Everton Banter Archive March 23 2015

23 Mar 2015 21:13:27
Finding it very funny that for the last 9 months, martinez fans have been very quiet.
Suddenly oh we're not going to get relegated now if so we can come on here andi vent our fury on the 5 evertonians who don't like martinez
!
What's it going to be then boys, climb back into to your bunker tomorrow till next october when we are back in the poo and BK has no choice but to sack the fraud!

23 Mar 2015 21:39:32
I was a big Martinez fan - "was" being the operative word - but this season, since around Christmas, I've been extremely critical of him. Like a pendulum, I've swung from one extreme to another and have now come to rest dead-centre. There's no evidence that BK has any intention whatsoever of firing RM, so, for me, it's now just about results until the end of the season, at which point I'll re-assess. As it stands, my current opinion of RM is that he certainly talked a good game (clearly smooth-talking BK at the job interview, suckering the media early on, and hoodwinking many a gullible fan last season), but his relentless positivity is now repetitive, annoying and insulting to all and sundry - especially as the results and performances and been so poor this season. I'm convinced that BK will give RM time - just as he did with Moyes - but that RM needs to deliver on the transfer-front and on bringing through our youngsters and on getting the squad/team to perform effectively and win on the field. Once RM has shipped out all the players he doesn't want and brought in the ones he does want (those who buy into his philosophy), then he'll probably get a season or two before BK makes a decision. But what the heck do I know - I'm just another blinkered and opinionated and ill-informed ordinary supporter.
Ho, hum.

23 Mar 2015 22:14:48
Well I've been quiet Mushy because I couldn't be bothered arguing or debating the issue with fans who many of which had made their minds up as early as mid-November and have been screamin' 'Blue murder' (pardon the pun) ever since. And using Wigan as some sort of evidence to prove their theory that RM is a rubbish manager. Despite the fact that he kept them in the Prem for 5yrs and managed to win the FA Cup with them. Some fans keep saying 'Oh look he got Wigan relegated' and it's just pure nonsense. Wigan were a small club that were punching way above their weight. If they were such a huge Prem level club, why after a cpl of seasons in the Championship are they going down again? I suppose that's RM's fault too!! Like I said I couldn't be bothered arguing about it but I for one am still behind RM. It's been a poor poor season but I don't think last season was a fluke. Lots of players have under-performed this year and they should take some of the blame as well. But I'm prepared to give RM another season and still believe he can turn things round. I believe BK thinks that way too or he would have acted already. If things don't change next yr then we start again. But I believe that they will. So until then I will just stay quiet (which is not hiding in a bunker) It's called not being bothered arguing with people who have already made their minds up and shout any attempt to defend RM down!!

24 Mar 2015 09:07:29
Mushy I have not been quiet I have always said how disappointed I have been this season but mistakes have been made and lack of confidence and bad luck. But I have always backed our manager!

24 Mar 2015 10:14:13
Backing a failing manager no questions asked, is the stuff that keeps people like RM in their jobs no doubt about that imo.

The 2 sides of this coin is as follows

Unswerving loyalty, blind faith and so on are admirable qualities in the right context such as doting on a proven leader who will stand and fight in the trenches with his troops etc.

Flip side is standing shoulder to shoulder with a complete a##hole who doesn't have a clue how he's going to sort this mess out but says he does regardless of the consequences that will surely ensue if he refuses to change course .

24 Mar 2015 18:33:06
Ive said it before and I will say it again DM's second season was shocking and yet we did progress under his management so for me the jury is still out on RM. It has taken him a long time and it may well have been led by the senior players but he has changed our style of play which is now more effective at getting results. My main gripe with RM are his press conferences he needs to understand that we are not stupid and can actually see if the players are performing so he should change his tune accordingly.

{Ed025's Note - he cant help himself sa90, he is more rigid than a man in ann summers mate.. :)

24 Mar 2015 19:47:16
Hey Ed, what are they like errrrm, these 'ann summers' places?

{Ed025's Note - like a sweet shop for adults 247..i get all sorts from there mate.. :)

24 Mar 2015 19:51:11
RM fan here, was happy with appointment and was very happy with last season, we played some fantastic football.yes agree this season has been awful and not acceptable, however I can't see our board sacking him and I believe he deserves one more season. I am getting fed up of his analysis of games though and wish he would come out and say performances are not acceptable etc.

{Ed025's Note - thats one of things that really irks the supporters ste, he makes it sound like he is happy with the performance when we can all see that we have been hopeless for most of the season, then he says things like "we dont practice corners", he does himself no favours at all mate..

