Everton Banter Archive April 06 2015

 

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06 Apr 2015 19:09:14
Just don't understand fans who come on to defend a player who is not doing as well as EXPERTS say he is by using the rest of the squad as deserving critisism not the player involved. That is a useless example of defending a player. If someone came on and said why he thinks that player is doing better than the critisism is and gives examples, then fine I would consider that as valid opinions to a debate on the players worthiness as a player. To use other players as examples of well they don't get critisism when they do things wrong is nonesense, as to my knowlegdge most of the 1st team this season has been critisised at some stage however none of them have the labels of being World Class, the next Gazza, Rooney, Ballack even Zidane installed on them from experts in the game and even from his Manager. So seriously, if you disagree with critisisms give valid reasons why you disagree not use the rest of the team as a shield for him. It is still my opinion that Barkley has a long way to go to prove himself as even remotely in the same breath as those mentioned, potentially he has it, on the build and technical side of football, but as a midfielder of any control over a game and awareness he has a lot to learn, and 21 should not be the excuse there either, as examples I've used before show. I really want him to be this amazing footballer, but and its a big but, he needs to start learning fast. His one hope is to go to a Chelsea type team where there are midfielders who will protect him and give him the space to learn his craft, it won't happen at Everton.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

{Ed025's Note - a fair take on things there howie, good post mate..

06 Apr 2015 19:46:28
I say forget what the experts say, Howie, we can only call what we witness ourselves with our own eyes. The one thing everybody seems to agree on in the whole Ross debate is that he has got a great deal of potential. But that potential needs to be realised before we judge how good he really is. Labelling him the next Rooney, Gerrard etc etc is only putting more pressure on him.
I have come out and used other players as examples because I feel it is valid and by no means was it used as a shield to protect him. The point is that he gets a lot more grief from sections of the crowd in comparison to others who are also having bad games, I hear that with my own ears at the ground. You could look it another way, should he receive more grief for bad performances than other players just because experts dub him the new.?

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{Ed025's Note - fair point spud..

06 Apr 2015 20:22:33
I have to say it stil sounds like a shield to me but accept its your opinion. However I think he gets less critisism than Ossie who hardly puts a foot wrong, Barry has had umerciful critisism this season as has Howard. So I don't think he gets a lot of stuff thrown at him other than we are guided by these so called experts the Manager being one, to expect more of him and maybe rightly so given his attributes and potential. So I don't see it as critisism really but expectancy of what we are told about him.

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06 Apr 2015 20:56:02
I was pointing out what I had said involving other players further down this page, just in case your post included myself and my views. Yes, the likes of Barry and Howard get their fair share of stick but I still believe Ross is getting more. He is a victim on two counts. First being how well he played last season, he set the bar and hasn't reached anywhere near that level. Secondly, of his managers wisdom of playing him in positions that he should never play in, left wing for example.
As I said in my first reply, forget what these people say, they should have no bearing on your own judgement. There will be 'the new Ross' label getting thrown at someone else soon enough and they will move on.

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06 Apr 2015 21:05:36
Agreed on most of your points, not sure about the many positions thing though when you are meant to have the talent he has and he himself thinks he should be a Striker!

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{Ed025's Note - i think spud has a valid point howie, he has played in some strange positions mate..

06 Apr 2015 22:56:13
Don't remember Barkley ever saying he was "world class" that's just the opinion of others mate. He's a good player in an average team. A team where senior players are letting the side down. I remember when you where all calling for him to play in the World Cup. Now your all shouting for Garbutt to play instead of Baines, give it six months and you'll be slagging him off. Before you slag off the young players look at yourselves. Bloody supporters change with the wind. Take a leaf out of Palace supporters, and SUPPORT your team.

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06 Apr 2015 23:06:28
I think further up the field the better as he's not much of a tackler!

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07 Apr 2015 08:49:10
What's with all the negative posts about Barclay.The kid is trying to find his feet in the pro game he showed last season he has the ability to go far . To start getting on his back is ridiculous he is only in his second season in the prem and this year has played in a team that has lacked confidence in itself and for a manager who doesn't know were or how to play him .All of this is hindering him he needs to be told his best position be it Cm or behind the striker and what is expected of him in that position if that means staying spare and not tracking back so be it if you want to be a box to box mid then you have to play him there have faith in him and give him a run in the team in his best position .The lads ability should not be in question yes he has been hyped up but that comes with being a good footballer in your own country he can not do anything about that he has never come out and said iam the next gazza .Also for people to say he carnt pass or has no through ball must be watching another player yes his final ball when running full belt at defenders could be better but iam sure the lad knows this himself and will be working on it his short game around the box and opening of play to the wings when tight is good he can shoot with both feet has good pace and strength .I believe Ross will emerge as a top player I just hope people give him a chance .To see a young scouser who wants to play for the club getting abuse from his own is not good he comes across as a good lad (no saying no to a 100 grand a wk from him )we should really get behind him because if he does go to city or Chelsea and goes on to be the player his fellow pros and England managers expect it will be to Evertons loss .

