Everton Banter Archive October 22 2015

 

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22 Oct 2015 20:01:50
While I'm still unsure on Martinez, first season loved him second season loathed him. Though that was me being fickle more than anything. Regardless of whether or not he goes on to be a success, he has done a lot of good. He certainly opened our eyes to a new way of playing and that the current group of players do deserve to play at this level. This highlighted some of the issues with Moyes where it seemed like, against better teams, that our players don't deserve to play on the same pitch as these players. Where it seemed we gave up without a fight, Martinez has certainly changed that. He has also integrated a lot of youth in the team, Barkley, Browning and Garbutt, all of whom where never given a chance by Moyes. Same with Stones who we bought along with the little round headed gem that is Brendan Galloway. I do feel he was at a loss either way on Saturday. He brought Stones and Coleman back in (which we wanted) and lost, now people are moaning that they shouldn't be back in. Yet if he hadn't put them back in, and we lost, people would moan we needed our best players back. It's impossible to win. Something that has happened under Roberto, though the whole League seems to be doing it, is booing. I did a post about it in depth saying I don't agree with it. Losing to Man City, boo, Man Utd, boo, it's like fans expect us to be like Barcelona and win every game 5-0. Booing Schweinsteiger, Pedro and Aguero, why? What did they do to deserve personal abuse when they go to take a corner or get subbed off? . Back to Roberto, yes, his team selection boggles the mind a lot, so frustrating. I'm not for him or against him, if you offered the chance to sack him right now, I'd say no. I just want to see how the season plans out. Unlucky vs City, hammered Chelsea, should of beat Liverpool and Swansea. Too many points dropped at home, 2 goals conceded away from home. Utd game was bad, we have Arsenal, who just beat Bayern Munich and Man Utd 2-0 and 3-0. Put 3 past Watford. I'm predicting a 4-0 loss personally but it won't bother me too much. We have very winnable games after that, I just worry a large portion of our fans are becoming a bit like Newcastle, expecting the world and when not given it go in to a state of anger. We had people calling for his head after the City game, which was down to our awful Goalkeeper above anything. Just, if we get beat by Arsenal, please lads, let's not start getting on everyone's back. It's a tough game, lose to 3 of the guaranteed top 4 this season, we cannot get too high expectations. We have a great team but it is not to the level of Arsenal or City. So, we lose we lose, it happens, they're a good team, don't rush in to anything. Just look at our next 10 fixtures, all very winnable. We've had a tough start to the season, get behind the team.

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22 Oct 2015 21:18:32
Please Moyes teams gave up without a fight. Yea right, that's why in Moyes first when Everton were buried to the bottom of the league and looked certain for relegation he kept them up. And more seasons to follow Moyes guided Everton to safety. Everton definitely did not give up without a fight under Moyes. If they did they would have been relegated long ago.

Players like Cahill, Carsley big Dunc gave up without a fight. Not in their blood or nature. I'd love to see you tell them that to their face Swan. Moyes didn't have the luxury that Martinez has. He inherited a squad and team that was in dire straits and turned them into a European contending team with very little financial debt.

Enter Martinez inherited a decent squad with money to spend. Moyes teams punched above their weight. They regularly finished the league higher than where they were placed in payments. As in if the players wages were the 10th highest in the league they would finish 5th or 6th. Certainly higher than wage bill compared to other teams. Therefore punching above their weight under Moyes.

Those young players you mentioned. Ever wondered why they are doing so well. Its because they were introduced at the right time. Moyes was working on bringing them through. Martinez was just lucky regards to the timing of his appointment and those players developments. It was Moyes who had them there in the first place. I don't think was interested in wasting his time with them.

Yes Moyes was paid well but he certainly done his job well. Inherited a club in ruins and left it in a far better place than he got. From bottom of the league to top 6 or 7.

On to Martinez, not convinced yet but he is growing on me. He certainly did open our eyes and he is doing a good job at the moment I think. Very annoying after one bad defeat people are giving out. I too won't be over bothered if we're bet by Arsenal. I think Martinez has a better squad than Moyes ever had. There's only one reason for that. Martinez is benefiting from Moyes spending 11 years at Everton and financially being fantastic over that time.

After all Martinez himself said he inherited a good squad and club from Moyes. Anything less than champions league and Martinez hasn't taken this team any further from Moyes.

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23 Oct 2015 03:10:51
I should have said against the big teams. Which is evident by the poor records away from home to Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd and Arsenal. The young players all JUST so happened to come through at the right time? . If you're good enough you're old enough. As Stones has shown, but Moyes preferred Heitinga, Barkley, Moyes preferred Neville and Hitzelsperger. Garbutt, Miyes preferred Hibbert left back. What young players did Moyes bring through? Bar Rooney, there is not one player who came through. Again with the luxury, it's not Martinez's fault he inherited a good squad. Would it honestly have been better to get everyone out the club and start fresh? . Moyes also had money to spend mate, Bilyaletdinov, Yakubu, Jelavic, Johnson, Beattie, Gueye, Heitinga and Howard. Yes he made some great signings but people harp on like he was living on scraps. 63m on just those players. Martinez does well it was all Moyes, Martinez struggles it's all Martinez. Sheedy also said Moyes never bothered with the kids, he had to be begged for him to buy Stones as he didn't rate him (like he didn't rate World Cup winner Mustafi and Spurs regular Eric Dier) . It's very convenient they were all magically ready a whole month after Moyes left. Or maybe, just maybe they were good enough and were getting ignored by a man who like Martinez, has his favourites and no matter what those players had to play.

