Everton Banter Archive June 27 2014

 

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27 Jun 2014 18:58:09
I know he is young and talented but 30m for shaw a left back is crazy how much does that make Barkley worth then boys

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About 15 given his age

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Sorry thought you wrote Baines. Ross is 40-50 in today's market

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Ross Barkley is a poor version of a young wayne rooney but there is a hefty price tag for young english players if Barkley was Spanish he'd be worth ten million tops

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A poor version of Wayne Rooney guess your a Man U fan then because no one else thinks that

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Actually I am Blue through and through, but I know where Bean is coming from. Although there are similarities between Rooney's and Barkley's progress, I do believe that Rooney's progress was more explosive. I suppose the comment of a "poor version" is a bit dramatic, but Rooney seemed to secure a starting place regularly at a younger age and also scored many more goals in his first breakthrough season. There is a lot of rubbish written about Moyes holding back Barkley, but when Moyes blooded Rooney, he brought him in at a far faster rate than Barkley. I believe that was because Rooney was more developed for his age. I guess Barkley's leg break has curtailed his development somewhat and in a years time we will see the real Barkley. Whether he will be at Rooney's standard we will have to wait and see.

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Just looked up the stats. Rooney had played 67 games and scored 15 goals by 18 years old. Barkley is nowhere near that. Promising? Yes! Talented? Yes! As good a start as Rooney? No way.

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Why is he being compared to Rooney barkley is technically better won't score the goals he does but I think he is better he reminds me of Zidane if anyone saw Zidane play barkley has shades of him

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{Ed025's Note - yeah..but he does,nt throw the head in as much metz.. :)

Comparing rooneys stats to barkleys in terms of goals scored is ridiculous Rooney is a striker Barkley is an attacking midfielder but as it happens his stats compare well to Rooney if you take out the year and a bit he had put due to injury he is effectively (in terms of development) 18 and a half and he has 73 career appearances including loans 23 of which were as a sun and he has scored 11 goals. Not bad for a mid

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Yes Rooney secured a starting place much earlier but you have to remember he was playing in a much poorer Everton team. I think he would have broken into this team around 18 not 16. Still he does edge Barkley.

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Nobody ever mentions that Ross had a career threatening double leg break. Ross' first season in a blue shirt was as impressive as Rooneys considering the quality of opposition and team mates competing with him.
Because if his injury his football age is essentially just turned 18.
Ross has more potential and a better work ethic than Ronney I have no doubts he will (not in goals scored as it is different positions) surpass ronney in terms of stature in the game

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I think the main thing to mention here is the over developed maturity of Rooney at a young age, is there another so called world class player being told he's past it at 28 by a lot of his past team mates to boot, Rooney hasn't beat a man since 06 Barkley walks past poeple for fun

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I did mention the leg break and I do agree with Mikedeblue re Rooney's weird rapid development. I also note that Swan has stopped replying to my posts. Come on Swan. it's only a bit of banter. Send me a good argument. We haven't had one for a while.

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Yes he may be past his best but I reckon when when Ross Barkley is 28 He wouldn't have achieved as much as what rooney did. rooney was a game changer for England at 18years of age and a world class talent Barkley on the other hand is just a average young player with big price tag because he's english

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I understand where you are coming from Bean, but let's not judge Barkley before he has had a couple of seasons to prove himself. Thre must be something special about him because just about every club in Europe would like him.