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07 Apr 2015 20:39:48
Am with you on that Am8. For me he isn't a box to box midfielder that is Mccarthy and he shouldn't be running around chasing the ball, he has the ability to be our out ball along with Lukaku to put the opposition on the backfoot when we counter. Another poster rightly put it when stating you don't see Messi running back once possession is lost and that was the point Gullit was making on MOTD. Yes he frustrates but that's maybe trying to hard because he wants to silence the boo boys and doubters. Some sections of the crowd expect all players to chase after the ball once they lose it ala the Moyes days, modern day football has evolved and moved on from this and depending on your position that is were you press for the ball. I don't want to see Barkley running back 60 yards and then being knackered doing so I want to see him holding his position waiting for the ball winners to release him. Surely that's why we play with 2 ball winners in Barry and Mccarthy? Anyways I have gone on a bit but just wanted to air my views on the Barkley situation, he is a number 10 for me.

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06 Apr 2015 18:42:37
. had a bad dream last night. dreamt that Bobby got sacked in the summer & we ended up with Brenda Rodgers as a replacement after he gets sacked by the dark side!!

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{Ed025's Note - stop eating cheese late at night zacki mate..

07 Apr 2015 16:06:30
Zackiii, and stay off the RED wine.

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08 Apr 2015 11:32:23
. think I'll stick to the blue Stilton guys. lol

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06 Apr 2015 16:49:48
Remember when we were linked with Malky McKay?

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06 Apr 2015 17:28:42
Yeah and steve mclaran or my favourite, mark hughes lol

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06 Apr 2015 16:46:10
I know there a few on here who want RM out in the summer. With that in mind who do you think would be a good replacement?

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06 Apr 2015 17:54:17
I said it earlier in the season around christmas time that I would have had a punt on Steve Mclaren.

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06 Apr 2015 19:44:21
Bobby will still be with us next season? If not the only manager I would like is Frank de Boer from Ajax.

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06 Apr 2015 20:11:36
Slaven Bilic or De Boar

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06 Apr 2015 21:59:10
Bilic & de boer good shouts

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{Ed025's Note - any of them would be better than..de bore we have at the moment.. :)

07 Apr 2015 10:14:07
Bilic, De Boer, Klinsmann, Eddie Howe or Sean Dyche

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07 Apr 2015 12:58:51
Leon Osman

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07 Apr 2015 12:59:02
Phil Neville

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07 Apr 2015 16:09:49
we had a "punt" on Mr.Bean,& look were that as got us.

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06 Apr 2015 13:06:54
Well now we know. Good on Barry to let us know why he's not had a good Season, its all Martinez and injuries in the teams fault. As he says The Manager knows he's played me far more than he would have wanted this Season. There we are in a nutshell, no more needs to be said. Sorry for all the flak Gareth, not your fault.!!!!!

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06 Apr 2015 15:37:10
He has played more than we wanted, about 35 games too many!

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06 Apr 2015 19:17:04
Wonder what Mo Besic thinks about that?

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06 Apr 2015 12:28:36
Just watching the Watford game on TV and heard Z-Cars being played when the teams are walking out. Can anyone tell me why they are playing our song

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06 Apr 2015 12:53:36
They have been playing it for years at Watford

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06 Apr 2015 13:29:30
not before us

