Everton Banter Archive March 25 2018

 

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25 Mar 2018 17:24:56
Quite a debate going on below whether Sam is helping or hindering the team, as i see it he was brought in to do a job, to keep us up and for me I know the footy has been dire but we are now safe so whether it was down to Sam or not it doesn't really matter, I now reckon Mr Moshiri will now like most of us want him gone and already have someone lined up, if as being rumoured he is looking at getting rid of Steve Walsh and bringing in the Dutch guy and with others from the board on their way out we are going to be in for a very busy summer, we have the making of a good team, a new back line needs priority for me and we will be a far better team come the start of next season.

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26 Mar 2018 12:08:39
The way I see it is that we were never in danger of being relegated. Unsworth took a few games to turn the side around and in his final game we saw a side with more belief take West Ham apart - Sam (who still takes credit for that 4-0 btw) rode that wave for a couple of weeks and then started to implement his own plan which turned us into a total mess. We limped over the line and Sam managed to fool a few people it was down to him.

You could say I'm not impressed.

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{Ed001's Note - that is exactly how I see it too.}

26 Mar 2018 14:34:32
I'm with you BrightonToffee Sam was was moshiri's biggest mistake and us fans need to hope he learns from his mistakes.

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26 Mar 2018 19:29:37
Me too.

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26 Mar 2018 22:28:45
I know it's only opinions mate but we were close to the drop at one stage, but like I said I don't really care who was to blame but like you I want Sam gone in the summer and someone brought in who hopefully makes us all proud of our team again with good attacking footy, cheers.

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26 Mar 2018 23:24:04
I don't think any team is close to the drop in November. We became trigger happy and that is what could have cost us.

We need a new man in place that EVERYONE gets behind in the summer. If he stays it will get very bitter next season and will end up being worse than this season.

We can't waste another year.

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27 Mar 2018 01:26:06
Agree with all above.
We are on a massive project that we have taken some backward steps this year.
We need someone who can take us forward over at least 4-5 years.

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27 Mar 2018 10:23:20
I think the manager that can take us forward over at least 4-5 years will not get the opportunity. At the 1st sign of trouble will be hammered by discontented fans and the merest threat of relegation will be under extreme pressure from the board. I think the longer term manager is becoming a thing of the past in the EPL. Unless the manager is very successful they will always be ripe for the chop.

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27 Mar 2018 12:18:07
A that is why the DOF role needs sorting asap.

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27 Mar 2018 12:59:20
Long term appointments do exist
Howe and Dyche since 2012
Klopp and Pochettino since 2014
All have had different levels of success by being settled
We need at least 3 years to settle and hopefully another 2 or more to start a new dynasty.
You might not believe it but I am not a favourite of chop and change.
Kendall was struggling but the board at the time kept faith and look where that got us.

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27 Mar 2018 14:05:49
bw2412 Not saying long term appointments don't exist but there is much more pressure on managers to be successful in the short term. Koeman asked for 3 years got about 16 months Allerdyce asked for at least 18 months and will probably go at the end of the season. The expectation for instant success and fear of relegation often cloud peoples judgement. I expect Pep will be at City for the foreseeable future so that's 5 out 20 managers on what may be long term deals. Just looking at Howe and Dyche if they where offered the Everton post would they get the time needed if the team hit a bad run and was near the bottom of the table probably not. That's presuming they would take the job in the first place.

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27 Mar 2018 14:54:00
Good points SA but I (in hindsight which is a great thing) think we made a mistake appointing Koeman as we were only a stepping stone to him. Won't go into big Sam as everybody must be sick of that debate but there are managers out there (and I'm not just talking dyke, Howe Pochettino or klopp) who want a project and our board/ management must find one this time and stick with him. There will be times we will all be tested but, as long as we can see small improvements we will have to be patient.
Kendall wasn't overnight. Ferguson wasn't overnight, Dyche went down with Burnley.
In my opinion it will take a minimum of 4-5 years, Spurs haven't won anything yet, same with Liverpool recently, City took time. We will all need to be patient.

