Everton Banter Archive March 29 2018

 

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Is there more to Professional Football than kicking a ball?

29 Mar 2018 20:36:38
{Ed's Note - MK Scouser has posted a new article entitled, Is there more to Professional Football than kicking a ball?

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29 Mar 2018 19:13:36
Just a thought. If and I guess it's a big if. But if we go all out for Fonseca and land him. Where does that leave Duncan Ferguson. Managers bring their own staff and being Fonseca is attacking minded surely he going to want his man from Shaktar. So could we be losing Fergy?

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30 Mar 2018 07:49:17
Maybe it is time for a clear out. I'd like him to stick around in some capacity but if whoever comes in doesn't want him then so be it.

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30 Mar 2018 10:00:38
With the exception of Unsworth, this 'jobs for the boys' mentality is one of the reasons we are in this situation. I agree with what Smit said above.

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30 Mar 2018 11:20:24
Generally the boot room boys thing is historically accurate but I'm sure Rhino and Disorderly are both respected throughout the game.

I'm sure Dunc and his love of the club would be a big plus to any coaching team. But if he doesn't fit, then he should go.

Not sure what Oxford were patting about for a few weeks back. I thought Rhino would have been tempted and it would have been a good fit. Obviously he's starting to think that way, I'd not be surprised if he finds a no1 job this summer.

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30 Mar 2018 11:27:41
Totally agree it's great in the sense that it's nice to look after our old players but what do they bring to the club.
I loved Ferguson when he played but hrs been here for a while what does he being I feel the club needs a proper shakedown and restructure from top to bottom and no matter who u are or what u achieved at the club it should only be gauged on what they bring now and what they will bring going forwards and if it's not enough to warrant a role in the club so be it and it's time to say goodbye it's harsh and not nice but if we are to progress and move forward we need to be more ruthless and more professional yes it's clinical yes it's cold but the hard cold facts are sentiment has no place in top level football unfortunately and that's the decisions the club need to make.

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30 Mar 2018 13:13:26
Get rid of all the jobs for the boys staff,

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30 Mar 2018 17:37:32
Brian Kidd is still a coach at city and Pat Rice was at Arsenal for years there's also the other lots "Boot Room" too there should always be a past player on the coaching team otherwise who shows the other Ayers what it means to where our glorious shirt and play for our beloved blues.

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30 Mar 2018 18:35:35
I can see that point but would u say that is what Ferguson brings he's been there for the end of martinez the whole of koeman unsworth and now allardyce and I'd say it's the exact reason u say we need an ex player involved that has been so missing from the squad.

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30 Mar 2018 20:23:50
He was with them all James, but that's telling me he could be the problem, (bully)

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30 Mar 2018 21:20:50
The last time we won a trophy it was with a former player as manager.

As for Dunc. He ain't doing such a bad job. Turns Lukaku into a 90mil striker and as Tosun has just confessed got him up to speed after having a poor start. Seems to be doing something right.

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31 Mar 2018 00:00:39
I reckon whoever tells big Dunc he hasn't got a job at Everton is a brave man or absolutely ignorant to us . in love with the fella!

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31 Mar 2018 08:38:14
Big Dunc did not make Lukaku a £90m striker. He hasn't improved in the air or with his back to goal. For me Unsworth is the only old boy with any merit. The one that baffles me most is Jeffers tbh.

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31 Mar 2018 09:01:22
What has his ability in the air or back to goal got to do with it? He was bought for 28 mil and sold for 90. Therefore, turned into a 90mil striker who was the second highest scorer in the league!

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31 Mar 2018 16:04:54
Never mind Lukaku he's the past unless he has major change of mind. I think we should be more interested in what the coaching staff can do with Calvert-Lewin has all the necessary attributes to be top forward just needs to bulk up a bit to keep hold of the ball more.

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29 Mar 2018 16:53:26
I my be paranoid, but I smell a rat, a big fat jealous kopit rat, trying to misuse the political process to undermine the clubs deal with the local authority.
As stated, many times, this deal will not cost local tax payer one penny, indeed in tne long run, it will benifit the whole area by many millions, both directly, and by way of spin off bringing in private sector invetment, jobs and homes, this is a win win deal, and those who seek to stop it, one can only wonder at their motives.

Believable6 Unbelievable0

30 Mar 2018 17:27:23
jcwblue, correct me if i'm wrong but read in the echo that Everton will pay £6-7 million interest on the finance deal with Liverpool Council this over 25 yeas equals £175m approx is that correct? now where i can see the deal being rejected by the whole council is that £6-7 million is pittance compared to the City of Liverpool Annual budget, then when someone asks what happens to the original £280 million loan who pays that back, it could all go texts up if you take out a loan on a property say, you pay back the debt plus interest over the loan period you get my drift, maybe you can clarify that point for me, i'd be grateful for your insight, because you seem to have your head around this.

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30 Mar 2018 21:17:30
Jcw, you could be right, have a look at this.

