taking from us if the appeal is unsuccessful i woudnt appeal if its case and stay with the points which already been giving the joys supporting Everton ?.

08 Apr 2024 13:37:36
We played one of the worst teams in the league on Saturday at home and looked absolutely diabolical. They out-passed us and had 1 man less on the pitch. The only reason we scored was due to some good old fashioned pressing by Dom and a slice of luck. The amount of times we wasted the ball with an outrageously poor pass in and around their area was frightening.

Another week goes by and another decision goes against us. That was the 2nd successive game where we should have had a penalty. It is evident that there is a clear agenda to prioritise the big teams in this league and hamper everyone else.

Without even taking into account the points we will inevitably have taken off us. The only thing that could keep us up this season is the fact that there are 3 or 4 equally shocking teams that have a tougher run than us and some of them play each other.

I am trying to look at the remaining fixtures in the worst possible light for us and the best possible light for the others, whilst maintaining a sense of reality with regards to what points can actually be picked up, be that draws or wins.

Brentford have their best players back now and score plenty of goals. They also have the easiest run in out of anyone. They easily pick up 7-9 points or more before the season is out so I think they can be considered safe.

As for the others .

Forest 8-11 points. (Wolves, Us, Sheffield, Chelsea and Burnley)

Palace 3-5 points. (West Ham and Fulham)

Luton 5-7 points. (Brentford, Us and Fulham)

Sheffield 4-6 points. (Burnley, Forest and Us)

Burnley 1-3 points. (Brighton, Sheffield and Forest)

Everton - 3-5 points. (Forest, Brentford, Luton and Sheffield)

That would end up with a table looking something like this

15. Forest - 36pts
16. Palace - 35 pts
17. Everton - 34 pts
18. Luton - 31 pts
19. Burnley - 22 pts
20. Sheffield - 21 pts

This points deduction is going to be the determining factor on whether we stay in the PL or not and I imagine the powers that be are loving every second of it and is also why they are taking so long, so they can see what they can get away with.

08 Apr 2024 08:45:54
Watched the Forest game yesterday and watched highlights of Lutons and Brentfords games and I'm worried. They all play better football, move the ball quickly and look dangerous going forward. I know we won on Saturday but I think we are going to really struggle against them.

{Ed025's Note - i could not agree more TB..

08 Apr 2024 09:34:15
Everyone plays better more attractive football even Palace since they culled their dinosaur. We have the last diplodocus in the park. When you start to watch Chris Wood and get striker envy, you know your team sucks.

08 Apr 2024 09:34:40
They’re certainly easier on the eye. I’m not sure what people expected from a SD team. He was bought in to keep us up in very difficult and uncertain circumstances. If he does that, I’ll wish him well, and hope that we take the next step and finally get someone in that is forward thinking, progressive and wants to be connected to the team and the fans. Easy eh?

08 Apr 2024 11:18:40
I knew exactly what we'd get and we got it.

07 Apr 2024 21:14:57
With the 2nd charge of FFP/ PSR or whatever it's called.
I was thinking of possible scenarios and what would be the best out of the following.
1. Points deduction (4 points)
2. Transfer ban for the season
3 A fine

It might sound crazy but I think a points deduction might be the best option.
Lots of people have complained about the squad and lack of depth. So if we had a transfer ban we wouldn't be able replace any of the players leaving whether they are fringe or 1st team players.
A fine surely this would mean that we would then breach it again at a later date.

07 Apr 2024 22:25:04
A points deduction might see us down Monkey. Think I would take a transfer ban and a new manager like Potter to work with what we've got and bring on the youngsters. Can we still loan players with a transfer ban?

08 Apr 2024 06:44:26
No Nick asked the same question myself. Be a complete ban on incomings.

Can see the logic of taking a 4pt hit and taking our chances but anything more and we won't survive.

08 Apr 2024 07:18:14
Good topic lads a suspended points deduction would be brilliant but sadly i think we will get docked points how many points we get docked who knows but that doesn't stop us trying to pick up as many points between now and end season we need to up are game though luton and fair play to them are going well and not many points behind but yano something lads i honestly think we can go Chelsea monday night and win won't be easy but if we get at them early who knows.

07 Apr 2024 20:35:18
Really enjoyed jarrad braithwaite this season good in the air can tackle looks composed when on the ball if he keeps his head down and keeps playing the way he is i honestly think he will be will be one hell of a center half for us or any other team i don't want to loose him but if we can stay up and if a good bid comes in be shame to loose him but it comes with a price 60.80 million maybe i think chelsea united and maybe liverpool could look at him as a vvd replacement just my opinion thought would love to see him go real madrid but can't
see it but we definitely need look down the championship league 1 and league 2 for future buys with potential always a gem waiting to be found.