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27 Mar 2018 15:43:51
Unfortunately patience isn't a strong point with some of our fans. Then you will have the fans that will not like the appointment of whichever manager is put in charge and they will be pretty vocal. All in all although I totally agree our next manager will need 4-5 seasons to get us to a good place, I just can't see it happening, especially if they hit a bad run of form. I wasn't that happy when either Martinez or Koeman was appointed either but I think Koeman was sacked to early. Not sure if we were only a stepping stone for him, as never said as much, that was speculation. I would have preferred Unsworth given a few more weeks rather than SA being put in charge when he was but the get someone in we need a change or we are getting relegated brigade seem to have won that argument as well.

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{Ed025's Note - you will never keep everyone happy sa but i think if a new manager is appointed he will stand a better chance than sam, people were against him from the start for various reasons including his past managerial record and personal financial dealings, he never stood a chance really as the fans had made their minds up before a ball was kicked, i hope if a new guy gets the gig that the fans show some patience and give him a bit of time and a fair crack of the whip mate..

27 Mar 2018 19:44:04
I'm not sure what more a manager can achieve in 5-7 years that he can't in 2-4 years. With all the money flying around and the huge sums spent each window sometimes the management just gets stale after a few seasons.
Just look at pep and Mourinho. They come in, get the best they can out of a team and then move on.
Look at the RS they have pumped over 100million a season for the last 10 years, kept hold of managers and they're no further up the table than they were when they started.
Arsenal have thrown a load at Wenger this season and they have gone backwards.
Chelsea and man city have had quite a few managers between them over the last few years and have out performed the other top 6 teams.
It's the same Europe wide.

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25 Mar 2018 13:12:36
For me it's not a case of liking SA or not liking him for who he is. I am only interested in what is happening on the pitch. And at the moment it's fair to say the style of play being served up is dire.
All managers have certain ways of playing so they can't keep blaming the players. And they can't moan about well "these aren't my players", should think about that before they sign a big fat contract.
Simple fact is SA style of football does not suit this club, and therefore he should be released of his duties as manager.
Does saying this make me a toxic supporter? Not really. Just want to see the team playing good football again. We do have the players in the squad to do this, but sadly the manager doesn't appear to trust them.

Believable14 Unbelievable0

25 Mar 2018 14:01:03
very well put WB.

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25 Mar 2018 15:38:36
Bit confused about the statement "SA style of football does not suit this club" what style of football does suit this club I can't think of any particular style that we have played consistently over the last 20 years or so. SA style is closer to Moyes than RM and RK and Moyes was at the club longer than both put together.

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25 Mar 2018 15:53:05
It does not suit sa90 as we should be playing football with an intent to attack and not be super defensive, we have youthful wingers and some good footballing attack minded players, yet these attributes are not utilised. Why don't we ever see us start with 2 up top? Why don't we ever start with just one defensive midfielder if at all any?
We need a new identity and we need an equal balance between attack and defence, and that means having different formations for different opponents. SA does not have these attributes.

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25 Mar 2018 16:17:46
Woburn is right about the style of play. Regardless of which past manager it closely resembles, it’s horrible to watch. It’s set up almost out of desperation for results rather than using the ball to dominate the match, the latter of which is employed by the clubs who usually get silverware.

This football that SA puts out is not the kind of football that’s going to make us better, let alone winners.

Now I’d be happy for him to stay if he started to change now that we are safe. But if we’re going to be honest with ourselves then we pretty much know that’s not going to happen as there is no past evidence of him ever doing so.

So for me the sum of all things is this. He has done his job to the letter, he can now be released and compensated so that we can go about our business finding someone who can deliver Farhad Moshiris vision and success for the most patient fans in football.

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26 Mar 2018 05:35:33
Nail on the head Woburn, couldn't agree more mate.

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25 Mar 2018 12:15:54
The but SA but sniff brigade ruin this site. My comment wasnt posted about these in a reply. They are everywere you look like this site is theirs. Swerving this site for a long long time. Thanks eds and the rest of you blues.

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25 Mar 2018 11:12:19
Ok let's hypothesise for a moment and say that if DU had done at least as well as SA would the fans here be shouting as loud as they do against SA? or would they be saying he still needs more time? (That does not mean there is hidden messages saying SA should have more time)

Ed001 You are right in saying that the fans only have themselves to blame in the fact that they convinced themselves we would be vying for a top 4 finish I assume you would agree with me and say that our squad is not good enough yet for that, I would also go as far as saying that can not be the fault of SA.

