Everton Banter Archive December 22 2014

 

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22 Dec 2014 23:46:12
Okay, so I may be wrong, but just bear with me.

A few years ago, a man named Alan Pardew led a very fresh Newcastle United team to Europa League, and subsequently won himself the manager of the year award or something. The following year a very similar Newcastle team (minus the freshness) found themselves in the bottom half of the table.

Now. let's look at some facts that a few Everton fans won't want to face.
1) Even though teams get literally no money in competing, the Europa is still quite heavy and draining on teams. This is due to the traveling for the team, and the timing of the games. Ie thurday nights.

2)the Newcastle Transfer budget was similar to ours this season. The transfer method was also similar. Ie, not increasing squad numbers as much as adding a couple of quality players. This mainly down to the budget.

3) The Manager in both ours and Newcastle's case kept to the successful football from the previous year, without any PLAN B or tweaks to the tactics. Because of this, they were/are much easier to beat as opponents new what to expect.

4) Stars became/ are becoming unsettled to the extent of leaving.


So these are the similarities. I understand that some fans dislike it when we are compared to our geordie counterpart, but the fact is, if we don't change the football we play, and increase our squad numbers, we will forever be placed in the group of "almost had it" teams. Sich like Villa/Newcastle and Spurs (who by the way are still playing better than us atm). Also notice that I haven't mentioned Liverpool, and that's because they're rubbish and will always live in our shadows.


Also another thing, Martinez doesn't do defending very well. Moyes did it amazingly decent. And the fact that last year was so good, could call in to question the fact that because Moyes's stamp was still on the team, we were slightly better off in defense.

Am not saying RM has been found out, but he definitely needs to get his head out of his arse and stop thinking he's got 11 Messi's on his team, because some of these players are very old school still. And sometimes smashing loads of crosses into the box and a few (A FEW) long balls will probably get you some more goals and win games. because at the end of the day, the only perfect goal, is a goal that counts.

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Love the post QB

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That is the best post for ages. I will back it up by saying about 8 years ago we were 12 ish games in and we had not won a single game. We had about 5 points and were rooted at the bottom of the table. This was essentially the same team that Moyes had taken into the Champions league. We then managed a home draw against the high flying Chelsea who were top by a mile and our season turned around. I still don't know what was different for the first 10 games and I suspect Moyes did not know either. I also suspect Roberto does not know why we can't defend. We did have a run of clean sheets a few games ago when Stones was in the team. let's hope for his quick return. Regarding the long ball situation, althought I prefer to have McCarthy than Fellaini as a footballer, Manchester United proved his worth a few times this season when they were a goal down and pushed him forwards in order to grab a goal. They have taken 19 points out of 21 in their last 7 games. I know this will upset a few fans me pointing this out, but I would rather win the league with a lump up front than get relegated with Messi style football.

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22 Dec 2014 22:35:51
Martinez out now. Any manager who takes us below the red side of the city and into their rightful place in the league (ie bottom half) deserves to go.especially when you think of all the money we wasted (sorry I mean they have wasted) Just think for all our troubles, we are only a point and a place behind them. Perspective.

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Why are you worrying about Liverpool? What different does it make to how awful we are?

I couldn't give a monkeys how they are doing. The fact that they have been complete garbage and are still above us shows you how pathetic we have been his season.

We are Everton
#Wedontwinanything
That's what we do
Martinez Out

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{Ed025's Note - that just the way local rivalry works mike, its the same with utd and city, celic and rangers etc mate..

I am not worried about them at all Therealmike. It just seems to take my mind off my own troubles for a short while. But thanks mate for bringing me back down to earth. Got to go. Time to slash my wrists or something!

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{Ed025's Note - its never that bad degsy...just tap your head with the blunt end of a rag mans trumpet..

22 Dec 2014 22:12:31
Well, I didn't see too much in Stoke City tonight that - all things being equal - makes me overly concerned about our match with them on Boxing Day. That's if we perform well, but that's a massive "if" imho given our recent performances and results.
Bojan and the pacy Assaidi look to have something about them, but their defenders are prone to fouls by being over-physical. Besides, referees do not punish their holding and grappling in the box when they defend corner kicks and free kicks and crosses. That'll not be a problem, as RM clearly doesn't believe in putting in good corners, free kicks, or crosses - everthing has to be from tiki-taka open play ;-)
Anyway, we are nowhere as effective or efficient as a team, let alone individually, as Chelsea and I can see us struggling and letting Stoke do a number on us.
Our players have to deliver on the pitch and RM must set up the team to do that. Like another poster, I can see many in the crowd reacting to another poor performance and/or bad result by loudly voicing their disgruntlement - even to the point of booing and jeering.