Rejected petition
Block Everton Football Club From Building A New Ground On Bramley Moore

We call on people of the UK to sign the petition and stop Everton Football Club building a new ground on a heritage site. This is absurd and people of LFC/ Residents feel it unjustified. We hope the good people of the UK and the FA see sense and stop this before it happens. #YNWA

More details
As football fans and concerned residents in and around the area of Bramley Moore Docks, myself and people of the Anfield area have been are very concerned about traffic issues if the ground goes ahead on this heritage site. BM is a special place as our kids normally like to play in and around the area, people walking their dogs as well as kite flying lessons. We have sent numerous letters to the FA asking them to support our concerns and hopefully have EFC docked points in the coming seasons.

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30 Mar 2018 21:29:26
The council get the loan at a lower rate than Everton, and in return they get 7 million a year in interest from Everton. Everton pay off the loan. It may be a pittance but it is 7 million more a year for doing nothing more than being the guarantor for Everton.
The other option is Everton get the Loan, the council get nothing and we pay more in interest.

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31 Mar 2018 12:02:44
What grinds me is it was the council that put purchase orders on all them houses for the kopites to build there stand. They call us bitter, that lot are obsessed about us and what we do to the point they now care about an abandoned dock and a river front non of them see.

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01 Apr 2018 14:51:10
If Moshiri could get fit enough we should play him as a winger, because he's running rings around Liverpool council.

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29 Mar 2018 12:12:29
Just heard sad news Mr Dennehy's New York has closed, it was the best EFC supporters bar I ever visited on my travels. Good luck to all the fantastic staff that worked there.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

29 Mar 2018 12:11:45
Just been reading about the payoffs these Football managers get, £10 million for Martinez and now 16 months left on Koemans contract that we have to pay due to the Dutch FA only having to pay 10% of his wage as the Dutch National Manager, let's hope Big Sam doesn't get a hefty payoff like this if he goes in the summer, hard life being a football manager.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

29 Mar 2018 12:22:53
We designed the contracts so it's down to the club to pay up.
Don't blame the Dutch.
Another area where the board need to sharpen up.

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29 Mar 2018 12:48:53
You are right there mate, amazed they would ever set up a contract like that.

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29 Mar 2018 18:57:46
Wish I had a contract like that at work 😂.

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29 Mar 2018 09:38:22
Having been an advocat of Mr Alardyce's short term appointment (more or less safe now if not quite mathematically) , I have to take issue with Mr Shakespear and comments on Davies. The lad may be keen to learn as Mr Shakespear says but in my opinion he has not improved under the Alardyce Team, at best he has stood still (metaphorical) , witness his headless chicken runs.

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29 Mar 2018 10:47:30
ducksflysouth, more second season syndrome for me as even before this current manager came in he was struggling we have to remember he is a young kid and still learning his trade.

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29 Mar 2018 12:41:41
Spot on Bluey79, there’s a player in Davies that’s for sure, could well be second season syndrome but he hasn’t been the player he was last season accept for a few games.

I have no doubt he will recapture his previous form but spot on it was well before Sam came, his decision making and form has dipped.

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29 Mar 2018 13:00:02
It must be difficult to learn your trade in that atmosphere, with an unsettled and underperforming team, which you are in and out of constantly. Davies hasn't been great but neither have virtually everyone else in the squad. I feel sorry for the lad spending half the season running round trying to cover ground that others who are less mobile/ can't be arsed are leaving wide open. One thing that he can't be accused of is not trying. He always wants the ball, which is admirable. Hopefully after this season is over the club gets some stability and he can develop into the quality player that we know he can be.

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29 Mar 2018 18:03:36
Yeah he's off but he's a kid. His body doesn't scream athlete either. He's going to have to work a bit on that I think. He clearly wasn't as fit as he should have been at times earlier in the season.

He will have gained great maturity for all the atmosphere and disappointments. This season will still be very valuable to his future.

Top player for me and one of the things BS has done right. (Can't believe I've said that but I think it's true) he has been constantly starting even when he's struggled. From a man management angle, the lad must be feeling some love.

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29 Mar 2018 18:31:19
It's a tricky one. On the one hand, Allardyce has stuck with him which is a good thing but he also stuck with Schneiderlin and that didn't go so well.
I'm hoping he is in the team this weekend along with Rooney in Ganas position. If I see Schneiderlin on the team sheet I don't think I could cope.

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29 Mar 2018 07:05:29
I've just read that we're still paying 90% of Koeman's wages. Please tell me that doesn't mean we're doing something similar for Martinez? If we punt Sam in the summer then we'll be paying the wages of one manager at the club in his replacement, two international managers and a retired pensioner.

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{Ed025's Note - i dont know how it works windsor, i just know we seem to be getting ripped off mate..

29 Mar 2018 07:37:43
The board and Moshiri are all adults! They must have agreed the contracts. this is one of my points about hiring and firing a succession of managers. What if the next one struggles? I tend to agree with Ed002 that Unsworth seemed to have turned things around and a lot was to do with the return of Baines and Coleman. We have looked a different team since.

