Everton Banter Archive May 19 2016

19 May 2016 23:04:02
In reference to below posts. BlueJohnUns you don't need to dispel any myth about Allardyce or Pulis. Your obviously missing the point. The point is they are good managers without winning anything. You criticise Alldardyce for having a lot of losses yet later on criticise Moyes for drawing too much. Well the consequence of going for it unfortunately is you end up losing your fair share of them rather than drawing. Especially when you have a squad like Sunderland have.

So which is it? Moyes is wrong for having a lot of draws or Allardyce is wrong for going for a win and inevitably losing some of them? Allardyce hasn't had a proper spell at a team since Bolton. Only team he has in any way is WH and they finished no higher this season after spending a lot of money since he left. Are they better off now? Sunderland definitely are.

Didn't he finish in 4th with Bolton after taking them up from Championship? Newcastle were sacking managers for fun when he was there. He didn't get near enough time.

Pulis isn't the most attractive style of play but he gets a job done and was the first manager to figure out how to beat us 3 seasons ago. Everyone followed his example on how to beat us after that. Didn't see any foreign manager figuring that out.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph. A Klopp influence. He certainly lifted the spirits with them since he took over and is a very positive person overall.

Svenny I don't know where your getting them "" quotes about Koeman from? I didn't say them anyway. Simply making the point he is a good manager who hasn't won anything. 2 summers he lost big players and didn't lose the dressing room. Our own manager signed big players and lost the dressing room. Big difference there.

Koeman knew how to manage the squad and introduce new players and get them to perform to the best of their ability. Can't ask anything more from a manager imho.

20 May 2016 11:07:50
Couldn't agree more mate. Can't understand the negativity that he attracts.
You only have to take a look at where Big Sams ex clubs (except West Ham ) are now to appreciate what a great job he does . As soon as he was appointed Sunderland boss I expected them to stay up. Loved his comment about John Stones too. No doubt he'd turn him into a much better defender.

20 May 2016 11:07:59
1. Moyes IS wrong for going for draws

2. Allardyce cannot get consistency out of his teams

3. Finishing 4th one season doesn't make him Jesus

4. Pulis has his teams playing dull unattractive football and I wouldn't pay to watch them.

5. Crediting Pulis as the man worked out Martinez is not very rational. I'm pretty sure he'd lost one or two games before then.

6. Even at our worst we beat WBA anyway when Pulis was there so that's a pretty poor argument.

20 May 2016 11:07:11
I didn't get involved in the first discussion, but just to agree with NBTB on some points. it is very easy to have a picture in your mind of a manager and how he works and his philosophy. Then remember successes and failures by him. My own view on this is that the whole club has to have everything fall into place and even the greatest manager in the world will not win things with bad luck. The infrastructure has to be put in place prior to him joining.

Scouting, youth policies, contract policies, even age limits on players and even how the players personalities interact. A great example of this and when everything comes together is Leicester City this season. Raniery is getting all the credit and he does deserve some. However, things were pult in place long before he arrived. Another example is Sir Alf Ramsey won us the world cup, yet was sacked 6 years later.

Harry Catterick was sacked by our famous club. The manager has to be in the right place at the right time, but the rest has to be already pretty well sorted. And that's where I get worried. I feel we have lots of these things sorted and Moyes had the infrastructure in place. I think Martinez came in and changed quite a bit and we now have a very unbalanced squad.

Moyes had a general youth policy and when he arrived, overhauled it adding plenty of youth. He continued with that and left a squad with a few older players that needed replacing within the next 2 years. Namely Cahill, Osman and Pienaar. Martinez arrived and replaced Cahill with Lukaku.

But Osman and Pienaar were never replaced. They just continued ageing and are still part of the squad. In fact he added Alcaraz, Kone and Barry to the squad. 3 players on their last legs. So we now have a first team squad with 5 players on their last legs. We also never effectively replaced Howard and we have our 2 most promising youngsters (Lukaku and Stones) being courted by just about every other club in Europe.

Back to the point. give me an organising, effective, future looking manager anytime. not one who comes in, makes a couple of big signings and looks to this season and not much beyond.

20 May 2016 11:21:43
Hi BlueJohn . I think Bolton, Blackburn, Newcastle and Sunderland fans would disagree with you about Big Sam mate. If he was foreign he'd have a much better reputation.