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No English player has achieved anything with the national team so I guess your talking about what he has done with the manes, which ever way you want to justify paying 300k to an average player you can but to say that Barkley want achieve nothin is just a plain old guess, good to see you agree Rooneys best days were 10 years ago

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29 Jun 2014 18:56:52
whilst I think every english talent is overrated, barkley, shaw, sterling and the other one, what's his name? dives a lot, always injured, scared of people and can't pass forwards, his second name is wheelchair or something? anyway I digress, rooney, for me shouldn't of been on the plane to brazil, I don't get what he does anymore tbh, if barkley can improve his final ball and decision making, he could be whatever he wants, he could be better than rooney and also last a lot longer, you mentioned if he was spanish he would be worth 10m tops? I can't think of any spanish kid that is the size of ross, as fast, as strong and as 2 footed, if rooney was spanish he would be playing for mallorca and no one would of heard of him because he hasn't done anything since he was a kid, he works hard and passes it to the winger, you took about doing as much in the game, well rooney moved to a team winning the league every season, if ross decides to stay for a while, which he will then that shows there is still some sense left in football and its not all about egos and money, whatever happens in barkleys career i'm sure he will go down as something more than an average spanish wannabe who is worth 10m

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Swan, I can't believe some of what you write at times. Rooney is still only 28 and I agree had a poor season by his standards. Yes he went into a winning team, but he and Van Persie have kept Utd winning trophies on their own. The rest of that Utd team is now ordinary. That is why I say he and Van Persie kept them afloat. Rooney had a poor season and Van Persie missed half of it. With regards to peoples comments that he is past it.lets wait and see when Utd buy some better players and offload the likes of Cleverly. FYI Rooney stats are: 158 goals in 307 games. Not bad for someone who is past it. That is in 10 years and includes his terrible last season. Remember also that for Utd, Rooney plays more of a midfield no 10 role and is often seen as last man back. Barkley has 10 in 64 if you include his loan spells at Leeds and Sheffield Weds. He is also 20 years old, so needs to score 148 in 8 years to catch Rooney up. I am afraid that I still see Rooney as a special talent who is going through a bad patch. Not bad. I don't remember too many other bad patches by him. I wonder if that's why they are prepared to pay him 300k a week? Much as I love Ross Barkley and understand his injury problem, I don't think he has proved anything yet. He shows he has the potential yes, but only time will tell if he can produce the longevity of goals, assists and general world class performances (past) of Rooney. And at 28 I don't think he is quite past it.

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Barkley shows promise and in this mad market he could be worth 40 mil. If he does not make his potential next season it could go down to 15 mil. a business decision would be to sell him now and use the money on 3 top players to bolster games in Europe.

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27 Jun 2014 18:47:08
Soccer sauce on twitter are saying that we have no intrest in signing jack rodwell but we are intrested in Tom clevery and we want cristian Benteke from villa

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27 Jun 2014 17:16:09
I see Adam Llalana is currently having a medical with the dark side & about to sign for them. I guess once again our financial frailties are shown up once again here as we couldn't afford him with the other targets we have in mind. great shame this, would of been a great signing for us + he was a boyhood Everton fan too apparently. let's hope the rat gets shipped out too Barcelona pretty quickly or else there attacking line up next season admittedly looks pretty scary!

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27 Jun 2014 18:18:03
But with the likes of Johnson and agger in defence, I can't see them being much of a challenger for the title. Best form of attack is a solid defence.

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27 Jun 2014 15:13:41
So David Moyes is linked to the manager's position at Galatasaray - there must be a "turkey voting for Christmas" gag in there somewhere, but I can't quite work one out. ;-)

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Sid. The first thing is the Turks don't celebrate Xmas

and while he's there it's a sure bet to continue ;)

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27 Jun 2014 21:26:46
Aarf-Aarf!

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27 Jun 2014 14:44:08
With us going back to umbro will the new kit be available on the high street or just the club shop?

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27 Jun 2014 14:15:55
Don't get me wrong, it's great to hear us getting our best players to all sign new contracts to ward off potential suites. but I'm getting a bit bored now, when are we going to start signing some new players? We are well short in numerous positions within the squad & I feel we need to get moving soon or else we will miss out on 1st choice targets!