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06 Apr 2015 05:20:42
Something was mentioned on motd by gullit concerning ross barkley, he said he wastes too much energy tracking back. A few things came to mind, first of all, what rubbish and second of all, he's 21!. If at the age of 21, supposedly your best position is DRIVING THE TEAM FORWARD THROUGH THE MIDDLE and you get tired after 2 tackles in the first 30 minutes? Why are you a proffessional footballer?. Now of course I want ross to be amazing, but he wont, its as simple as that, he doesn't have any common sense, he goes past 1 and can go left and continue the run or go right and try to take on FIVE southampton players, so he goes right, well done. What seperates him also is he will beat someone and immediately want to find someone else to beat, great players see the whole pitch and know what to do. Another thing that irked me is evertonians saying 'if he gets past the stage where all he wants to do is beat people then he can be world class', um lads? He cannot pass!. The lad, has no through ball, he runs and will either run and lose it or shoot from 50 yards, or, even worse, will stand still messing about with the ball for 30 seconds acting all elegant but then loses it. Another thing is despite being nearly 6 foot 3! He is beyond awful in the air, lukaku gets ridiculed for it, why not ross?. But I do think one of the most important things is he has to learn when enough is enough and just get rid of the ball, be it a through ball, cross or even a simple pass. Casing point, aiden mcgeady, if at the age of 29 you still just want to try and humiliate the full back for as long as possible until you lose it, you're usless to the team. I know this seems like i'm having a go for the sake of having a go but he is a LONG way from being a decent player, he is overhyped (overrated for younger players), I don't think its reached adnan januzaj levels yet but its getting there. I want him to make it I do, i'm not going to do a degsy and hope he fails so I can come back on here all smug and go 'told you so' (ouch) but I just think its really unlikely he will make it.

Believable3 Unbelievable3

06 Apr 2015 10:43:00
Think he needs a rest this summer and then improve his overall game next season, he does lack passing ability, its all running and shooting at present, a bit of a one trick pony, albeit a talented one!

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06 Apr 2015 13:01:33
Well said Swan, everything I keep telling everyone, £50 mil is a Joke surely. Look like Swan I really want him to be this person everyone says he is but alas all the signs are he just hasn't got a football brain. I've said it to him personally, all the great midfielders and I won't waste my time naming them all, but they all had one thing to go with their amazing talents and that is devilment, you got to want the ball, get it back if you lose it, and make sure you let the opposition know you can't have it easily. He lacks that nasty streak. And if I hear the he's only 21 bit again!! Jeez Alan Ball won the World Cup at 21 and was MOTM, Stevie G, was running the midfield at 21, seriously if he's as good as all these experts are saying, a mix og Gazza, Rooney, Ballack and so on, at 21 he should be at Real Madrid by now!! So let's stop this nonesense about him and see if he can improve, because he's a long way to go yet, and Ossie is proving it now by outshining him by far as a midfielder. He needs to watch Ossie does, he might lose the ball, have no pace and his engine goes by the 60th minute but he will have contributed to the team in a positive way. Keeping the ball moving, linking play between defense n attack, picking up lose ends and playing in the wide men as a out ball, gets on the end of attacks too. Watch n learn Ross because youve a lot of learning to do yet. Good luck.

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06 Apr 2015 15:00:23
I'll never agree with you on Barkley, Swan. He had one of his better games on Saturday, especially in the first half, along with Barry and Howard. Yes he gave the ball away a couple of times but that is to be expected and can be levelled at a few players in any given game. It was good to see him track back and tackle for a change though. There were times on saturday when he was given the ball when he had 3 players surrounding him, what is he meant to do? It's the same old story with some our fans, we have a good young(ish) player in the squad but we are hell bent on crucifying him when he makes a mistake. Is it because he is a local lad? Do we expect more because of where he is from? Stones, for example, never gets a rough ride from yourself yet there are plenty of games, since he broke through, where he has cost us goals with silly mistakes. To say he can't pass is crazy, although he needs to get his head up a bit but that will come with experience. I've witnessed him myself play good balls through to team mates. He is not the problem, if you want to drone on about players then the likes of Kone, Alcaraz, Robles (yes he might have had 3 decent games but he is not the answer for gk) and Michael Flatley doing his river dance on the wing. In fact, let's spin it around. There are only probably 3 players that come out with any credit from this horrendous season. Naismith, Besic and Jags (more so 2nd half of the season) are the only players that have been consistent. The team has struggled, the manager has struggled, the fans have suffered. It is really only his second season in the first team, last year was good and he played well, along with the rest of them. This year he hasn't hit anywhere near top form but neither has the rest of the squad. That needs to be taken into consideration when he is getting ripped apart by sections of the crowd.

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{Ed025's Note - fair points there spud..

06 Apr 2015 15:53:02
I totally agree with Gullet but it depends on what he is on the pitch to do.

If he is playing the Messi role then walking about the pitch inbetween the mid and def is what he should be doing when he hasn't got the ball. That way he can see what is going on and exploit the attacking areas when he does get it. Maradona, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo both, Ronaldinho and even Hazard all do/did the same thing.