I agree completely Moyes did very well but him taking all the credit for the good things going on at Everton at the moment is ludicrous imo.

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{Ed001's Note - also it should be pointed out that Moyes never really outperformed the wage bill, except on the year he clinched 4th spot. Everton always had one of the higher wage bills in the league under Moyes, 6th highest for almost his entire time. It is one of the reasons Everton struggled to invest in players, because the wage bill is so high it swallows up most of the club's money.}

23 Oct 2015 08:51:28
While you are right ED001, the reason Moyes was able to get us paying higher wages was because he was always astute in the transfer market. Season after season he bought in cheap and spld expensively. Stones will be another cash generator just like Arteta, Lescott, Fellaini, Rodwell etc there were a couple of players whereby we lost a little but overall he was very successful at buying/selling. Martinez certainly inherited a successful squad in comparisson to what Moyes inherited. M own view is that Moyes played football that he deserved more credit for. but yes against the top teams was quite negative with tactics and maybe the players did freeze. especially away from home. But to counter that view. we scored quite a few from set pieces and defended set pieces much better than we do now. I wonder if it would be possible to make a clone half way between the two of them so we play the more expansive football but defend better than we do now and still score from set pieces. nb we are the only premiership team not to score a set piece yet!

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{Ed001's Note - sorry that wasn't meant to be a dig at Moyes, just saying he wasn't really overachieving in terms of wages as was suggested. He clearly was overachieving, in terms of overall spending, but not as much as is made out. Shame to see him struggling in Spain, though I am sure there are not many Everton fans that are empathising with him after the way he left.}

23 Oct 2015 09:59:53
I like them both for different reasons Moyes saved us brought in stability and pushed us to a place where we now consider ourselves as a club trying to break into the top 4. Martinez has brought though some good talent and seems to be trying to transition an aging team for the future. Both have their weaknesses and both have their strengths. Tactically they are miles apart and both seem to get far too many draws for different reasons. Either way I think we will continue to be a top 10 team pushing towards the top 4 but unless we have a great season will just miss out. Without significant investment are we likely to improve to be a consistent top 4 team probably not. Are we likely to get investment in the near future probably not. As always with Everton we will be on a roller coaster of a season, we will all enjoy the ride while we are on it yet be slightly disappointed when its over. RM may surprise us but I doubt it, top half of the top 10 is my prediction for this season.

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{Ed025's Note - that could have been me writing that sa, I agree with it all mate..

23 Oct 2015 11:47:48
I can't see anyone giving Moyes ALL the praise in any comment just the praise he deserves. As you said your self Swan he done well. Why put him down then? I agree with everything sa90 said above the 2 manager's have their strengths and weaknesses.

No one is giving Moyes the praise when Martinez does well. As I said Martinez is doing good in my opinion. Although I'm waiting till the end of the season to make my mind up. On the flip side you say when things go bad Martinez gets the blame. Well is the current manager and Moyes got his fair share of stick. Too much at times I think.

Swan you seem to think its ok to say people are expecting Everton win 5 nil everytime like Barcelona when Martinez is the manager. Yet Moyes teams always gave up when they lose to I hate to say it superior teams.

I know Moyes left in a sour way. I wasn't that happy with that myself.

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23 Oct 2015 11:53:57
Roller coaster? More like rocket launches and crashes supporting Everton.

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23 Oct 2015 17:02:18
Degsypulford your like an angel to me. Your first comment above is 100% what I agree with. Its like you read my mind. Swan you made a list of so called flops. Heitinga got player of the season one or 2 seasons before he left of I'm not mistaken. Yakubu scored over 20 goals. Johnson and Jelavic were instant successes' although didn't keep it up.

Every manager is going to sign flops. Its inevitable, do a list of all the signings that Alex Ferguson got wrong and add up how much they cost. I bet there would be quite a few. What isn't inevitable with a manager is that he'll sign good players at a reasonable price. Which is what Moyes done as pointed out by Degsy.

Simple point Moyes improved the club and in a way as much as he could as he did say. He also said things that did belittle the club and I hate that he said them things. I bet he'd love be back at Goodison.

Some day in the future I'd like to see him here again with more of a flair to the team. No doubt he along with BK steered the club in the right direction. Both their predecessors were wrong people for the club. Not Royle or Smith but Walker thank god he didn't stay long. As for the previous chairman BK is like a god compared to him.

That's taking nothing away from Martinez. If he gets Everton into champions league territory he has improved things and fair play to him if he does. Otherwise the club is remaining static or even worse backwards. Club finishing 5th - 10th is certainly static. Maybe Moyes comment is right and that's as far as the club can go under current circumstances.

Maybe an injection of investment will be the only thing to get the club into champions league. It certainly would do no harm in this day and age of the premiership.

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23 Oct 2015 22:59:40
for me, am still not sure on rm, first season great last season awful, moyes first 2 season were similar as in done well then poor. but for me moyes was solid over all. we were there or there abouts for europe, so when you consider we were relegation fodder before he came, he done excellent.

rm remains to be seen, but the point that people make about moyes bottling it against the big teams were as rm goes for it, well my view is this, it's ok winning the top team but losing against the bottom is the same as winning bottom but losing against the top points wise.

now for me, we seem to win more against the big boys but don't win against the lesser teams under rm, where dm would lose more against the top teams but win more of the lesser teams. I could be wrong but that's how I see it now.

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22 Oct 2015 09:15:01
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Premier League Standouts

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