Everton Banter Archive June 18 2018

18 Jun 2018 23:16:15
If we get rid of 12-13 players (as reported) do we not risk throwing the baby out with the bath water?

Are we missing the possibility of Silva getting some of those considered ‘dead wood’ playing again?

We never replaced the goal threat of Lukaku last summer and struggled but have Tosun and Walcott. I hope whoever we sign is to replace those who can no longer perform at the highest level or to free up the wage bill of those not justifying the money and not just because of a dip in form of some players. We still need cover positions and need a squad. The change in playing style may be what we need more than 5-6 new players.

Do footballers become rubbish overnight? Sure we have picked up players considered surplus at other clubs who have done well for us.

19 Jun 2018 08:02:09
Bluereason3, we will not be getting rid of 12 or 13 senior players. The likes of Williams and other older players are unlikely to be offered a contract anywhere else that is anywhere near the value of the contract we gave him at Everton. So all these players on huge wages will probably think that it is in their interests to just let their contracts run down and turn up for training every week. I accept that one or two might choose to take a drop in wage, but when it is your last job in the sport, you think of your family and wages. I also accept that some kids will be released. this has already happened. but this does not free up loads of cash because they are not earning much on the wage bill. Everton seem to have let loads of players slip though their fingers in similar fashion to this over the years and these players have turned out to be great players later on. So we need to be careful what we do here. You are right about Lukaku. he should not have been allowed to go until Giroud had signed. Big mistake that caused us major problems. Re the other fine players you mention. yes some might be a dip in form I agree. But the squad is already unbalanced in 2 ways. Me and Swan disagreed about this 3/ 4 years ago. In my opinion we have loads of kids and then loads of players around 30 years old or older. We have precious few experienced players in their prime. ie 25 - 29 year old players. Certainly not as many as all the top 6 clubs. We also have only a couple of left footed players who demand first team action. We play right footed players on the left! We also never replaced our end to end players of Pienaar and Osman. Ones who work with the fullbacks. People have been saying I am negative, but I have tried to just point out the inadequacies of our squad. I am not saying we have crap players nor that we should get rid of loads. But I am saying that the squad overall is imbalanced in 2 ways ie age and left side. We also rely almost totally on Coleman for any overlapping fullback work these days. as was shown when he was injured. We were very poor without him. Of course whilst we talk about our plans for getting rid of players and who we will sign. remember that the top 6 and other nation's teams are looking for quality players everywhere. If I was a top 6 club I would enquire about Coleman. Whilst we are looking for other positions he and maybe Lookman could be interesting other clubs? That is just a thought and I have no inside knowledge, but it is often like a bucket with a hole. While you pour water in. it seeps out at the bottom. As happened with Barkley and Lukaku…. our 2 top scorers at the time. People said we would not miss them but we found ourselves in the bottom 3 last season for long periods!

19 Jun 2018 08:12:30
We can definitely afford to get rid at least 13 players without it affecting the core of the squad.

For me Kev, Garbutt, Besic, Niasse, Cuco, McCarthy, Williams, Bolasie, Rooney, Galloway, Bowning, and Pennington could go without impacting the first 11. Probably next summer you would also see Baines and Jags come to the end or nearing it at least.

That frees up space for the youth to get a chance and maybe 3 additions.

However, we have a good 11 for the first team already and so panic buying isn't needed. We can take our time to get the right players.

The squad we have now is good enough for 7th but the real progress is not in our position in the league it's in getting a competitive growing squad with football that has the ability over time to get us into challenging the teams above us.

Bring it on.

19 Jun 2018 08:51:50
Whilst we need to lose a number of players there is no pressure on us to do it in one window. All Brands said was that the squad was too big to manage, he never said we had to lose 12 players in a month. So if this can take place over the next 3 windows, then a more measured approach will ensure that players are properly assessed by the manager before they are let loose.

Of course there are some standout players that can leave now due to age and wages like Rooney and Williams.

As Degsy said, there is a lack of balance to the first 11, but that can be fixed. Although we won’t see another Bainarr combo like before and finding someone like Coleman to cover his injuries should he have one is almost impossible as that guy will walk into any team in the world in his position, so to ask for two and keep them both happy for Everton is too much to expect.

