Everton Discussion posts 2

15 Apr 2024 00:59:50
Great going Tommy Fleetwood. Maybe he can buy the club?

14 Apr 2024 17:19:51
Meeting tomorrow apparently 777 with Andy Bell and George Downing saying they may demand ownership of our new stadium as payment for their loans so far, put this post up re Bell and Downing a couple of weeks ago looks as though it might be happening, what a bloody mess our Club is in.

14 Apr 2024 17:51:15
So give away our best asset? Yes that’s really going to help us move forward.

14 Apr 2024 19:12:33
How did it get to this mess, when Moshiri took over he was going to be our saviour, now well Nightmare comes to mind.

{Ed025's Note - it beggars belief GB..

14 Apr 2024 20:16:09
I shudder to think what GrumpyToffee would have made of all this Ed mate.

{Ed025's Note - he would have renamed himself...Even Grumpier Toffee GB, I still really miss him mate..

14 Apr 2024 21:29:17
Sorry GB but that makes no sense.

Moshiri is still our owner so not sure how a meeting between 777 with Andy Bell and George Downing can make a decision regards ownership of the stadium?

It’s up to moshiri what happens not 777 nor Andy Bell or George Downing.

14 Apr 2024 22:06:41
Agree Gingerdan the may demand but the are unlikley to get what the want.

15 Apr 2024 00:55:48
Grumpy is truly missed.

14 Apr 2024 20:49:54
True Ed the guy was brilliant.

15 Apr 2024 05:18:04
Gingerdan it is about converting MSP considerable loan (that 777 cannot repay) into equity and yes Moshri is involved.

15 Apr 2024 11:08:28
But that wasn’t what the original post stated.

Moshiri wasn’t even mentioned.

Not sure why 777 have to repay anything to MSP as they aren’t our owners - surely it’s up to Moshiri to either pay that loan back or make a deal with MSP

Absolutely nothing to do with 777.

They may have significant loans to the club but that’s all at the moment - makes no sense why they are being involved in any discussions that is nothing to do with them.

They’ve had 7 months to complete the takeover so clearly something isn’t right somewhere for it still not to be ratified - time Moshir moved on from them and tries to find someone who is willing to purchase us and has the funds and means to do so rather than these chancers 777.

15 Apr 2024 17:54:41
Well said Dan.

12 Apr 2024 12:23:18
An article in the guardian regarding our finances is very worrying indeed. Sourcing funding from offshore lenders at an interest rate of over 10% shows us how much FM and his cronies have taken this club to the brink. If points deductions are still to be a punishment in the next few seasons then we will be starting on negative points for most of them. If we survive that is.
We are flirting with administration which, in turn, will see us relegated at some point. FM needs to do the right thing, for once during his tenure, and open up the bidding for new owners. 777 have already shown that they don't have the required funds to buy us and move us forward, we need someone that can, with time, turn around the finances and get us away from our financial woes. FM has almost ruined our club.
What's annoying is that the Premier league's own fit and proper persons test actually doesn't mean too much. I mean in the sense that it will weed out those without the capital to be able to buy a club yet they can't tell how stupid a person with plenty of cash can be.
Any chance of some good news for once, rather than more doom and gloom every day?

12 Apr 2024 12:32:09
The Esk has put forth three options for the takeover as he explains the third one: “Minimally require an immediate cash injection of £340–360million (assuming £80-100million to Laing O’Rourke) by 777 Partners to effect the takeover. If the conversion of loans to equity require refinancing elsewhere within the 777 Partnership then the cash requirement is likely and reasonably calculated to be over £500million.

“Option (iii) provides a stadium worth considerably more than the debt owed to MSP but (a) the stadium is not complete and requires additional funding and perhaps more importantly (b) the stadium’s value is entirely tied up with Everton’s future solvency and capacity to play there in the future and in which League or division.
Acquisition of the stadium alone, does not solve Everton’s liquidity problems and may arguably push Everton Football Club Company Limited into balance sheet insolvency, as without the stadium its liabilities are surely greater than its assets. ”

Further to my above post, this is what The Esk has to say on our finances. It's a stark reminder of how far we have fallen since FM rocket into town. Sad days.