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Have patience.
The World Cup us still on - at least for 16 sets of international players - so some targets might still be engaged in that. RM said our transfers might not be until after the World Cup.
Contracts tend to end on 30th June I believe, so players on free transfers might not sign until 1st July or later. We're told that even players currently moving for fees won't be officially transferred and registered until 1st July.
We're Everton - we'll have transfer deals (permanent and loan, domestic and foreign) being worked on right up until the deadline - RM has said as much.
I'm satisfied so far that we're getting our best players on improved contract extensions - any incoming transfers (as and when they arise) will therefore be adding to the quality in our squad. Get a few of our talented youngsters coming through and that'll be the icing on the cake. :-)

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27 Jun 2014 13:36:07
not everton related but a bit of a rant, isn't football ridiculous now? 30m for luke shaw, 32 for hazard and 32 for lucas, youngsters cost a bomb, wasnt that long ago a 30m signing was like a superstar, is shaw worth 30m? no, for me the boy is bang average yes he puts his chest out like a model and is clearly in love with himself but 30m, its a joke what football is becoming, thankfully we are building our own players and getting bargains like stones, (is shaw 10x the play stones is?, no chance, I wouldn't swap the two) but how long will they last? how long before a half decent 17 year old in league 2 will start costing 10s of millions, personally I think its become disgusting now

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We were all asking that for Baines, he is 10 years younger. Don't get me wrong the amounts of money exchanging hands seem obscene on all levels BUT for that transfer in the market I would say it's bang on price

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If a player helps his club consistently finish in the Premier League top four and thereby gets them into the Champions League group stages, then the prize money and TV money (and other commercial income from worldwide exposure) will be there to fund these deals. Heaven help the clubs if the TV money ever stops flowing. For now, staying in the Premier League - and therefore getting the huge TV money - is essential to every Premier League club that doesn't have alternative sources of wealth and income. Let's also see how these big transfer deals affect the clubs when in comes to Financial Fair Play calculations - both in terms of transfer fees paid and the growth in wage bills.

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Will you be complaining when and if we sell Barkley for £50m? I didn't think so, you can't have it both ways Swan

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27 Jun 2014 16:09:29
Yeah but svenny, Bainesy isn't average. He'd improve any other team. Shaw wasnt worth that. I agree with Swan. Footballs become a rich mans game.

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27 Jun 2014 17:05:16
being honest? i'd rather we didn't sell anyone, southhampton fans are made up, 55m for shaw and the 26 year old 'kid' lallana, if we sold barkley for 50m i'd be happy, but in general, everything go up, their costs go up our costs go up, soon the average player will be far from the 5-6m we find today, its wrong both ways imo

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It has always been the same Swan. I guarantee that in 10 years time you will be saying, "500 million for Joe Bloggs, he is not worth that.". I am 57 and can remember Trevor Francis going for 1 million to Notts Forest. Everyone was staggered. Ever since and before, players are worth more than common sense tells you.

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27 Jun 2014 11:56:32
Got to give credit where it's due to Kenwright and co. Getting all our talented youngsters tied up on long term contracts. Also it tells me that the players are happy with the direction the club is going.

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I reckon that footballers choose to sign with a club - and choose to stay with a club - for three key reasons:
(1) It's a step-up from the level they were previously playing at - or better than any alternative; and/or
(2) They're on high wages, bonuses, etc.; and/or
(3) They're winning trophies or at least competing for them - be that domestic or European (especially Champions League).
Everton have done well over the DM - and now RM - periods with the first reason. We've had success bringing in lower-league players and turning them into established Premier League - even international - players.
It also seems that we're doing better with the second reason - offering improved contract extensions to our best players. This is surely down to the increased TV and prize money in the Premier League.
Now it's the third reason that we have to be achieving consistently. Any player - no matter how loyal - will surely be ambitious and want success (i.e. trophies and medals) and if Everton can't offer that, then I don't honestly blame a player for looking elsewhere. Hey - that's where we could attract talented players from other (currently less successful) clubs ourselves.
What am I missing in my take on this?