I’m also not buying into this sell to buy label that the press has put on us as if it’s a financial restraint harking back to the old days. I’m pretty sure that’s been taken out of context and that if the right player was available we would work to get him for the new manager, separately from anyone leaving the club.

The WC is slowing the summer recruitment down as it always does. Add to that the need to assess the squad. No need to panic, but every need to be patient.

COYB.

19 Jun 2018 09:00:08
The fault (if any) was in Mr Moshri's apparent lack of good advice when he first took over, this resulted in us paying over the odds in fees and wages, that unfortunately led us to where we are now. Some of the supposed 12 we are rumoured to need to trim the Squad by may well remain. As mentioned perhaps the likes of Williams would get nowhere near the income he gets here so would choose to stay picking up money for nothing and no doubt there will be some (surplus players) feel the same. Others though may well come good under Silva's coaching, you never know, Silva's weakness in the Premiership is retaining the Teams under his custodianship, consistency. If he can go that one step further, we may well have a good Management/ Coaching Team.

19 Jun 2018 09:16:23
BJU, I agree that we can afford to get rid of this number of player. My post was more about how difficult it is to do logistically. Players at the end of their careers are happy to stay put even if the club don't want them sometimes. Shifting players out might not be easy. Added to which, the World Cup is on for 3 weeks when agents and players are difficult or impossible to negotiate with and the transfer window finishes 2 days earlier this year. So after the World Cup, players like a little holiday and leave their agents negotiating. The problem is that there is less than 2 weeks to tie things up so I really cannot see more than 2 or 3 senior players leaving and 2 or 3 coming in. It is paramount in my view that we get a senior center back this window. It is also paramount that we have better full back cover than Martina. If either full backs pick up an injury we are weak in cover as also in center backs. We also need a left sided midfielder. Baines has also probably this season if he lasts that long. Yes players do last longer these days with fitness levels, but you can see he is slowing up. Jags has done amazing to keep going but surely at 36 is not top 6 Premiership standard? I hope that looks more positive than recent posts. but it is what I believe we need to get near the level we achieved last season. It is a big ask and I hope you are all right about Allardyce and his negative tactics. I am not so sure on that one but like you say we will see.

19 Jun 2018 12:40:21
We sold 12 players last summer.

I wouldn't, as stated previously, expect us to do the same this summer. As I've also stated Brands and Silva expect to reduce the squad over the next two or three windows.

I think your expectations are unrealistic over wanting all of them out in this window and for us to be challenging the top 6. Of course Jags is not top 6 and there are others there too that aren't of that quality. But that is not what we should expect this season.

We have potential understudies in Robinson for LB and Kenny for RB and I would like to see them given a chance. Plus you can't have two 1st team starters for each position. You have your main player for that position and one to challenge or cover them usually a younger player.

I would like to see a CB who is vocal, a Striker and a No8 come in.

Everywhere else we have a player or young player to see if they can develop. Lookman, Walcott, Vlasic, Dowell and maybe Bolasie but Sig who can do a job there if we change things up. But these can all rotate from left to right.

We have Mori, Keane, Holgate and Jags as CB but if we do get another we will probably need to get rid of one. Probably Jags.

We've got enough DCM but upfront we need someone to challenge Cenk. DCL needs time to develop in the position.

So we have options already but let's be patient over players coming in and out. We have the chance to sell players upto the close of that particular leagues window not ours remember. It'll happen but just don't expect everything now.

19 Jun 2018 13:13:48
Dunno if your post is aimed at me BJU? but I never said I wanted all those players out. in fact I said it is unrealistic to expect us to shift more than 2 or 3 senior players out. because of their contracts. Jags won't want to go anywhere. Why would he? Unless as a coach or player manager somewhere. Anywhere else would be a step down and salary reduction unless Everton continued to pay some of it? I can already see (not you) other posters on here getting itchy because we have not signed anyone yet and talking about 12 players in and 12 out. all I have been saying is that I expect 2 in and 2 out maybe? Yes kids we can get rid of because they have small contracts but our senior players are on tens of thousands a week. Why would they walk away from that and play in say the Championship for half the salary? No, I think we agreed too many high/ long term contracts with players we were panicking to buy over the last couple of windows. Our new manager has a tough job the way I see it. Hope that does not sound negative? I am trying to put a realistic spin on it with some sensible comments.