24 Mar 2015 20:12:21
Totally agree ed025 you would think big joe would have a word with him wouldn't you? Along the lines of " listen gaffer stop chatting rubbish at press conferences, start practicing set pieces and can't we appoint weir as defensive coach

{Ed025's Note - you really would ste, i cant stop liking the guy but he does like to shoot himself in the foot mate..

24 Mar 2015 20:16:56
''Like a sweet shop for adults 247. I get all sorts from there mate. :)


Bloody ell Ed, I really do need to talk to the missus about me getting out by me self for a change,

There's a world out there I obviously need to discover, so Bertie Basset is at it too then kinky little bugger ;)

{Ed025's Note - theres a big world outside 247, and the voyage of discovery is a wild ride, hop onboard mate and hold on tight.. :)

27 Mar 2015 11:35:01
Sad comment same fella b fairly quite next season if we do well I bet

23 Mar 2015 09:32:51
I can not believe the rubbish some fans write Roberto out are you boys having a laugh I used to enjoy coming on this page but lately its really embarrassing are you old enough to remember us under Mike Walker and Walter Smith do you remember Moyes's second season when we finished 17th without being in Europe as a Evertonion one season does not make Roberto a poor Manager yes we have had a poor season but we had an exceptional one last season some would say over achieved next season will be the defining season for Roberto it will be a interesting summer who comes in who goes but by shouting Roberto out just embarrasses this great club and makes our fans a laughing stock we stick with our team, club and manager through thick and thin have faith and if we are in the same position this time next season then start questioning Roberto as manager not after 2 seasons

23 Mar 2015 11:32:56
could not disagree more, the mans a bloodey joke, a bad one at that, he is a walking liability, if allowed more time, he will take us the way of Wigan.

23 Mar 2015 13:02:39
Completely disagree with the OP. Roberto has been poor this season and needs to go. Here's why:

1. Tactics- Roberto's tactics have been one dimensional, and teams have figured out that if they press high up the pitch, our defence makes mistakes. Roberto has refused to rectify this, and has even said he will not compromise the passing game, which as stats have shown, is often leaving us camped in our own half, with 60% possession but like 5 shots on goal. His team selection also leaves a lot to be desired. He picks his favourite 11 instead of his best team, leaving us with 3 defensive midfielders and 1 winger in some weeks, or 3 no.10s another. He often plays players out of position when they are clearly uncomfortable and not competent in that area (e.g. Barkley, Naismith on the wing). He also has no system for picking players, and plays his favourites no matter what, such as Barry when he has been awful all season, plays every game, or dropping Joel for Howard, or playing Alcaraz instead of Stones on Thursday. His substitutions are also poor, bringing off Besic every game despite often being our best player, or not substituting Alcaraz on Thursday when he was having an awful game and was at fault for several goals.

2. Transfers/Appointments- His transfers have been okay, but he's got a couple of poor ones, Alcaraz, Kone and McGeady. His staff appointments and departures are also a moot point. He has got rid of fitness coaches/physios and replaced with his own, which could be a factor in our injuries, as we have had a lot more injuries than we used to in his reign, particularly hamstrings.

3. Training- Players have said that he doesn't do much fitness training, preferring ball work. Anybody can see that this is a likely contribution to players apparent lack of fitness in matches and the excessive injuries. Also, Martinez doesn't practice corners, as he believes it isn't a proper way to score. This has a twofold effect, firstly, we are really poor at defending corners, which has lead us to concede a lot of goals, and secondly we are missing out on a very effective method of goalscoring, especially when you have Big Rom in the box.

4. Honesty- He lies through his teeth in press conferences, putting a positive spin on everything e.g. "we showed great character" when we have been beaten by a team at the bottom end of the table. I don't want him to rip into the team in public, but he needs to admit when we have played poorly and underachieved, instead of constantly making excuses.

5. Results- See table.

Overall, given the way his first season went, I could probably forgive all of the above if it was his first big job or if he was new to management, but the fact remains that this is the same side as last season, the best team we have had in about 30 years and a team that should be higher up the table. The problem is that he has refused to change, and there is no evidence that he is prepared to change, as most of the problems we have experienced this season were problems his last club had. He has no plan B, and refuses to have one. This unwillingness to adapt is the reason he needs to go. I don't think we should be prepared to risk our future as a top flight club, just to give this charlatan a chance to win a meaningless bit of silverware like a league cup.