I think the Messi role would be good for him to learn and if you watch messi, for 75 minites all he does is walk around the pitch.

Some of us have been moyesified and believe a good player isn't a good player unless he has run his legs off and only has stumps left in 90 minutes.

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06 Apr 2015 16:36:57
Barclay will go to a top club and then watch him flourish. Disgracefully treated by some of our so called fans. I said 2 years ago he will go for £60 mill and I stand by that. City would suit him down to the ground imo.if they win alligator all which is likely it may even be this summer. I hope he stays of course at least for a couple more seasons.

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06 Apr 2015 17:27:41
I think the difference is no one is building kone, alcaraz and joel to be amazing. Concerning stones, how many good games has he had? He shows he can do the attacking side just As well as the defending, he's also showed a real maturity and has shown development since we first saw him, unlike ross. What makes stones so good is his willingness to lead the team, he will drive us forward when ross wont, he also shows leadership qualities, again unlike ross. Ste I also don't see how city suits him? he's never going to be good enough to replace silva or yaya toure. Wanting him to improve is not treating him disgracefully.

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06 Apr 2015 18:43:38
Maybe not building them up but them 3 seem to have either cost us points or do not possess half the talent that Ross does. I agree, it needs to be harnessed properly but he also needs to be put in one position and keep him there. Sticking him on the wing, for example, is pretty stupid, especially when we have players more suited to that role. Stones, bar one or two games, has had the luxury of playing in his rightful position so, yes, he has shown signs of development but I'd expect that tbh. He's getting to learn his position game in game out. The same can't be said for Ross. This season is almost over but next year I expect RB to be given a proper role in the team. Say behind the striker as an example. If he has a bad game then we have others that can come in and do a job. Competition for your place should drive him on, unlike the current position whereas he plays crap on the wing so next game we'll move him centrally, this way does him more harm than good. Time will tell I suppose.
I know where Ste is coming from here. I've heard some awful shouts from the crowd this season, embarrassing really. Ross is nowhere near the level of silva or yaya but not many in the world are. If he can get anywhere near their level then we will either be happy he's in our team or counting the pounds we receive in transfer fees!

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06 Apr 2015 19:56:21
Swan, we need to get behind Ross & Rom & remember these are 2 young lads making there way in the game. The moans & jeers aimed at them at times is embarrassing. Our away support is fantastic but wish I could say the same when at Goodson. It's been a poor season let's just hope things improve on the summer

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{Ed025's Note - i know how you feel ste, but this sort of thing happens at all clubs mate just visit the reds site and see, im afraid its the fickleness of the modern day fan who demands immediate success..

06 Apr 2015 23:19:57
The problem is what certain fans are used to. We have been used to every player giving 100%- 100% of the time.

The clubs at the top of the league and in Europe understand a little more what these attacking midfielders are about.

They don't track back, they don't give 100% and are anonymous for most of the game. But whatt they do, do, is create a few moments of magic that creates a goal or a chance out of nothing.

Barkley gets screamed at for trying those passes that 1 in 5 come off. None of the others has the brain to even think of it never mind the balls. Messi does the same and believe it or not gets the same treatment at barca but when it comes off he is lauded as the saviour just like Barkley against Newcastle, QPR, Man City.

Collymore was doing it the other night when he was playing for England. What he didn't slate though was the fact Henderson, Delph and Jones gave the ball away 10 times more and in worse positions. Why? Because they give 100%! Absolute tool.

Barkley is a quality player. Some of us just don't know what one is.

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{Ed025's Note - luxury players look good in teams that are winning john, but when your side are struggling they stick out like a sore thumb mate..

07 Apr 2015 12:00:39
Don't forget Ross had a triple leg break at 15 and he lost nearly 2 years of his development. He still runs when he should pass and vice versa, like a lot of young players his decision making needs to improve. It'll come but maybe not for a year or so - then what a player he will be.

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07 Apr 2015 09:32:02
Exactly ed why they succeed and become great players at top clubs. They win most of the time. Barkley got praised last season because were winning. Now we feel he is a luxury player.

When he does go we will regret it and probably call him for everything because he left us. I won't blame him when he does.

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{Ed025's Note - its a tough call john, damned if he goes, damned if he does,nt, i am desperate for him to do well, but maybe another club will get the best out of him because at the moment he looks lost with us mate..

07 Apr 2015 17:26:00
Still now they are all talking about Kane it will let up on Ross, until Kane starts making mistakes!

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07 Apr 2015 20:33:22
Which will hopefully be soon wakka as kane really annoys me

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