19 Jun 2018 18:35:41
There are players that want to leave for playing time. Kev wants to go on a reduced contract, Yanick has said playing football is the most important thing for him now after his injury. Not everyone is just out for money. Barry is another example. He went for less money.

Usually the players at the height of their careers accept they will need to take a pay cut. Some won't but not all.

I'm honestly not bothered if we don't sign one player as I think the current squad is still capable of jumping up a place. However, I want to see some of that exciting youth get a proper run in the side. Lookman, Dowell, Beni and I really like the look of Sammy and Hornby.

We'll see what happens but I'm excited Degsy. It won't be quick but it should be more interesting than the past 8 months. 😉🤞.

19 Jun 2018 19:38:00
Fair points made. I don't believe 12-13 first team players will leave in this window and I can see change coming over several windows (should give Silva the opportunity to separate the wheat from the chaff) . I certainly hope we don't lose the likes of Coleman or Lookman or we could be setting ourselves up for another season like the last one.

We need to get in some players to improve the squad, but surely Silva will get some of those people have labelled as dead wood playing again? Have to remember that the last two managers were pretty stubborn and stuck with the same starting 11 and tactics week in; week out - that can't be motivational to those guaranteed to play and those who never got a chance to play. A new approach will hopefully reignite the squad and we could see some of those players written off playing again. If we do sell, and let's hope its not because good players want to go, we sell because Silva has had a look at them and can't do anything with them to improve our team. All this naming of players who 'must' go seems a little rash in my opinion. Especially the younger players who haven't had much first team experience.

Here's for hoping guys and gals!

19 Jun 2018 19:41:30
Couldn’t we just pay the likes of Williams out of their contracts? He certainly won’t get a better offer anywhere else so I’d rather free up a place in the squad for someone who can still move.

20 Jun 2018 07:21:22
My original point seems to have got lost in the widening debate. Bluereason has got it. BJU has got it. There will undoubtedly be a couple of players leaving this window. But senior ones on large contracts will be difficult to move on. There is about 2 weeks left after the world cup so time is limited. We are trying to sign some players. The club have stated that players need to come off the wage bill before we sign others. That all means 12 or 13 players might leave over the next 3 or 4 transfer windows. but not this one. Therefore we might sign 12 or 13v players over the next 3 or 4 transfer windows. … but not this one. All I was saying is that people will need patience and to be realistic. This is not Aldi we are shopping in and giving away players to charity shops. It is much more complicated.

18 Jun 2018 17:41:54
On the performance of the Germain left back who we are ( suposed to be sighning) would prefer to stick with Baines, bring along Robinson, plus keep Mori, left footed, and can play left back or c/ back.
On the perfomance of the German guy, they above seems a much better options.

18 Jun 2018 18:54:58
I'm not sure if we are looking at him but judging him on one performance in the world cup seems very harsh. He might have had 34 outstanding games for Hertha but 1 dodgy game and he's pants?

Let's be a bit more patient.

18 Jun 2018 20:11:50
He’s very slow mate, watching him try to get back was not good. Reckon Bainsey would still do him in a sprint now.

18 Jun 2018 21:05:57
That's because Baines is fricken awesome! 😉😆.

19 Jun 2018 06:55:12
yes john! i wouldn't worry bout a left back we have baines and an understudy in robinson who had grizeman and co in his back pocket the other day. lb is covered if we keep robinson in the squad.

19 Jun 2018 09:47:16
have you guys not watched us the past year? don't worry about a left back? baines gets injured more and more each season! robinson suppose you could say be an understudy but we need to look at left back deffo, judging someone off one game is pathetic, off that game kimmich is awful too then?

18 Jun 2018 16:50:40
Watching Belgium v Panama and wondering, "where have I seen this tippy tappy going nowhere football before? "

18 Jun 2018 17:19:00
I’m going to start watching at about 89 minutes as that’s where we’ll see the goals start flying in.