23 Mar 2015 13:56:01
Excellent post Tommy, all I would add to that is the OP talks about embarrassment, how embarrassing is it for this great club, when the manager has the nerve to appear on television and tell the world how "phenomenal" we have played and how unlucky we where when the reality is we played abysmal at best?

I would agree with the OP on one point though, and that is one season does not make El Bob a bad manager, but this is his sixth season as a Manager in the PL, his finishing positions being in order 16th, 16th, 15th, 18th, 5th and whatever we manage to achieve this season. Thus I would suggest five poor seasons out of six attempts make him not good enough to be in charge of Everton.

23 Mar 2015 14:12:07
Also, at least under the likes of Walter Smith, we had a poor side and no money to improve it, so our position in the league was realistic. Like I said above, the team we have this year is easily a top 8 side, so there's no real excuse for where we are now.

23 Mar 2015 17:07:49
Sorry OP, but you have to look at the squad,

under RM they are anything from 9 points to maybe 12 points shy of their real potential (currently)this season!

Last season was obviously his zenith, imo because of 2 main factors

#1 He inherited a solid defence in terms of know how and players being familiar with each other.

#2 Opponents were by and large stunned by this new invigorated Everton who suddenly could not only pass teams off the pitch, they could also find ways of scoring goals and winning football matches.


This changed this season when managers multi laterally decided to ask RM ' OK what else do you have in your locker?

The answer has been an emphatic ' nothing, nout, bloody
zilch '

and word has really got around now that 'hey this guy ain't got a plan b '

23 Mar 2015 18:10:20
I agree with johnny we need to back Roberto and judge next season. It's been a terrible season but hopefully lessons have been learned from it. Roberto is a young manager who has made mistakes and always acts dignified I am certain he will tell the players behind closed doors what he thinks. I still believe the players are playing for him. I think next season will be phenomenal (lol) no Thursday games which will make us strong in the league. We should give the likes of ledson, browning etc some games before end of season and hopefully they can add to squad next year with stones, McCarthy, Barkley and Lukaku. All players to have a break in the summer and start the season with some optimism.

23 Mar 2015 19:32:29
Sorry Robbie, but that argument does not stand up. El Bob has been a professional club manager since 2007. If he has not grasped the basics by now then he isn't going to do so. If he was inclined to learn from his mistakes, I would suggest Wigan would still be in the PL.

{Ed025's Note - fair point wedge..

24 Mar 2015 09:05:13
Wedgewood/Ed so if you are a manager for 8 yrs that's it you know everything? It's a ongoing education and all managers make mistakes and learn from them. Ferguson made mistakes with a few signings etc moyes got found out and people try and stop your threat like they tried to block baines and piennar then we put fellaini up top to hold ball up it's all about finding solutions and I have confidence Roberto will. But some are just on the bandwagon and constantly being negative and give no credit at all.

24 Mar 2015 14:24:37
Robbie, First and foremost I am not on any bandwagon, and as for charges of negativity, well that seems to be leveled at anyone who is concerned about the club and does not buy into the "everything will be okay if we ignore it" School of positive thought. The reality is a problem will not go away unless it is identified and fixed.

Obviously no one on the planet knows everything about any given subject and we all carry on learning through life and careers. My point is how long does it take to learn the basics of your trade no matter what it is? The man has been in management for 8 years, how long does it take to learn how to defend? Considering he was professional player for 14 years before that. So after 22 years in the professional game (not including youth level) Is it not reasonable to expect him to be able to understand the basics of how a team should defend?

His time at Wigan is ignored by some because they say Wigan was not an established PL team and credit him with being some kind of genius in keeping them up. Wigan were in the PL for 8 years in the first 2 under Paul Jewel they conceded 52 and 59 goals respectively. In the second 2 years under Steve Bruce they conceded 51 and 45. in the following 4 seasons under El Bob they conceded 79, 61, 62 and 73. The fact is, he took over a team that finished 11th in the PL, had them shipping 15 to 34 more goals a season and toying with relegation until it finally happened.

Now after 2 years with Everton he has turned one of the best defences in the PL into one of the worst. How much time and ongoing learning process does this man need to figure out if you keep shipping goals you are going to be in big trouble?

To learn from a mistake first you have to admit there is one, something that does not seem to have happened. In fact he seems oblivious to the fact that anything is wrong at all. He has given interviews where he holds his time at Wigan up as a shining example, like it was some kind of success story, when the reality is his time there was a total disaster for them (FA Cup win aside.) Those are not the actions of man young or old learning from his mistakes.