20 May 2016 15:18:35
Exactly Garyo. No one called him Guaranga for finishing 4th only you BJU's. Point was when he got time to develop Bolton he brought them from championship to 4th in premiership. Name another manager who done that. You don't seem to recognise what he done to achieve. Just put him down by sarcastically calling him Jesus for finishing 4th. If it had been Utd or Chelsea it would not of been much of an achievement. It was Bolton therefore a lot more complicated.

Since he left Bolton what have they done? Where are they now?

With Pulis you mention we were beaten once or twice before he beat us with Palace. True but he set the trend of HOW to beat us the end of that season. Since then everything has gone belly up for Martinez. It was Pulis who worked out how to beat Martinez system. Every team followed suit after that and Martinez had no plan B. Wasn't a foreign manager that worked it out.

Comparing Pulis with 2 different teams isn't rational. He doesn't have the same players at WB as Palace. So saying we beat him at WB doesn't mean he's a worse manager. Degsypulford makes a good point that all clubs are different. Which goes back to Allardyce having time with Bolton to get his structures in place. Same applies to Pulis and every manager imho.

If Moyes doesn't go for draws then inevitably some are going to be lost and still he gets blamed.

Are Palace and WH better off now after Pulis and Allardyce have left? Palace finished in 10th after Pulis took them over near the end of the season. They got him in to stop them getting relegated. Not only did he do that but he got them to 10th. Ok for a bad manager.

20 May 2016 16:55:02
So you would want these two managers at Everton?

20 May 2016 17:53:55
No, didn't say that. Was simply commenting on managers don't need to of won something to be a good manager. Wouldn't be totally against them either. Who knows what they could do at Everton? Would be a unique situation for them to be in compared to where they were before.

Said already Koeman would be my first choice.

20 May 2016 18:30:46
Each unto their own. They're not my cup of tea but where would we be if we all thought the same ;) good debate though.

20 May 2016 21:05:52
Feelings mutual BJU's. I enjoy a good debate and always respect other peoples opinion. As you say it would be a boring world if we all thought the same.

19 May 2016 21:34:42
It really pees me off to constantly be told we are a small club and will not be of interest to a top manager. WTF, we have history, success is in our DNA. We can still attract big crowds and could match most others for attendances with a bigger stadium. Villa go down and it's oh how terrible a club the size of Villa relegated. Newcastle go down and it's the same. Mention Everton and the pundits all say well I am not sure Pellegrini, or Mourhino, or whoever will see them as a big enough club. Now BBC gossip quotes that Koeman not interest in us as he thinks he can get a bigger club in twelve months' time. Well Mr Morishi I guess we will know soon just how big you want us to be by who you take on as manager. Money talks. Even the smallest club can look big if the coffers are there to spend. Please don't get a second rate manager with little or no success just because he can manage on ten bob. We have lived in the shadows of the reds for long enough. Let the worm turn and NSNO mean something again. Moan over lol COYB.

{Ed025's Note - nice moan though nick..

19 May 2016 21:54:08
Good post Nick, it's due I'm afraid down to the current generation who accept what I as an oldie will never be satisfied with.
Nil Satis? Either drop it or adopt it.

{Ed025's Note - lets hope we can revitalize it this season mushy..

19 May 2016 22:03:53
I feel your passion Nick and I agree.

It might just be me, but I have a feeling that Mr Moshiri would have been thinking about a new Manager, and may have even picked his target (not targets) way before Bobby was sacked.
He's very quiet and I for one love that, it proves he's not just on an ego trip.

20 May 2016 11:05:35
Nick I'm sure if Everton had gone down people would have been saying the same as they are about Villa (not so much Newcastle because they've been down before) . Maybe more so as we have spent more seasons in the top flight than any other club and are now one of only 6 clubs to have been in the prem every season.
But we do need a sense of perspective. Even with Moshiri on board, we as a club are 8th in the prem on pretty much any measure that matters: average attendance, 8th; % off stadium filled at matches, 11th; turnover, 8th; wage bill, 8th; value of club, 7th; transfer values, 8th; wealth of major shareholders, 8th (we were 2nd bottom before Moshiri) .

Account for other big European clubs and we are a 'top 20 in the world' team. That is reality, and it's a positive reality! But we are not one of the very biggest clubs. Even with a new stadium, we can't "match anyone" for attendances - far from it. London clubs have a huge advantage on that. We can't outspend Utd, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs or Liverpool - far from it. No manager is interested that we were a great side who won things 30 years ago.