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Yeah, but remember they won't be playing Chelsea. They will be playing us. The team with a defense like a broken sieve. lol

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22 Dec 2014 21:27:36
I am watching stoke v Chelsea game and one thing I have noticed Chelsea's cm get the ball and look to drive fwd with the ball. Barry will never do this, I know we played this system last year and it worked, but maybe it might be better to play Barkley alongside Barry, McCarthy or Besic like against QPR. At least Barkley will take the ball fwd and it makes the other team back off and drop deeper. This allowing Naismith to play the no10 role.

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{Ed025's Note - chelsea play totally different to us robbie, with pace and energy, we look so pedestrian at times..

Ed025: pedestrian? Sometimes we might as well be stationary given that the ball doesn't get moved forward! We can only dream of competing with teams like Chelsea and ManCity - not just in terms of results, but more so their application, winning mentality, self-belief, and - of course - sheer ability.

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{Ed025's Note - very true sid, to be honest i dont feel we have the squad to play tika-taka football, the likes of jags and distin are typical english centre halves (and i know distin is french), they dont look comfortable on the ball when they are under pressure, add to that the speed with which we move the ball from front to back is far too slow, the likes of lukaku is suffering and getting stick, but his strengths are getting in behind the last man and running the channels, without the guile and skill of someone who will feed him he will never flourish, we have an abundance of hard working defensive midfielders but are short of a game changer in midfield, maybe ross could be that guy, but he is not at present..just my view mate..

22 Dec 2014 22:48:10
And money Sid, don't forget the money. We make a big deal of the money we spent on Luk, but that's small change to these teams. Why are they the best? Because they can afford the best. Simple really.

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Woburnblue: I agree about the money - and I mentioned this in a different thread.

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I don't know why we changed from the qpr line up to be honest.with basic cleaning up infront of back 4,and barkley driving forward from midfield,we looked a far better team.Bobby can't afford to be picking favourites like Barry, when he is in a results game. One of the reasons I stopped watching England, was the fact every manager pick the same players, I.e. Gerrard, lampard, Terry, ferdinand and so on,when they were not even playing well.it's also a shame that basic is so good at defensive midfield. Having been a centre half most of his career,he could the the ball playing defender we have been crying out for. Him and stones at centre half would be great.

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22 Dec 2014 20:19:50
How many goalkeepers - like our Howard and Robles - seem to be following the Count Dracula approach: terrified of crosses!

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22 Dec 2014 18:53:48
Martinez making statements such as we can still get top 4 are a silly statement to make. While mathematically possible, but realistically not. Making top 6 is mathematically possible but realistic not unless performance improves.

Has anyone noted the similarities between Martinez and Brendan Rodgers. Both have one good season to start. Both don't seem to have a plan B or C. both have problems defending. Both have problems scoring. Both dragging their clubs down the league, not listening to fans concerns. They must both use the same coaching manual. In Martinez case I feel he is so obsessed with the European scene to advance there to add to his cv in order to be considered for future coaching when the time comes.

Both clubs need a new spine to the team, goalkeeper, 2 centre backs and proven goal scorer. In Evertons case Lukaku money was wasted which I have remarked on in the past.
Garbutt deserves moving to first choice with Baines to other position or bench.
Any choices as successor to Martinez.

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An interesting original post with some intriguing points and questions.
I don't want RM to go - he can still get us back on track imho, but needs to start proving that PDQ - and I can't think of any available alternative managers/coaches that are realistically available. That's not to say there aren't any, but I just can't think who they are at present.

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Not sure, but what about Tony Pulis? Might seem a strange choice this 1 but but the guy organises his defence very well & played some damn good football whilst in charge at Palace including outplaying us on our own turf last season! Maybe I'm just desperate or in panic mode after our sudden sharp descent in form!

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23 Dec 2014 02:21:51
Yes zacki, neil warnock outplayed us on our own turf this season too, we should get him in aswell!