18 Jun 2018 17:35:16
Lukaku 2 now. You can see what we are missing from 2 years ago. At least we have Tosun now, but Lukaku is so strong.

18 Jun 2018 18:59:40
He is Degsy and we missed him last season.

I honestly think Tosun can be better for us though.

He's less selfish, better 1st touch, good on the ball and supports his team mates so much more in both football and in confidence than Lukaku. I love the lad.

18 Jun 2018 21:22:16
Tosun's conversion rate is really good too. Will be interesting to see how he does with good service.

19 Jun 2018 09:56:27
cant wait for tosun to get off to a flyer then big sam gets on talk sport stealing all the praise for signing him.

19 Jun 2018 16:01:50
Well I know this will go down like a lead balloon, but Tosun and Walcott have been our best 2 signings in recent times. both whilst Allardyce was here! How much involvement he had I don't know, but he certainly had no involvement when we sold Lukaku and Barkley and signed 5 number 10's and no Left Midfielder nor Center Forward nor Center Half nor Left Back.

18 Jun 2018 15:40:45
Maddison signs for Leicester that's one down 83 more rumours still to contemplate.

18 Jun 2018 13:42:12
Everyone going on about Shaqiri, who in my opinion is another Mirallas with a bad attitude. Mentioning Lookman and Shaqiri on the wings. I just want to know, what has Walcott done wrong?

I thought he was one of our best players since he signed, always wanting the ball, always attempting to move it forward, quick skilful with a few goals thrown in.

This is why I think we can make do with what we have on the wing. Lookman and Walcott will do.

The priority for me is a CB and a LB, then if we can a CM.

18 Jun 2018 14:54:42
Fair shout Blue Tommy. Walcott could even go inside alongside Tosun? Either way, a squad needs more than 11 players these days. But I take your point. Walcott was a great signing under Allardyce. (that should get the pigeons fluttering)

18 Jun 2018 15:01:09
Don't think anyone is pushing Walcott down the starting line-up.
Shaq is twice the player Mirrales could ever be but I agree his attitude is a stinker

Lookman is still a baby so if anyone expects him to start 38 games, they should be pointed in the direction of the internet and be forced to read up on the game before embarrassing themselves with waffle and tosh.
He is going to be a star but he will be on the bench for large parts of the season. And frankly he should be buzzing with that. Do you think We only need 2 wingers for an entire season?

18 Jun 2018 15:24:30
Stay clear of Shaqiri lazy and bad attitude.

18 jun 2018 17:31:49
one good game in five, so thanks, but no thanks.

18 Jun 2018 18:51:23
My two original points were that nobody has mentioned Walcott as an option in the few posts below, and that I don't believe Shaqiri is the answer.

I wasn't suggesting that we have only 2 wingers all season, nor that Lookman can last a whole season (I do however believe he should be given a good run of games to see where he is development-wise) . I just think that this position is less of a priority than others. Bolasie can fill in and do a job when Lookman gets tired (obviously if we sell him we do need a replacement) and we have Vlasic, and even Dowell and Calvert Lewin can do a job out wide if necessary (although not ideal) .

It is going to take 3 or 4 transfer windows to fix us, so we need to look for replacements in the most problematic positions first (for me, CB and LB, followed by CM) . That's not to say that, hypothetically if a loan or transfer for a player like Rashford (who would solve cover out wide and up front) came up we shouldn't go for it, just that it's about prioritising.

18 Jun 2018 09:07:57
Well there's plenty of mention on here about who we should sign as we're watching the World Cup, but not much talk about one of the star performances of the competition so far - Gilfi Sigurdsson. He was outstanding against Argentina. Played the entire game just back from injury, looked the fittest guy there and his quality on the ball was exceptional. If we were to bid for a player of that caliber this window, we would have to add about another 20 mill to what we paid last summer for him.

What a player we have. Play him at number 10 please Marco. Don't waste him out on the wing.

18 Jun 2018 10:58:04
also give him the number ten when rooney gets off.

18 Jun 2018 12:29:35
100% agree ace. He was brilliant and how lucky we are.

18 Jun 2018 15:06:29
Yeah, he was unfairly treated last year. Wooney shouldn't have been given a look in over GS.
The poor guy has been treated appallingly by fans and coaches.