In the 80s, no manager cared that Blackpool had a great side in the 50s. It's where we are today that matters. And by rights we should get one of the top 20 managers in the world. Anything much better is showing ambition, especially since most of the very best ones are newly installed at clubs. Who are the top 20 managers? That's hard. Pep is obviously a great manager but not because he won the league with Bayern, who have twice as much financial clout as their nearest rival. Pellegrini is at the 2nd richest club in the country and 5th richest in the world, who finished 4th in both league and champs league.

That's OK, no more. Favre has massively overachieved with every club he's been at, including getting champs league with a team who were bottom when he took over. That shows quality. Koeman is not in that bracket for me. He was pants at Valencia, he was ok at Ajax, he's done well at Southampton, but so did their previous managers. I'm more convinced by de Boer, although less so if he's not accompanied by Stam and Bergkamp.

It looks like Emery wants to stay at Sevilla, which is a shame - he is without a doubt one of the top ten managers in the world. Mourinho clearly is top 3 in the world and as such is looking for one of the biggest 5 or 6 clubs in the world. We are Everton, we are proud, but realistically, we are not that by any measure.

20 May 2016 11:07:25
It is interesting that these "pundits" are the ones not being offered manager jobs. Hence ending up on TV.

19 May 2016 20:45:32
WTF is going on. Get well soon David Ginola. Love you man.

19 May 2016 17:49:12
is offering 9/ 2 for moyes, what's going on? fdb fav, then moyessuppose it cbe worse;pellegrini, oniel, howe, .

19 May 2016 18:08:52
Which bookie? I'm seeing Dr Boer, Koeman, Pellegrini, Favre, Moyes.

19 May 2016 14:51:26
When lukaku goes this summer I seriously think we should go in for Michy Batshuayi, looks like West Ham are interested and if they get him I think he might be one of the signings of the season, just like payet last year, can't be having another Marseille player robbed off us.

19 May 2016 15:01:21
Get Shut of rom. the judas and top moaner.

19 May 2016 15:22:34
This is the guy that has had pretty poor service and still managed a shed load of goals. Oh and when did he become a judas?

19 May 2016 16:32:30
Regardless if rom stays or goes we need quality to push on. id try for lacazette from Lyon first. if rom goes try for lacazette and batshuayi. if during pre season, certain players aren't deemed good enough, i. e Niasse, then try using them as sweeteners in deals.

19 May 2016 17:35:54
Well said sa90.

19 May 2016 14:27:00
I can at least watch the cup final with the consolation, that not being there, played a vital role, in ridding our club, of the worst manager in our history. His leavle of self delusion would have been funney, had it not been so destructive.

19 May 2016 14:45:26
we all need to forget about him now and move on mate, its in the past, posters slating him every day isn't banter, its just crap and should be forgotten.

19 May 2016 15:10:21
Getting knocked out could have been the best thing to ever happen to us, as painful as it was.
Cruel to be kind.

19 May 2016 15:10:21
Getting knocked out could have been the best thing to ever happen to us, as painful as it was.
Cruel to be kind.

19 May 2016 15:10:21
Getting knocked out could have been the best thing to ever happen to us, as painful as it was.
Cruel to be kind.

19 May 2016 15:23:53
Got it the first time Frank 😃.

19 May 2016 15:32:28
Hmm, wasn't meant to post it 3 times, but best to be safe than sorry :)

19 May 2016 08:35:01
What a great day
I was driving into work this morning for some reason radio city was playing recordings of Liverpool fans and Ian Rush saying what they believe the score would be Rush said 3 1 to the Reds 😩!
They then played 'the greatest day' by take that

Priceless 😬😬😬😬😬.

19 May 2016 09:28:53
Vic

Hang on a minute mate, Liverpool ladies hammered the 'mackem' gals last night didn't they?

19 May 2016 09:42:53
You can't beat a bit of Take That to brighten up your day.

19 May 2016 05:50:22
Emery has told the times he would be more than happy to talk to everton.

19 May 2016 05:58:53
Do you think he will look at the squad and say, "ooh you are awful but I like you". Sorry you have to be of certain age for that one.

19 May 2016 06:02:19
And I would be more than happy if he got the chance.

19 May 2016 06:14:28
Get him in if there is any substance in this He is a top top manager.