It's interesting to see that DU wins one game and is deemed to of turned us around yet SA wins 2 back to back and is deemed lucky. There is a massive dislike for SA that was with a lot on here before he even joined the club. SA is probably the most disliked manager in the premiership as he seems to be disliked by fans of every club, that may be one of the reasons fans on here only look for the negatives and fail to see the positives.

Now as I have said before a few times, I see what everyone else see's and have resigned myself to the fact that SA will be at the helm AT LEAST until the end of the season, now whilst I may not like that, I feel as someone who fully supports the team that I must also support him, he is part of the team, part of the club and not supporting him is not going to change that. By constantly moaning about him and blaming him for everything is not going to change the way he manages us, the same could be said of supporting him, but once again I will say it is the club I support and he is part of the club.

If SA is not part of the club next season it will not be because the fans on here hate the guy it will be down to the fact that Mr Moshiri found a suitable replacement, But, now here is the crux, what happens if the fans do not like the replacement? Most already think they played a hand in getting rid of RM and RK and when SA goes they will also believe they had a hand in getting rid of him. It will not take a long time before fans turn on his replacement, because of the simple belief that they think they had played a part in getting rid of previous managers. That then lends itself to the question of how long do we give the new manager? I have a feeling it will be longer than what most have given SA. People are now saying that they gave SA full and total support when he joined, some actually did, but as for the rest, really! What is going to happen if a suitable replacement is not found, who do we turn on then? who can we blame? because blame is what a lot on here feel they need to do.

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{Ed001's Note - you seem to be missing the point. If Unsworth had done as well as Allardyce, he would not have cost tens of millions of pounds to do it and he would only be a caretaker until the right man was found. Allardyce has an enormous contract, which runs until the end of next season, yet he himself says he came in purely to rescue the club from relegation. So why, if he feels he is so good, did he not take a short term contract just to achieve what he claims he is there to do and then discuss the next step in the future?

And please stop with this crap about how you are a better supporter or arguing about how to support the club. It is not just tedious but makes you come across as a complete dick and ruins every discussion on here with your constant bull about how people should just support unconditionally or they are not true fans. If people question, it is not because of lack of support, it is because they want the best for the club they support and think it could be doing better. That is not being a bad supporter, it is just a different way of supporting. Peter Johnson would still be owner if everyone supported like you. Kenwright would never have come in if he supported the way you do. He put his money in because he disagreed with the way the club was being run.}

25 Mar 2018 11:41:30
Ed001 thank you for saying what all us so called 'toxics' have been saying for months.

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{Ed001's Note - the problem is that there are toxic fans, who will just bitch and moan about everything, but that does not mean all fans unhappy at the moment are toxic. I just wish Grumpy would stop lumping them all in together. Questioning things is not bad in of itself, we should always question things to make sure that the right thing is being done, in every walk of life.}

25 Mar 2018 12:11:54
Completely agree ed1. Not causing arguments but there are posters have jumped to sams defence unequivocally so far and There are total toxic fans who spout nonsense, just wanna slag Sam off and only wanna say destructive comments but the vast majority of fans support the club wholeheartedly but are not happy with certain aspects of the club.
As ed says unsworth had started to turn the ship around and we will never know if he would have succeeded but it has cost the club 10 million and some awful football to put Sam in charge. We never do anything easy. Always seems to be a roller coaster with our great club.
As a club we have to start to unite and we have Sam and these players until the summer (we may love them or hate them but they are our players) so we need to support them to get the highest league position we can and let the powers that be make the big decisions in the summer.

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25 Mar 2018 13:03:20
Ok Ed001 it is just my opinion.

Everyone else keeps on repeating their own opinions including yourself, some come across as bitter whilst others don't. Just because I do not support the club in the same way as others does not make me a dick, just because my opinions differ from yours does not mean I ruin every discussion. If you re-read some of my posts you will see that I have stated that I have no problem with anyone being anti SA and that some are not just content with being anti SA but they are toxic with it, we both seem to agree on that point but I have nor will I ever lump the 2 together.