He is a class act and we really need to play to his strengths as has our big star player. World class.

19 Jun 2018 05:33:37
Good shout Toffee ace, he was all over the pitch, outstanding performance, looking forward to seeing him back in the blue shirt next season.

18 Jun 2018 08:04:30
I know this is a sort of repeat and I know I will get slated for saying this, but the wave of optimism that I see in fellow Blues worries me. We are right in the middle of a world cup and signing players is difficult to say the least. Usually when the world cup is on, all the Champions League qualifiers sort out their signings. Afterwards, all the players fall into place. Then the rest start scrambling around trying to pick up players who have not been taken up. Our own management have said we are already over staffed in the playing area and we need to offload a big number before we can add to it. Then there is the fact that Baines will be 34 and Jags 36 next season. We only improved last season when these 2 and Coleman returned to the team. So in effect our current position is that we have a worst squad than last season. (Williams is even more knackered now too) . The only difference to the first team in reality so far is the new manager. I really hope he can bring around a huge change but I saw no evidence at his previous clubs of him being able to make huge changes. I hope I am wrong and I hope the optimism is justified, but I for one do not think all our problems were down to Allardyce. I think the rot started under Martinez and the one signing of Lukaku "papered over" all the cracks. ie deficiencies within our squad. Maybe Barry also played a role, but since those 2 left, we have looked nothing like a team. and that's not just Allardyces fault. In fact the signing of Wallcott and Tosun were a good move. We will see what happens but I am not as confident as most on here. I hope I am wrong.

18 Jun 2018 08:38:16
You put it a lot better than me degsyp. Your comment is based on the same evidence on Mr Silva I worked on. But we shall see, I will certainly be ready to eat humble pie but equally I will not come on here and say I told you so. We are Everton. COYB.

18 Jun 2018 08:55:00
Degsy, I agree that those two are getting old and that we need to replace them but your level of pessimism is OTT.

Every manager will say that the hardest position to fill will be the striker but in Tosun I feel we have a real goal getter. With Gilfi fully utilised under the new management he will have some quality service too.

So replacing Jags and Baines, I don’t think is too hard. Remember as good a player they both are for us they weren’t exactly top players when we bought them, both coming from sides either relegated or flirting with relegation. So I don’t think the choices are that scarce. Plus we’re operating with a highly respected DOF who can spot talent and has a track record to prove it.

I must disagree with your opinion on the manager too. He has a very impressive record in the short time he has performed in the premier league. Hull were dead and buried when he arrived, and he had them playing up until the end when they narrowly missed out on relegation. Watford were very impressive too. Yes he had a bad run of games and was distracted. But he wanted to come to us. And let’s face it, Watford are tough employers, so I can see why he saw us as a step up even though we were in trouble.

If we keep Lookman and get a good second striker, a pacey one, then we will scare defences into mistakes and score goals. If we get a song out of Schneiderlin (as it looks like he will be kept according to reports) then we can get some stability in front of defence.

It may not be as bad as you think Degs. Replacing Jags and Baines will not be as hard as you think.

Remember that your use to Moyes who was more interested in clean sheets than goals. That was safe, but it won us nothing. I think the new manager will want to strike a balance between Moyes and Martinez. That means not so tight at the back but far more productive up top. So I’m actually very optimistic about the season ahead, even if the signings are slow coming so far.

COYB.

18 Jun 2018 09:06:10
I can't see us buying until we sell or loan a fair few amount of players. So you may have to wait a bit longer before we replace anyone. I don't think it will be a one out one in policy this transfer window after the public statements about the size of the squad. To be honest I'm not that bothered if we don't get many more players this window as long as we can trim the squad to the size required to be able to strengthen in the next few windows, I would be happy to give the youth a chance to prove they can do the job.

18 Jun 2018 09:13:21
240 million blown on mostly the no 10 spot, but here we are a dof that knows his job and has already said it's a long process, a new manager that has shown improvement in the teams he managed, I'm sure that a player or 2 will be added in areas we need them. Never bother with where linked to this player that player, our kid in a sweet shop approach last year has done nothing as people will force our hand to pay over the odds. Brands was brought in to fix this great club. If you actually look at our squad it has some exciting youth, they need a chance to shine as they won't get better sitting on a bench. But let's get all doom and gloom in 6 months if this turns sour. Not before a ball has been kicked.