12 Apr 2024 09:37:21
Walking dog this morning with me everton bobble hat on and van pulls next to me so driver says blimey youse have been awful this season so i said yeah we actually have so said to him by the way whose you're team he said tranmere rovers and drove off can only be supporting the blue boys hopefully we can go stamford bridge monday and put a 90min shift in i would take a point right now maybe 3 the way chelsea been playing won't be easy that's for sure UTFT??.

11 Apr 2024 22:26:28
With the latest points deduction am I right in thinking we have 2 weeks to appeal?
Could we wait and see where we are after our next 2 games before we lodge an appeal. Only saying this because if we get some good results and results go our way would it be more beneficial for the club/ players knowing that the situation is done so they don't have the added stress of it along with keeping all of us lot happy.

11 Apr 2024 22:32:42
Think we only have a week to appeal and the club have been clear that they intend to. Such a mess.

12 Apr 2024 12:36:37
I don't think we had a choice but to appeal mate. Forest have already put theirs in, if they are successful then they will get some points back which wouldn't be too good for us. It's worth a try although I'm not sure on what grounds we have a case for appeal.

14 Apr 2024 14:02:04
Get something at Chelsea, and we move well towards safety. That’s step one. Many more problems in the background.

10 Apr 2024 13:33:03
Hi all, new to the site and have a/ many questions regarding the takeover.
As I understand it, if 777 cannot repay MSP's loan by Monday the 15th of April, MSP will be able to aquíre a 51% stake in the club.
Is that a bad thing? As MSP look like a far more competent outfit than 777. Any more info on this Ed/ fellow toffees?

{Ed002's Note - It is not quite like that. The debts need to be paid or renogotiated. 777 Partners want two of the MSP team to join their bid and are happy to trade part of the stadium to do this. There is no 51% but MSP can convert their debt in to equity in the stadium.}

10 Apr 2024 14:28:46
Thanks Ed. Do you think there are any other groups waiting to come in when/ if 777's takeover fails?

{Ed002's Note - There will be a few vultures circling.}

10 Apr 2024 14:56:08
Presumably if MSP have equity in the club/ stadium it’s in their interests to ensure the club succeed, both financially and in a sorting sense? So wouldn’t this be a good thing?

{Ed002's Note - There is no question that anyone involved will want it to be a success.}

10 Apr 2024 15:56:29
Welcome to the madhouse scottishtoffee ?.

10 Apr 2024 16:26:35
I can assure you this is no pleasure dome Scottish Toffee.

10 Apr 2024 17:34:02
Relax PGP, it's not like two tribes are going to war. (I'll get my coat! ) ) ?.

{Ed025's Note - love it Mocker..

10 Apr 2024 19:41:06
I see 777 have requested more time, what a shower of .

{Ed025's Note - Shite is the word you are looking for ST..

10 Apr 2024 19:48:04
Hahahaa thanks Ed, wasn't sure of the rules.

{Ed025's Note - if you put it ST it would be deleted mate, Editors have special privileges.. :)

10 Apr 2024 22:23:27
Don't worry Ed in future it will be referred to that "S word that Ed025 used".

{Ed025's Note - good idea that Mike...personally i dont give a s***.. :)

10 Apr 2024 22:33:26
MSP coming on board makes sense to me.

10 Apr 2024 11:41:07
Hey Ed 025 where do you stand with this latest 2 point deduction and all the rigmarole that goes with it, when I first heard this latest deduction I though not too bad we now know where we stand and it's in our hands to keep climbing the table like after our latest couple of games and we will be fine, now however reading different articles from every expert there is ie trusted journalists in the know journalists and I have heard journalists is it correct that we and the Premiership could be sued by clubs that have gone down this and last year it all sounds sour grapes to me and to top it all it's now being reported we could get hit for a third time over an overspend on our new stadium, where is this going to end the light at the end of the tunnel is getting dimmer mate


season.

{Ed025's Note - i think we should appeal (again) GB, we are being scapegoated mate and should not just lie down and take it, they intend to make an example of us because we spoke out about the SLY6 and wanted them punished for trying to break up the premier league imo, im just pissed off with it all now..