If you want to risk the future of Everton FC on this man having a moment of clarity, admitting his mistakes and putting them right fair comment. I personally and I suspect many others who want him out do not. Not based upon dislike of him personally, not based on any bandwagon, but based upon our showing this season and his past record.

24 Mar 2015 18:33:43
''Not based upon dislike of him personally''


Wedgewood: this I believe is a key factor in the 'pro RM faction' stance i.e. their posturing and attitude towards the 'anti RM faction'

Imho there is no issue at all with him as a person outside of a football context .

However there is now genuine worry and concern over his professional aptitude .

I personally do not think for one minute he is a natural leader in the competitive high powered world of the Premier League .

24 Mar 2015 19:40:07
I respect your opinion Wedgwood, I think a lot of the poor defending has been individual mistakes this season. As I say it is up to Roberto to look at at the end of the season and change or find solutions. We are a club that gives managers time and don't want to go down the route of hiring and firing each season. I can only give my thought, opinions and hopes and rightly or wrongly I believe!

{Ed025's Note - roberto is marmite at the moment robbie, i dont like sacking managers willy nilly either mate, but can we afford to have another season like this? i dont think so..

24 Mar 2015 21:06:03
Robbie, I respect your opinion also, to be honest with you I hope for all our sakes your opinion is right, as I do not see the board sacking the man, so in that context I honestly do hope that I am wrong and he does change things around.

That said, like you all I can do is give my opinion as I see it, and on that I am in agreement with blue 24/7 in regards that my opposition to el bob is purely football based, his ability or lack of it to do what is needed and a genuine fear for the future of the club.

{Ed025's Note - im with you wedge..

23 Mar 2015 00:31:00
Am I, pleased we won, yes, 9 points clear with 7 to play, I think we are safe, BUT, do I still want that conman out of our club, you bet.However, Martinez, is the sympton, not the disease.
Our 15 year malaise has only one root cause, Mr "everton" Bill Kenwright. He spent ten years kissing the ass of everton's longest serving manager, who never won anything, never even won a game at chelsea, unt, aresnal, or the reds, in 10 bloody years.He leaves, in a way that treats our club with total disrespect, yet him and bill are, by all reports, best mates again.
He then appoints a manager who has just got his side relegated, and more than that has a track record of almost doing so in the two preseeding seasons.
Then, when he takes us to the brink of relegation, rather than haveing,, the ball to admit he made a gross error of judgment, he puts his ego before our club. If we are ever to return to fotballs top table, Kenwright and his cronies have to go.

23 Mar 2015 09:29:36
You must only be 15 years old as I can remember what we had before. If you have a short memory that take a look at the history books and see what the 90's were like.

We were a club that almost got relegated on numerous occasions, had players either at the end of their careers with no resale value(at one point we owed more in transfer fees than what the 1st 11 were worth) and the chairman was selling the best players behind the managers back.

Move to the present day and you have a team that has been finishing in the top 6 or 7 on a regular basis (with the exception of this), 2 player alone worth more than what the entire club was worth when he took over (Lukaku&Barkley 60-70mil), massive turnover, it's highest amount of sponsorship ever and brought European football back to Goodison Park.

His only failing as a chairman is a new stadium and that could soon be coming to an end and not being mega rich.

He like the rest of us were duped by Martinez and after last season, we weren't having a go at BK then but singing his praises. For this year direct it at the man who has caused the real problems this season - the manager.

23 Mar 2015 09:49:03
sorry JCW that's a bit unfair, BK like all chairmen will have to endure the wrath of fans when things go wrong, but the appointment of Moye's was very shrewd if not risky given our position at that time. He stabilised the club over 10 years and turned it from perennial relegation battlers to a steady 4-7th placed club with limited funds. RM was one of the most promising managers when he took him on had been touted by the Reds & Villa, and he really shone last season with fresh new tactics. This year we all know has gone severely tits up and his lack of managerial skill has been revealed to be sadly missing. BK has a difficult decision to jump early sack him with no one to come in, pay a large compensation package and still not be guaranteed safety. He has taken the risk of sticking with him, much to our annoyance, and will have to make the same call in the summer, sack or stay, I'm sure he knows the fans are not happy and will hopefully do the right thing for Everton Football Club. Whatever he does long term it needs change and the playing side needs rebuilding!

23 Mar 2015 10:07:24
Lets face it JCW, BK is a 'luvvy' a 'luvvies' crony and worst of all

he's all of the above and he runs our football club :(

he needs to grow a pair or get lost,

this club needs 'cojones'

ASAP!