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27 Jun 2014 10:56:20
Congratulations Begium for winning all 3 group games. That's my holiday spends sorted. Now if they go on and win the tournament that's the holiday sorted. By the way thought Kev looked quite sharp when he got the ball, and is Luk really worth 20+?

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We're u going butlins

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28 Jun 2014 23:40:37
Bit up market that Mike. Skegness for me mate.

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27 Jun 2014 09:29:32
A lot of people are saying that suarez' s punishment is too harsh.
Duncan Ferguson was given 3 months jail AND a 9 match ban for a first time offence where there wasn't even a complainant (the person he assaulted refused to make a criminal complaint or attend court).
Yet suarez, who has been found guilty of the same offence on 3 seperate occasions gets a fairly lenient sentence by comparison and still people complain and say it's too much.

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{Ed001's Note - while I agree Suarez was dealt with extremely leniently, he is lucky to be still allowed to play football at all imo, Ferguson was not given the jail time for his first offence. Already with two previous convictions for assault, one for breach of the peace and one for drink-driving, Ferguson was already on probation when he headbutted McStay. Unlike footballers in England, who seem to be able to do what they like on and off the pitch with little worry about what the police have to say, Ferguson was treated like a member of the public. It IS 100% unfair compared to how other footballers get treated, but it was fair in comparison to how a member of the public would get treated.}

Who cares, until we get in to the champions league we won't be playing against him. He has played his last game for Liverpool and in England in terms of league football.

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27 Jun 2014 12:41:03
The most annoying thing I keep hearing is 'But he is a world class player . what a load of shite, great player or crap player it is not relevant and its totally unacceptable!

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27 Jun 2014 13:37:31
That's fair enough then Ed, I didn't realise he already had 2 prior convictions for assault.
Even so, it seems unfair that he was tried through the criminal courts for an offence that took place on a sports pitch.
If he had committed the offence in a public place then he would have deserved the sentence he received, but it happened during a sports match and imo should have been dealt with soley by the SFA. McStay didn't want to assist with the prosecution but it was still pursued in any case, as if the SFA wanted to make a case in point. Did he serve his ban in England even though the offence took place in Scotland?
I'm not condoning what Ferguson did in any shape or form but do feel suarez got off lightly by comparison.

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{Ed001's Note - like I said, I am not disagreeing, just thought it should be pointed out that there were reasons behind it. In my opinion, they should be harsher on all players, they get away with far too much, and so carry on with their idiotic behaviour. Ferguson was a bit of a problem before he ended up in jail, afterwards he was less so, maybe the experience calmed him down. Certainly pampering these stars is not helping them.}

What about if a footballer was found guilty of taking bribes to affect the result of an international match? Should any punishment - such as a ban from playing - only apply to international matches or should it apply to all football activities? Look at the cricketers who were found guilty of match-fixing - they received complete bans from all forms of cricket.
Also, just out of interest, Everton suffered many years ago in the 1960s when a key player (Tony Kay) was imprisoned - and banned from football - for match-fixing even though the offences happened when he was at his previous club (Sheffield Wednesday). Not only did we lose a very talented footballer, but I believe that the transfer fee we had paid (£40K I believe - a tidy sum back then) was not recoverable. The only upside is that the loss of Tony Kay meant that we went on to sign Alan Ball a couple or so years later to be our red-headed (as was Kay I believe) midfield maestro. But the bottom line with Tony Kay is that Everton suffered for something that had nothing to do with us.

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27 Jun 2014 16:15:41
Ed, thanks for your reply, I appreciate your opinion and comments.
Sid, didn't the Italian player Paolo Rossi receive a lengthy domestic and international ban for match fixing before going on to become top scorer at the 82 finals?
It begs the question why people with so much talent feel the need to take part in criminal acts when they're so well paid anyway.