10 Apr 2024 12:20:47
On top of all that just reading that if 777 get the go ahead to purchase Everton then Dyche will get the push in favour of in their words a more exciting manager, this is all set to run and run mate.

10 Apr 2024 12:44:58
Hmm, looking at their portfolio of clubs, it makes me wonder who their "exciting manager" would be and where from. Not the USA I hope.

10 Apr 2024 12:49:29
Not sure the club can be sued as surely it would have to be the premier league that would be the target as we’ve been punished by the pre her league for our misdemeanours.

Also if clubs start suing each other it’ll never end as any discrepancy one club has with another would then be fair game.

Would imagine it would be similar to the nhs in that if there is a problem with a doctor or nurse it’s the trust they work for that gets sued not the individual. So the individuals in this case the teams are all working u see the umbrella of the premier league and ultimately they are responsible.

10 Apr 2024 21:08:56
As long as they don’t think ‘Ted Lasso’ is a documentary Nick, we may be ok….

10 Apr 2024 01:57:08
Man City have ffp type investigations against them as do Chelsea. Spurs stadium finance was very similar to ours. the big six fined less than £4 million each for wanting to break away. does seem like a two tier system to me ??‍♂️.

No doubt Ed02 will have a withering response about how everything is different but rightly or wrongly it feels like we're being singled out.

UTFT NSNO.

{Ed001's Note - it is totally different, not sure how you can't see it? Spurs was nothing like yours at all. That is just ignorant nonsense or an outright lie. If you don't understand the difference, try educating yourself on why they did not get themselves into financial difficulties to fund a stadium. It is not difficult to do.

As for Man City, they did not submit accounts which showed they had breached FFP regs as Everton did. They have been caught out having falsified accounts and making payments outside of the accounts. But because they are lying through their teeth and denying the charges, the onus is now on the Prem and the FA to prove those charges. The evidence has not been handed to them and guilt admitted like in Everton's case. That is why the case stretches back so many years. It should also be remembered that it was only because of the football leaks hack that any of City's cheating came to light, so the best and clearest evidence of wrongdoing that was obtained there is inadmissible because it was obtained illegally. Then also remember that City's lawyers are doing everything possible to obstruct the process.

Again, in Chelsea's case they did not submit accounts showing their guilt and admit to it. What has happened is that new owners have come in and, in the course of doing an audit on the club's books, found evidence of hidden payments etc that were never declared to the FA and Premier League. They have come forward themselves and delivered the evidence to the league, which has to investigate it and find out exactly how far reaching it is and exactly what it entails. Again totally unlike your case and the Forest one as they do not have it laid out openly what the club did wrong. The investigation into the accounts can take a long time. Would you rather they just slapped a punishment on them without actually knowing what exactly they are punishing them for? Or would you rather they investigated it and found out what exactly went on and then decided on how to proceed?

The questions that should be asked are why the Premier League and FA have not been proactive on FFP, to actually ensure sustainability of clubs as the regulations were intended. This issue with Everton was coming for years, they knew it was there but they sat on their hands and waited until the brown stuff hit the fan rather than getting in there and acting. The regs should not be about punishing clubs like Forest and Everton, though in Chelsea and Man City's case it is different as they have actively cheated to avoid the regs. The regs should be used to stop clubs getting into difficulty and that could have easily been done with a bit of effort. All they had to do was apply a transfer ban earlier and you do not breach FFP by spending more on more players that flop and instead have to turn to the youth system and give players like Simms a shot. Would he have been any worse than Beto? I don't think so. Imo you would have been in a better place with a transfer ban. It didn't even need to be a full block on all incoming transfers. Just tight limits on how much you can spend based on a percentage of sales and limiting incoming players to lower wages than the average within the squad to lower the wage bill. FFP and the FA should be acting to help clubs manage finances, not to punish them for getting it wrong, but actively seeking to guide them so they don't.}

10 Apr 2024 07:30:56
Great insightful response Ed ? Cheers.

Does feel that every man and his dog is against us at the moment albeit of our own doing.

We will be back one day. ??.