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22 Dec 2014 18:42:17
So, Jagilelka (and others) are stating that we've underperformed this season. It's good that they're owning up to this - but what else could they say?
So, the players and coaches are working hard on the training ground to make sure we play better - but what else would we expect?
So, we've had some poor refereeing decisons go against us - but we've had a few go our way and we've ridden our luck on a few occasions this season.
So, we're respectful of opposing sides - but there's no need to over-praise them and embolden them before we play them!
So, we go into every fixture and every competition trying to win - but what's the point if we don't do that?
All the positivity in the world and all of the self-avowed pre-match determination counts for nothing imho if we don't actually deliver results on the pitch. If we can win by playing entertaining football then so much the better, but a few scrappy 1-0 victories in the next few fixtures would be just as welcome - and unexpected, I'm afraid to say, given our current showings.
:-(

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To be fair Sid, they've been doing this all season, yet they still haven't made the change on the pitch, which is more worrying than their comments

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22 Dec 2014 18:16:23
We don't have the money to compete with wealthier clubs for the world's best players - and couldn't attract them anyway, especially without regular Champions League football.
We have suffered our fair share of injuries - but it's just that: "our fair share", as other clubs also have key players out injured.
I've heard it said by countless top managers and coaches that drilling a team in its defensive duties is very straightforward and is the first thing to get right.
I've also heard it said that the one thing that disturbs defenders is opponents with pace.
And, of course, whatever the defensive strengths - and allowing for occasional mistakes - there are always those worldies that opponents sometimes score and just can't be stopped.
However - and notwithstanding all of the above - it's down to RM to prepare our players and get the best performances out of them whatever the circumstances. Professional football is a results business first and foremost (it surely has to be considering the money at stake) and (I hate to say this) an entertainment business second. We have to be playing winning football in the Premier League rather than being acclaimed as great entertainers in the Championship. If we can win playing expansive, entertaining, attacking footbal then great - but we have to be winning.
I want RM to succeed, but he needs to do better (results-wise this season) to prove himself as "the right one, the bright one". This is another season when the faltering of other clubs left a good opportunity to finish in the Champions League places, but we just seem incapable of believing that we could be up there. As another poster has stated: RM - wake up and smell the coffee!

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{Ed025's Note - no argument from me on that one sid..

I agree with almost everything except "our fair share of injuries". We seem to have had just about every outfield player injured for at least a few games. It feels like we have had more injuries than anyone else. Coleman, Jags, Stones, Distin, Baines, Osman, Barkley, McGeady, Mirallas, Naismith, Lukaku, McCarthy have all had injuries for more than a couple of games. I think Chelsea have had 2 all season? And I am sure I have missed a couple.

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22 Dec 2014 17:41:55
I'm not criticising what any player (past, present, and future) does re publishing an autobiography, but if I'd been a professional player (some chance!) and I'd published an autobiography (even less chance!), then I'd like to think that personally I'd have done one of two things:
(1) if published as a book, then given all profits to charity - perhaps the Everton former players' foundation; or
(2) published it as a series of instalments in the the Everton matchday magazine/programme or in the Evertonian magazine. Maybe the club wouldn't like the "warts and all" stories, but they'd entertain the fans and other readers!

What do others think about how players handle these biographical looks?

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I would have published it once I'd retired from playing!

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22 Dec 2014 17:25:13
Just a thought on the home match against Stoke City this coming Friday (Boxing Day).
We played last Saturday afternoon, so - even allowing for the players travelling back from Southampton - they will have had a decent period to rest, recover, and prepare.
Stoke, on the other hand, have a tough fixture against Chelsea on Monday evening before coming to Everton later in the week.
I'll be interested to see how they perform against Chelsea and also which players they then select against Everton. Considering that we couldn't beat Southampton's team of reserves and academy players, it doesn't bode well if Stoke have a team of battle-hardened Premier League players against us.
Whatever happens against Stoke City, imho the trip away to Newcastle United two days later (Sunday afternoon) will be a real test of how resilient our squad is - both physically and mentally. If we get turned over in either - or both - matches, then I will not tolerate any RM spin about tiredness, referees, "should have", "could have", or "what if".
In the past, I've posted that I'll support any player who has the honour of wearing the royal blue shirt, as long as he's giving 100% for the cause. This is still the case and even though it's clear that some of our players lack skill, application, confidence or even just luck (!), I have yet to doubt their honest commitment (however ineffective they are). If a player is out of form (whatever the reason might be), then I expect RM to be ruthless and select the better available alternative - e.g. Stones or Alcaraz for Distin.
Diatribe over - that feels better!
Once a blue, always a blue.

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Another good post Cowpat. If certain players are not playing well then they deserve to be dropped. That is to say Baines for Garbutt, Lukaku for Kone and Distin for Stones. The likes of Barry and Howard should be looking over their shoulders although much depends upon whether McCarthy and Mirallas will be fit. Robles isn't good enough which means a new keeper should be our priority in January.

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Don't think Martinez has it in him to be ruthless. Hope I am proved wrong.