18 Jun 2018 09:14:51
Like I said Toffee ace, I hope your optimism is indeed justified. I actually am a believer that the first thing you do in football is set your defence up to try and not concede. Then you look to build from there. I saw enough last season to know that without Jags and Baines, we conceded goal after goal and goal etc. Confidence left the team and at one stage we had the worst defence in the Premiership statistically. That was a recipe for relegation. Allardyce was very fortunate to come in just as Coleman, Jags and Baines recovered and managed to grind a few results out. I now worry that replacing Jags and Baines should be our number one priority. They will both be another year older and they were already slowing up. I also think signing players will be difficult as I said earlier. Please name me 2 players in Jags and Baines positions who will walk straight into our first team and hit the ground running. Realistic signings. otherwise, like I said we are at the position we were last season defensively. including Williams who is also another year older and slower (and that my friend is a frightening thought) . People say I am negative on here. …. I actually at times have been very positive. see my post about Shaqiri, Lookman and Siggy as an attacking midfield. It is defensively I am concerned. People seem to be overlooking that. Even with our defensive manager last season (ok he was only here part of the time) we conceded 58 goals. That's 2 more than bottom WBA. Only 5 teams below us conceded more. With Jags and Baines and Williams a year younger than they will be next season. We NEED a top left back and a top center back to keep pace with what we achieved last season. that is my fear. I see no sign of either player yet and whilst the world cup is on, that will not happen. So after the world cup, its fingers crossed time for me! Not waves of euphoria just yet I am afraid.

18 Jun 2018 12:21:16
Don't worry guys it's just Degsy copying and pasting his old posts again.

Anything new Degsy?

18 Jun 2018 12:42:27
Anything different on the pitch from last season yet BJU?

18 Jun 2018 15:08:00
We haven't had a training session never mind a game. However we have had a change of manager and pretty much every other role in the club so I was hoping you might have something new to talk about instead of the usual 2 million words of doom of the past 5 years.

Maybe not though.

18 Jun 2018 17:45:01
BJU please don't make it personal. I say Walcott great signing. I say Tosun great signing. I say Lookman one for the future. Siggy class act. None of that is negative. but I do point out that some others seem to wear Blue tinted glasses and just because Allardyce has gone they say everything is going in the right direction. Some posts listing 12 potential signings. Others saying about getting rid of 11 or 12 players. When I point out that some players are under contract and might want to stay. I am told I am negative. When I point out that there is a world cup on and signing a single player is unlikely never mind 11 or 12, I am called negative. When I say Pickford is a great shot stopper but poor with crosses I am called negative. When I suggest we should have signed Shaqiri I am called negative. When I point out that some fans might need a reality check. I am called negative. Football is all about opinions. because my opinion is a more realistic one (that some agree with as well as the ones who disagree) I am accused of being negative. so I am accusing those at the other end of the spectrum of being over optimistic. that's all. but no need to get personal mate. Don't be so negative lol!

18 Jun 2018 18:50:38
😁. I'm not being personal Degsy like I said to DFS I don't know you from Adam. I'm aiming everything at your post. Also not all of your posts. Just these repetitive ones. You honestly don't need to put it up every few days. We know how you feel and how difficult you think it's going to be. I reckon this is the 7th time you've put this same post up since Silva has been with us.

I actually don't think your Shaqiri shout is that bad but he is too similar to Kev with his attitude and Sam with his diet.

He used to get subbed minutes into the second half because he was knackered.

Have a read of Silvas phylosophy on how he wants his teams to play like and people like Shaq and Kev don't fit it. He wants the high press and intensity all over the pitch for 90 mins. 😉.

19 Jun 2018 05:39:50
There's just no point in worrying about what we will or won't do over the summer, the manager hasn't even got his feet under the table yet. Have a bit of positivity. I think we'll make a couple of good signings, i think Silva will be a great manager. We're going in the right direction, let's get behind the lads.

18 Jun 2018 06:40:28
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 18th June 2018