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29 Mar 2018 09:42:23
Agree with that. Unsworth knows the setup inside out. That first win (with Sam in the stands) was Unsworths, we could quite easily have gone on the same run and achieved relative safety. Our return since that run has been near relegation status.

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29 Mar 2018 10:04:33
That's what contracts are for, the board know the situation if they are to terminate one early, its what goes on everywhere another sign of the rising amount of money in the game and how easily it is abused!
On another point I do not believe Unsworth had turned things around Degsy he was out of his depth in the job and it showed. Baines and Coleman did not return until a while after Sam started.
This is why as Ed002 says, the board need to take good advice before the next appointment is made, until then Allardyce will continue, and he may get the next pay off!

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29 Mar 2018 10:28:32
Respect your opinion wakka57. Both comments Degs and mine didn't say Unsworth had turned the Squad around. Degs said appeared to have done and mine said who is to say Unsy would not have gone on the same run as Sam after that first win (Unsworths) . If you look at Sam's run since that initial burst, it has been equivalent to Koeman's prior to his sacking. It is only since Coleman and Baines have come back that we have looked a Team again and that likely would have happened under Unsworth.

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29 Mar 2018 11:06:44
I understand what you are saying dfs, it was my personal opinion that I didn't think even as an old club player he could, I think he needs to learn the job first perhaps in the lower leagues, which is not easy as stubsy has found out.
These days it is not an easy fix when things are broken, Everton FC need some stability and to get on a run of good results which breeds confidence no matter who the Manager is.

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29 Mar 2018 12:32:39
I would be very surprised if we are indeed paying as high as 90%, I would suggest we are making his wages up to what he was on whilst at Everton.

Until a settlement fee is actually agreed upon then I would say we would be obliged to make sure he does not lose out financially, so if he gained employment that paid half of hiw wage then it would be up to us to pay the other 50% until it went to arbitration or court.

Paying out a compensation package is not as easy as just paying him his wages up until the end of his contract, because if he then got a job does he pay back the extra that we have paid him. He may well have a clause in his contract that states should he be sacked before the ending of his second season, then we pay him his full wages, or a percentage. The fact that he now has another job will be to our benefit in the long run as we can now say his reputation has not been that badly damaged due to the fact he is a manager of a national side.

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29 Mar 2018 12:54:08
I would take a good look at Unsworths games in charge, first three were away fixtures, others in an almost dead rubber Europa league, after exciting Europe, we had a decent fixture run the first being a good home win, then he was axed before the following fixtures and Sam got those winnable games, too many listened to the pe teacher comments, I have no doubt, had we left Unsworth in charge for those fixtures, we would have got the same results or better, you cannot knock Unsworth for mixing youth with experiance in those later Europa games, one of our few successes this season for me was unsworths inclusion of Beningame, ow nowhere to be seen, so yes for a short while Unsworth was out of his death with the squad he had all out of confidence, and his unlucky timing of the fixtures he had to come into.

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29 Mar 2018 13:08:16
My original point was about how we negotiate managerial contracts. I work in a sales environment which is target orientated. If I don’t hit expected performance levels over a certain period without signs of improvement I lost my job - no payoff, no ongoing payments. That includes the performance of the ttwo and I recruit, train and manage. I cannot understand how managerial contracts in football are any different. Surely performance expectations are set when the contract is signed and if they are not met you have breached your contract. If via a performance management programme over a pre-defined period does not rectify that performance then surely you just lose your job?

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29 Mar 2018 13:19:02
I thought this thread was about paying RK.

Just my luck to be wrong.

As I have excluded myself from SA posts I shall step away from this one.

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29 Mar 2018 14:01:53
Calm down Grumpy people are just having a conversation.

And WIndsor, I think the main difference between your sales job and a prem manager is with respect, there are probably a hundred other people in your area that are capable and willing to do your job.

When we look for a new manager if we tried to include performance related targets they would just refuse. And we would be stuck looking for someone else. There are not a lot of managers out there that we want and even less who would want to come here. The managers know this and have us by the balls.

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29 Mar 2018 14:09:11
It is about ronnies contract, Sam was brought in due to the fact we could be paying a similar payout, should we relieve Sam in the Summer and ties in with a payout, part of the Unsworth was brought in, in regards to the payout Sam will get and if we could have saved on this, had we been a bit more patient with Unsworth before bringing someone in, in the Summer.

I know where you are coming from Grumpy, but with a similar payout expected with Sam, it ties in with payouts we have made with our last three full time managers.

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29 Mar 2018 14:16:07
Windsor, I get what you’re saying but I’m sure if you had a very good representative negotiating your employment terms then less would be expected of you with more in return. It’s the agents that are in charge here not the employers.

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29 Mar 2018 18:40:41
Forget about the money guys. Koeman getting us into Europe probably paid for his 3 years wages anyway.
The powers that be will have included the funds for every eventuality.
Big Sam's unexpected wages are on a par with the LB we didn't sign.

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Review Of The Day 29th March 2018

29 Mar 2018 06:23:57
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 29th March 2018

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