You have stated yourself in your answer that some have become toxic yet there are others on here now claiming they have never seen anything toxic and that basically it is being made up. So who is right? you, me and some others who say there are toxic posts or those who deny everything? regardless of if you like it or not Ed001 we do actually have common ground, we both have read toxic posts, and because of that if we ever meet you can give me a big hug instead of trying to break my nose.

On my part I will now refrain from any comments or joining in any posts regards SA, I shall also refrain from commenting when someone says they fully support the club. I may come across as a dick, but in my opinion the amount of true dicks on here out number me greatly.

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{Ed001's Note - it is not what you say, it is how you say it and the fact that you just constantly say the same thing over and over about 'true' support. I have no problem with you as a person, as I said, it makes you come across as a dick, I was not saying you were a dick. If I thought you were then I wouldn't have spent so much time replying or even bothering to read or edit your posts. They would have simply been deleted. We all do it at times. I know I do it a lot. Get so carried away making a point and forget to think maybe I have already made it or maybe my wording is not getting my point across just putting people's back up etc. That was what I was saying to you. We get what you believe about support, so you don't need to ram it down our throats or it will get stuck next to degsy's point about Osman scoring goals.... ;-)

25 Mar 2018 13:11:25
ed001 very well put to many people on here would have us walk blindly into the night what a sad place it would be if everyone just accepted everythng without question keep up the good work mate.

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25 Mar 2018 14:52:35
I will be the first to admit that you do let a lot of my posts appear on here, a few get out and out deleted but I do actually understand why now because of the last lot of comments you made on my post.

At the end of the day we are all human and it is because of that we all tend to think people don't get what we are saying because they do not agree with us. In the 75 years I have been moaning about things the trait of letting things go has eluded me I'm afraid to say. It will be a difficult thing for me to keep in check but I will give it a good go, I may slip up a couple of times but in the main I shall stop repeating things time and time again.

It is certainly possible that some of my posts may have given the impression that I included all the SA haters in the "toxic" remarks. I want everyone to be assured that I did not intend that and offer you all an unreserved apology. It was wrong of me to give that impression. If anyone on this forum believes I have over stepped the mark, then again I offer my full apologies as I have never intended to.

Last and certainly not least the Ed's on here do a wonderful job, they not only moderate us but all the other prem teams as well. No doubt they see what has happened here a lot of times with other forums but that does not make it acceptable. Seeing people arguing with the Ed's is one of my pet hates yet I have found myself doing the exact same thing, that is wrong of me and I offer all of the Eds my unreserved apologies.

I have nothing further to say on this matter and hope we can draw a line underneath it and move on. We need to end this bickering and toxicity that has crept in. Bloody SA has got a lot to answer for. And no I do not think he should be with us next season.

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{Ed001's Note - cheers mate, that is very good of you to say so. As for arguing with the Eds, it really depends on the form it takes mate. The ones that are a pain are those that argue when we give out information because they don't like it. Rather than just grumbling about it, they decide to argue that it is rubbish because they can't accept it. Oh or the other one is when someone asks your opinion on something just so that they can start a fight about it, never got that one! But if you don't agree with our opinion and argue your case, it is how it is said that is more of the problem and you have never strayed over the line with me anyway. So take care and let's hope for a cheery toffee by the end of the season, with a good summer to look forward to!}

25 Mar 2018 16:19:12
I second that.

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25 Mar 2018 19:02:38
Nice post GT.

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25 Mar 2018 19:11:12
Thank you myteam, I appreciate that.

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25 Mar 2018 20:29:39
In regards to Unsworth winning one game, one point you are missing is that 3of the first 4 games Unsworth took over we’re away games, add to that games in the Europa league that we were as good as out before we gave Koeman the sack, some of those games he tried various youngsters out, one of the few home Premier games he got we at least played some attacking football.

In his brief spell, he brought through Beningame who I thought did a cracking job but since Sam came in, he has been left out of the team.

Unsworth was unlucky in the timing he took charge, whereas for me Sam had a huge slice of luck in those early games, missed penalties, woodwork rattled, we had one hell of Lady Luck on our side in those early games for Sam.