{Ed001's Note - every club's fans feel that way, it is because what we see is limited to stuff about our own club. It means we don't realise how others are suffering the same or worse. What is worrying is that FFP was meant to stop exactly what is happening at Everton. The changes to the regulations are an improvement but still they are not going to actually stop it until the FA and Premier League itself take an active part in overseeing clubs and their finances. Annoying as that would be for fans, oversight is needed as humans can't be trusted. Sadly.}

10 Apr 2024 07:58:52
Humans can't be trusted is very true Ed, which throws the corruption theory out there. For the sake of football and sport let's hope they get their acts together and the likes of City and Chelsea care dealt with accordingly but sadly I don't think they will and the timing of the regulation changes will only add fuel to the fire, misinformation and reporting doesn't help.

{Ed001's Note - corruption is rife, especially where there is money involved. The more money, the more corruption there is - and the Premier League is full of money. Luckily the regulation changes do not affect the City and Chelsea charges, they are in trouble based on the laws at the time and no changes to current laws will effect that. Plus they would still be in breach anyway as there is a large portion of the charges related to under the counter payments to top up salaries, hidden from the FFP/PSR calculations.}

10 Apr 2024 08:24:55
Brilliant input ed 001 i think the board have totally ducked it in terms of our outcomes in point deductions but i'm just hoping we can pull together try pick up as many points between now and end season then hopefully if we do stsy up we need a reset and its no overnight fix i think moshiri needs to go do i want 777 no honestly but is there any other alternatives if that deal can't be concluded also are wage bill seriously needs addressing you look at keane gomes alli holgate maupay these all need to be moved on but i honestly can't see many takers on the names i have mentioned as much as we don't like dyche his set up and his tactics and substitutes as much as i would like a change of manager as dan mentioned few days back can we actually afford to sack him and in all honesty what manager would want to come in at this moment of time with an owner who has vanished and seems to me there's no real leadership in the boardroom an no guidance or strategy for us fans who included meself have suffered these last 3.4 years with relegation battles point deductions and lack of vision worrying times ahead i reckon.

{Ed001's Note - it is very worrying. There is one other reason to stick with Dyche I think, though he has shown he is not the long term answer. That is his experience of a similar situation when he took over at Burnley. Howe ran out on them and left them in a real mess, wages too high and the club was on the verge of administration. Dyche came in, sold off all the high earners and yet still managed to grind out the results to get them promoted to the Premier League that season. So he can cope in adversity, even if he has shown he is not the man to get good football out of a team.}

10 Apr 2024 09:33:40
Shame he won’t give our youth a try Ed01. I’m all for getting the high earners like Alli of the book. Imagine if we hadn’t wasted money on him.

{Ed001's Note - that is bizarre how little faith he has in youth players. They will try a little harder than a player who has been signed.}

10 Apr 2024 10:49:18
Ed001 thanks for the info, Very insightful stuff. Also agree it is bizarre how Dyche continues not to trust the youth. Cheers.

09 Apr 2024 11:50:41
Anyone correct me if I am wrong but the next charge looms for approx £85/ £90 million in losses?

I have read in places that because clubs will now be aware of our situation, our bargaining position will be weaker and therefore the value of our most saleable assets will now have to be dropped.

If we don't raise the £90 million, what will happen Eds? Is it just going to be another points deduction? Additionally, considering we got an initial 10pts for being £20 million over, is it reasonable to expect that £90 million would mean around 40 points would be taken off?

Thanks for the info, appreciate it.

{Ed002's Note - Try not to confuse the clubs accounts with the financial statements for P&S/FFP - they are different with such matters as infrastructure costs removed and youth development costs excluded. Everton will need to raise funds by June 30 to balance the books - they can do this through assured sales which is why they may need to sell the likes of Branthwaite, Onana or Calvert-Lewin. A couple of players will return from loan and can also be sold, together with some fringe players. Everton have another eight players who are out of contract in the summer. You are correct that other clubs will be looking to a bargain or two. Someone needs to be looking at the U21 side and seeing who can step up.}

09 Apr 2024 12:35:12
Why do EFC need to balance the books by 30th June, they have already sumbitted the accounts for 22/ 23 so surely the next accounts submitted for 23/ 24 would be by march 31st 2025?