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{Ed025's Note - if he does not have that trait tedster, then the players will walk all over him mate, and thats a recipe for disaster..

22 Dec 2014 09:03:46
If everyone is fit and Bobby makes the changes all of us want him to make, we'll be fine, Back to winning ways, Our subs bench could be Howard, Distin, Barry, Osman, Pienaar, and Eto'o. Over 200 years of experience. It would be like a load of Twirlies at the bus stop on a Thursday morning going to the post office for their pensions. So let's not panic, I'm sure he'll get it right in the end.

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Do you go to the game and watch the same garbage that I watch?
What winning ways? Like West Ham where we were lucky?
Keeping the ball for 65% of a game means sod all if all you are doing is passing along the back line again and again. The idea that we try and draw the opposition out is laughable when, as soon as they do come out and press, we panic or have no idea how or where to make a decent pass.

We used to have a go at Moyes for training the ability out of strikers. Well Martinez has managed to destroy Baines and Coleman as attacking options as well as making the whole middle of the team so nervous a gang of school kids could take us.

And yes it is down to Martinez. He is the coach and he is the one responsible for our 'style' of non-playing.

The players still have the talent and skill and once or twice in a match we can see it. But they are under such a confining method of playing style that their willingness to express themselves more often has been trained out of them.

Getting all the players back is not enough (and not totally needed) if we are going to play the same way all the time. Moyes was criticised for trying to 'lock down' a one nil lead with half the game to go and deservedly so. But now we don't even have that luxury.

With the squad we have we should be playing much better football (not relying on stats at the end of a game to judge how we performed). We should be able to adapt when things are going awry. We should be bringing on subs to change things (it was a disgrace to not at least try and change things with subs). The fans in the ground can see how bad things are. The players are playing with handcuffs on and getting nowhere fast.

Martinez is the manager and he is to blame. Directors, officials and coaching staff should be putting him right. He should get and be willing to use a plan b, c and d when the need arises. He should use the squad and not rely on anyone who is out of form, carrying an injury or just no longer willing to try for the Blue shirt.

And don't bother bringing Gerard back. We have enough substitute wingers and wing backs. Another one on the wage bill is not needed and not wanted to draw attention away from our real problems.

I said a good few weeks back that we were playing relegation football and since then it has got worse.

Boxing Day, if the result is poor, may be the first time in 46 years that I would be willing to boo at the end of the game. well probably not :-)
But if we survive this season and the football stays the same then there will be a couple of really good seats going in the Paddock next season.

I feel sorry for the fans who made the effort this season. I think for the first 4-5 matches we were actually sold out. Then they had to sit through that!

Martinez! Wake up and smell the Chang, you are at Everton now!!

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BlueMacPK4: your post is a good read, mate.

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BlueMac, Post was tongue in cheek, I do go to the games and if you'd read my posts on Saturday evening you'd know how I felt, As I say Wigan - Everton I just can't tell the difference, changes are needed.

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I said when Moyes went that he had done a fantastic job for us on a negative budget. When Walter Smith left, we had an aging squad filled with pretty much average to poor players. Moyes got them playing to a system. It might not have been pretty at first, but slowly over the next few seasons he brought in players with a bit more quality. He also bought in cheap and sold expensively. We made profit on lots of players. All the time it was reinvested into the squad. It says something when players like Felli and Baines were wanted by Manchester United. Coleman was linked to Arsenal. Arteta went to Arsenal. Yet Moyes still seemed to dig out gems like John Stones and at the same time start blooding the likes of Barkley. When Martinez came in, a few people were really cutting with their comments to me when I suggested Moyes had done a great job andd we should show some respect. When he made some comments about signing Baines, I started to think these people were right and he had not done such a good job. Especially when we signed Lukaku. However, this season has started to show my fears about Martinez. He took an aging squad (albeit a good one) and has added players that in my opinion are inferior to the ones we already had (with one or two exceptions). I do not think the following players have improved our squad: Robles, Alcaraz, Kone, McGeady and possibly Barry and Besic. I accept that we had a good season out of Barry and also that Besic may develop into a good player. But the others are just filling the squad with squad players. We need first team players not squad players. I also accept that Lukaku and McCarthy are good signings. but we had to pay top dollar on these. When you see Swansea with Bony and Southampton with Pelle both at a fraction of the price, it makes you think. I don't want to get on Martnez's or the teams back, but I am seriously worried about the tactics and the quality of signings.

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{Ed025's Note - moyes for me stayed a couple of years too long degsy, he done a good job as you say on a limited budget..but to be honest i could not wait to see the back of him when he went mate..

 
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