So for me, it is hard to compare Sam with Unsworth, one came at the right time, the other at the worst possible time.

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26 Mar 2018 03:15:16
Ed001 don’t mention degsy abd Osmans goals, he still mentions these imaginary goals every other post. That comment did make me chuckle 😂😂😂😂.

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{Ed001's Note - I did wonder at times if they were related!}

25 Mar 2018 11:12:19
Ok let's hypothesise for a moment and say that if DU had done at least as well as SA would the fans here be shouting as loud as they do against SA? or would they be saying he still needs more time? (That does not mean there is hidden messages saying SA should have more time)

Ed001 You are right in saying that the fans only have themselves to blame in the fact that they convinced themselves we would be vying for a top 4 finish I assume you would agree with me and say that our squad is not good enough yet for that, I would also go as far as saying that can not be the fault of SA.

It's interesting to see that DU wins one game and is deemed to of turned us around yet SA wins 2 back to back and is deemed lucky. There is a massive dislike for SA that was with a lot on here before he even joined the club. SA is probably the most disliked manager in the premiership as he seems to be disliked by fans of every club, that may be one of the reasons fans on here only look for the negatives and fail to see the positives.

It is right that the fans have become divided with him and that is changing the way we now support the club, people claim to fully support the club, yet at the same time want to pick and choose what parts of the club to fully support, whilst others, myself included fully support the club warts and all. It now seems it is wrong to fully support the club yet it is right to say we do.

Now as I have said before a few times, I see what everyone else see's and have resigned myself to the fact that SA will be at the helm AT LEAST until the end of the season, now whilst I may not like that, I feel as someone who fully supports the team that I must also support him, he is part of the team, part of the club and not supporting him is not going to change that. By constantly moaning about him and blaming him for everything is not going to change the way he manages us, the same could be said of supporting him, but once again I will say it is the club I support and he is part of the club.

If SA is not part of the club next season it will not be because the fans on here hate the guy it will be down to the fact that Mr Moshiri found a suitable replacement, But, now here is the crux, what happens if the fans do not like the replacement? Most already think they played a hand in getting rid of RM and RK and when SA goes they will also believe they had a hand in getting rid of him. It will not take a long time before fans turn on his replacement, because of the simple belief that they think they had played a part in getting rid of previous managers. That then lends itself to the question of how long do we give the new manager? I have a feeling it will be longer than what most have given SA. People are now saying that they gave SA full and total support when he joined, some actually did, but as for the rest, really! What is going to happen if a suitable replacement is not found, who do we turn on then? who can we blame? because blame is what a lot on here feel they need to do.

For me the SA debate is over, if people want to claim to fully support the club whilst only supporting parts of it, then that is up to them. I on the other hand will continue to support the club FULLY.

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25 Mar 2018 11:34:05
Good post Grumpy.

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Review Of The Day 25th March 2018

25 Mar 2018 06:03:52
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 25th March 2018

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25 Mar 2018 03:22:51
1.Sam has saved us from regation. He has bought two decent players.3 With the exception of Pickford and Sigudsun, Koeman spent a fortune on crap.4 If he can out run the sam haters for the summers and next season starts with 8 wins from the first 10, there will be no problem getting the vast majoriy right behind him, yes even if its 8 1-0s and 2 0-0s.

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{Ed001's Note - I don't get this 1. Everton were already turned around before Allardyce got the job. Results and form had improved and were on an upward curve. You were no longer looking like a team in a relegation battle until he arrived and kept claiming you were.}

25 Mar 2018 07:13:50
Name one game we've played really well under Sam. The only games we've won are expected. Ed 1 right there all he's done is go on about a relegation battle and how he's stopping it. He should of come in saying we want to finish top 7. He's set low standards so he can meet expectations.

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25 Mar 2018 08:10:58
ha ha Sam saved us from relegation we where 13th in the league when he took over it was Unsworth who took over when we where at our lowest point and it was Unsworth who slowly turned it around Sam took over at just the right time after a 4-0 win over West ham and Sam has even tried claiming that victory as his own Sam will go down as nothing but a stain on our proud history.