{Ed002's Note - P&S/FFP accounts are different as I explained. They cover the period until the end of the season on June 30.}

09 Apr 2024 12:44:34
I agree, Ed, time to reset, make sure without any doubt that we are within the financial restrictions in the future. If this means that we have to sell, use our u21s and only complete free transfers and loans, then so be it. Our performances couldn’t be much worse anyway. Branthwaite aside, I don’t think our sellable assets are irreplaceable. The likes of Dobbin, Welch, Chermiti etc will have to step up. Perhaps Lee Carsley is the man to work with a young squad?

09 Apr 2024 16:54:17
Well rather than sell our best players why don’t we just sell the naming rights to BMD?

{Ed002's Note - The value of it is tiny in real terms.}

10 Apr 2024 10:54:37
Ed is spot on. We used to be a selling Club. Need to get back to developing our own. Survive this Season sell our assets bring in someone that trusts in our young upcoming. Short term fixes create bigger problems down the line.

08 Apr 2024 16:34:58
One of the suggestions is that Everton should have foreseen or acted sooner after Russia invaded Ukraine. The Premier League continued to benefit financially from TV deals with Russia during this period. A little more hypocrisy to throw on the pile. We overspent by 16 million in the most recent charge, less than our sponsorship income from Usminov, how many clubs could be in profit without their main sponsor?

09 Apr 2024 23:07:07
How many clubs owners are their main sponsor?

08 Apr 2024 16:02:01
We have 4 very winnable games against Forest, Brentford, Luton and Sheff Utd. Win them and we'll be ok I reckon.
The other 3 are against Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal. Only points available realistically is Chelsea

It's still in our hands even with this extra sanction.
UTFT. COYB.

08 Apr 2024 17:38:27
Sorry but after watching that Burnley game I have no confidence we will beat any of them.

08 Apr 2024 22:01:42
Totally agree Woburn. They are all playing better football than us, higher tempo football and can all score. Don't want to sound a doom merchant but we'll need to improve dramatically if we want to win some of those games.
Worries the life out of me.

08 Apr 2024 23:42:48
We might bore them into submission?

09 Apr 2024 09:46:49
If we do manage to stay in the Premier? Dyche will have to go for me!

09 Apr 2024 10:44:01
I’m not a big fan of the football we are currently playing but if we stay in the league then Dyche deserves a medal.

Not sure many managers would be able to do similar with all the stress and uncertainty that has surrounded the club this season as well as having 8pts deducted from the total.

Seen a lot of fans calling for him to go but can’t see it happening .

There’s no money at club and can’t afford another manager being paid off as that’s one of the reasons we’re in such a mess.

If he keeps us up with everything happened this season would imagine club would also find it hard to sack him.

09 Apr 2024 11:44:50
Totally agree GD. If he keeps us up then he deserves a season of hopefully less upheaval but that looks unlikely next season with yet another possible sanction and player exodus.

We got to be realistic and question who in their right mind takes us on in this mess. Keep Dyche until calmer waters, Dyche needs to mix it up a bit next season though, but for now premiership survival to paramount if not pleasant on the eye.

09 Apr 2024 12:27:07
That's the problem Mocker. Dyche can't mix it up and plays the same dross week in week out. Nothing to do with the players. They play as told and he does not use them to their strengths. If he gets new ones in he will look for Dyche type players and we will end up another Burnley. He has to go. We need someone with a youth policy and who can relive what we have. We can't afford the luxury of a transfer binge.

09 Apr 2024 13:19:54
Not championing him to say Nick, just can't see a realistic solution.

Agree he has to mix it up and tbf to him maybe under less chaotic surroundings he may well do, if he fails to do that then yes needs to go, trouble is as you rightly say if we buy it will be his type of players which won't necessarily fit the next managers plans, and the cycle start again.

If we can get a suitable person in in the summer then fair do's but needs doing before the season starts and can't see them queuing for this one Nick.

09 Apr 2024 16:20:33
We have along journey ahead Mocker and, one I wonder if we will complete in the time I have left.

09 Apr 2024 23:09:19
A medal? Guys been there a whole season and still plays crap football.