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{Ed001's Note - Rossi was still banned, they repealed the sentence to allow him to play for them! Unreal that one.}

In relation to Tony Kay's situation, the so called betting on the outcome of the game between Ipswich Town and Sheffield Wednesday by three Wednesday players robbed EFC of the best midfield player of the sixties.
Nobby Stiles would never have made the England team if Tony, who had just won his first cap, had been still playing.
Despite being awarded man of the match for the game in question, Tony was banned for life, something that should never have been allowed to happen and would not be tolerated in today, s social climate.
An absolute travesty of justice which prevented a very talented footballer from earning a living at his chosen profession.
Still regret not being able see his career at Everton fulfilled.

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¿Que?
How did they manage that one Ed? Surely that couldn't happen nowadays or players would never serve their bans.

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{Ed001's Note - because the Italian FA were the ones that banned him, so they just decided winning was more important than honesty. I know it is hard to believe that there could be any corruption in Italy, when they have such honest chaps as Silvio Berlusconi running things nowadays, but that is what happened back then.}

Unbelievable! I bet West Germany were made up with that decision.
I was only young at the time but remember watching the final at my mates house.
His dad's Italian and went nuts every time Italy scored.
At the end of the game his dad got his home made red wine out and gave us all a glass. I was off my face after a few sips.

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I think we all agree FIFA have bottled it with the leniency of the ban and I'm not a bitter Blue. If one of our players was in the same position having acted like a wild animal, I certainly wouldn't be championing his cause. But I think the fact he has denied any wrong-doing and apparently preparing an appeal should mean the ban is increased, he's shown no remorse after all. In reality, I suspect the 4 month ban will be halved leaving him free to play before the end of August. If Barca are prepared to pay for the cheating burnt-earred horse face, I'd take their cash in a heartbeat.

Anyway, to more important things, who likes the new kit (I personally love it!) and are there any decent rumours of names being linked?

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27 Jun 2014 09:31:28
Isn't it a great shame that after the initial group stages of the world cup, where we have all seen some beautiful football played, some great moments and wonderful goals, we are all talking about that person across the park who does not know how to behave as a human being. We have seen one of our own giving out shirts to the poor. We have seen one of our past players score a wonder goal. In fact the good this tournament has done for world football is quite incredible. Then one moment of madness by an person who people have forgiven and supported time after time has ruined all the good done on behalf of football. One thing that has been clear to me is that England are too naive and cheating has gone on all round with the holding at corner kicks and blatant blocks of runners with the ball. FIFA need to clamp down on this and issue more yellow cards even if it means teams being reduced in numbers with sendings off. Other wise I will be saying that England also need to cheat to make any progression.and I don't want that.

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Even with the extra referee's assistants behind the goal lines in UEFA competitions, there didn't appear to be more punishment of the blatant holding, etc.
It's almost as though the official (FIFA, UEFA, FA, etc.) attitude is that it's "six of one, half-a-dozen of the other" between forwards and defenders in those situations and the referees can't possibly identify who are the culprits and are therefore expected to let the players get on with it accordingly. If the referee does award a free kick, it's always for the defenders (especially the keeper - even if he's only just been breathed on!) and never for a forward that's been wrestled to the ground. If referees started awarding penalty kicks and issuing cards, then we might see the blatant cheating reduced, but I just don't see that happening. :-(

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27 Jun 2014 09:20:28
Very interesting that Coleman has signed a 5 year deal. This after RM had also extended his deal to 5 years. This all bodes well for the club. I remember sad days when we used to offer long term contracts to players of other teams to get them to sign for us.only for them to then turn into lazy so and so, s. Rewarding the hard workers is the way forward. At least you know they are the ones who will just get on and do their jobs to the best of their ability. I am sure we will have some tough times ahead, but with the right people at the club, we will progress further.

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27 Jun 2014 01:58:11
Glad to see Coleman has signed an contract extension, Barkley hopefully next.
But please god I hope it's a wind up!
Samaras??
Must admit that am a bit worried that all the descent players we are linked with seem to be signing for other clubs and we now seemed to be getting linked with players who don't get me excited but fill me with dread, Rodwell included I just hope it's lazy journalism

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