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25 Mar 2018 08:41:41
Ed001 whilst I am not a Sam Allardyce addict. and I am now at the point I think he probably does have to go because of the way the fans are split. your facts or opinions are not quite accurate. It is true that we beat West Ham 4 nil in the game prior to Sam starting. Sam joined the end of November. and in the November fixtures prior to that, we lost 3, won 1 and drew 1. In October, we had won none, lost 5 and drew 1. In September, we had won 2, drew 1 and lost 3. In that lot there were the Europa League games against Atalanta, Limasol, Hajduk Split and Apallon Limassol. So not what you would call "top" opposition. That equals 11 losses, 3 draws and 3 wins. That is 12 points from a potential 51 points. I really don't think that is a good return from those games. I accept that we played Chelsea, Spurs etc in those games, but 12 from 51 is not "turned the corner". I think we were in a relegation battle and the fact in that run we lost to Limassol, Lyon, Burnley at home, Southampton 4-1 and Atalanta 5 -1 at home just says we were struggling. I think for all of Sam's problems. which I agree he has some. Koeman had got us in a mess. after spending huge amounts of money on players who are now rotting on the bench or even not playing at all.

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{Ed001's Note - you going back way too far and overthinking things. Forget Koeman, his time was irrelevant to this. It is whether or not Unsworth had an effect or not that matters and it is clear he had done so. The issue was that the board panicked, thought Unsworth wasn't doing anything because the turnaround was not immediate and pressed the self destruct button. Unsworth had clearly turned things around and got the performance level up and results would have come under him. You did not need someone to rescue you from relegation, you were not going down under Unsworth anyway. In fact, I personally believe Unsworth would have done at least as good a job, pointswise, as Allardyce.

I know Sam tries to take the credit for everything, including being the saviour, but what has he actually done? Brought two players in?? Not his job and neither were anything to do with him. He made it plain what he thought of Tosun with his disparaging remarks about the lad after he arrived, so he could point the finger of blame elsewhere if the player didn't adjust. Has he won points that the team would not have expected to win under Unsworth? Again no, if anything I think Unsworth could have picked up more by having a bit of ambition for the club and wanting to pick up points on your travels.

I know you are all rewriting history to claim this team is actually full of crap players who aren't good enough, but in the summer you all thought they were good enough to challenge the top 4, some even thought a title shot was possible. So to suggest it is suddenly a terrible squad is ridiculous. The one thing that has been terrible was the mismanagement of Koeman and Allardyce has just managed expectations to try and make everyone believe he is overachieving, like his nonsense about how he overachieved with 'little old Bolton on a shoestring'. People seem to forget how he did not manage on a shoestring, which is why the club ended up in financial difficulties. It was because he overspent, not because he managed on their limited budget.

Everton have a good squad, which lacked an out and out goalscorer and a left back, when the season kicked off. Nothing insurmountable as very few teams in the Prem have a top class striker who notches significant goal returns but they are still managing to get in the top half. This season has been a failing that Allardyce has played on to make people think he has achieved something, when in fact his only achievement throughout his career has been to get people believing he has been successful against the odds. This is the man who said he would win everything if he had a good team, well he has one and he is showing no signs of fulfilling his boasts.}

25 Mar 2018 09:34:47
ED01 I couldn't agree more with what you have said the only thing I want to come out this mess is that Moshiri learns from his mistakes that's all we as fans can hope for.

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25 Mar 2018 10:27:30
Wow ED001.Thank you. aproper debate. and not the insults that I have been getting. and I agree with a lot of your points. but I also have a slightly different view on a couple. the fist one is that we have (or should I say had) a good squad. That bit I disagree. I agree 100% with you that the squad has good players. but in previous posts I have pointed out that we have 3 defenders who are still our best defenders left over from Moyes' days. ie Baines, Coleman and Jags. Jags is still our best central defender at 35. Baines is 33. We have no left footed cover for Baines at all. Both are likely to suffer injuries at that age. little niggles and pulls. Neither will go on forever. We played Martina at left back when Baines was injured because the alternative was one of the kids. When Coleman got injured we played Kenny at 20.He made repeated mistakes that led to goals. Martina who could not get in the team at Southampton and was released covered initially at RB and then at LB. He also made repeated mistakes that led to goals. He was not great at RB so to cover at LB was admirable but not ideal. When successive managers picked Williams and Keane together. they both made repeated mistakes. Ashley Williams was never the most mobile of players and at also 33 has slowed down a bit. So our main defenders in the squad are a couple of kids who are prone to mistakes and one left footer and 3 aged 33 or over. That to me reeks of no balance and certainly no forward planning over the last few seasons. There is a lack of players in their prime. Yes there are great youngsters with potential for the future and yes there are players with class coming to the end of their careers. but only Keane in the right age group. I agree with you 100% that Unsworth had started to show that he had indeed started toturn around the players and make decisions that would take us forward. I have no doubt that if he had been given the opportunity we would probably be in a similar position to where we are now. I also agree that Sam takes credit when he can and avoids responsibility when it suits him. I agree 100% that we as fans expected too much. I agree 100% that we lacked a center forward of any decency and a left back. And as I am back on the squad. we signed what a lot of people call number 10'S. Rooney, Sigs, Klaasen, even Vlasic has played that position, Shneiderlin. so we cannot pick all of these. especially when you consider we have Davies and Gueye as other midfield alternatives. I rate Davies and it is only his age that is against him at the mo. I would expect other clubs to be after him if not already. the lad has great potential. Back to the squad. I am not 100% sure but I believe that Baines is our only left footed player. so when he was injured we had right footers in every position. Whilst you may get away with a player here and there playing with "the wrong" foot. overall you need some balance. That is why I said the squad is poor. We have a couple of poor players, a load of kids, a load of ageing players and only one left footer. Individually they may all be decent players, but the balance is wrong. Too much reliance on youngsters, too much reliance on older players, insufficient players with natural left foot ability, players missing in 2 key positions and too many players who can play in the same position. and one player who really is just not good enough as much as I would love him to be. That in my view is not a good squad. I suspect we were trying to get Barkley cover and ended up with too much. never anticipated Baines and Coleman being out injured at the same time. didn't try hard enough for a center forward and expected Keane to be able to just come straight in and perform at the levels he did for Burnley last season. I also expect we never thought we would need Martina to cover the amount of games he actually did. but that goes back to my point about relying on older players that although great. will pick up niggles here and there and may also get a double fracture asany player can. but we should have had better cover. Next season we will need new players to replace Baines and Jags and Williams for sure. None of these will be Premiership players next season. Hope that explains my views and thanks for a proper debate Ed001.

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{Ed001's Note - I fail to see a problem with using kids though. What is the point of having an academy if you don't use the youth team?

I know there is a lot more than that to answer in your post, but I think that is the key issue. If you look at Southampton, for example, they never struggled when they turned to the youth team for cover.

There is a problem with the balance of the squad, but you can say that about every team. Man City only had one left back, who picked up a long term injury. Liverpool only had one right back, who has not played all season, instead they use a youth centre back and youth midfielder to cover the position. I could go on and on with every team, including Man Utd who play wingers at full back, but I think the point is clear, the issue is that Everton have managed their problems in a way that made the gaps in the squad bigger, rather than found ways to make them seem less of an issue.}

25 Mar 2018 10:54:23
I ddont want a ping pong thing and accept most of your points. I would just say an over reliance on kids and oldies and not enough in their prime. Like an over reliance on right footers. and not enough left footers. Our initial debate was that people were saying we had a poor/ crap squad and the rest we pretty much agreed on. I just wanted to say that I was NOT saying we had crap players (well maybe one. but even he gives 100%) . I was saying the squad was poor because of balance. no left back, no center forward/ goalscorer, too many kids and too many oldies. not enough in key positions playing at the peaks of their careers. that's all. I do get your points about other clubs too. but in my humble opinion. there is just too much imbalance in the Everton squad. and I won't even mention Pickford's reluctance to come off his line because I know you will agree! lol.

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25 Mar 2018 10:56:35
To be fair to Koeman he did have a run of 10 games last season where we drew 4 and lost 6. He then turned it around and finished 7th. The board only gave him 9 prem games this season of which he won 1 and drew 2, which is actually a better points return than the run of 10 games last season. Looking at it that way, the fans and board were probably too hasty.

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