Everton Banter Archive December 15 2017

 

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15 Dec 2017 19:34:59
Am well impressed with Big Sam in his comments on the importance of Sammy Lee, especially on how vocal and passionate on the touchline he is and also his enthusiasm for the club, this is something we have not seen at Everton for a very long time, add to that Craig Shakespear up in the stands, and this for me is something that the club have really lacked with the last couple of managers we have had here, i can only see this present set up getting better and better and truly helping us to climb the league, hope Big Sam is given a good amount of cash for the January window, can only see Sam getting on well at Everton and hope it will be for the long term.

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15 Dec 2017 21:45:27
Fully agree mate.

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15 Dec 2017 23:16:19
Totally agree GuernseyBlue. There is plenty coming out now praising Sam. Where were these people before?

The only people on here I seen happy with big Sam and sticking up for him were you GuernseyBlue and Grumpytoffee. They may be more but very few.

I'm gobsmacked by the English view on British managers. I'm Irish and I stick up for them more than the English themselves.

Wasn't it lovely to see fancy Klopp losing it? The foreign manager coming in and thinking he's better than everyone. Big Sam gave him a rude awakening on the English premier league.

There are good British managers if they were just given a chance. Look at Burnley! Man City are flying high because Pep inherited big bucks. How would Pep do at Everton? Nothing like Sam is doing. That's a proper manager. Someone who doesn't need boat load's of money to improve a team.

Big Sam will continue the climb up the table. I have no doubt. 7th at worst come the end of the season. Who would of thought that a month ago?

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{Ed025's Note - i must admit that i was the biggest sceptic of the lot when sam was appointed NBTB, at the moment i am happily eating my words, and the organisation and attitude has been first class so humble pie is definitely on my menu mate, long may it continue..

16 Dec 2017 03:06:02
He certainly has done a good job so far and I like the way Big Sam talks about "we" and "us" when taking about Everton. Little Sam also seems to be totally committed to the club regardless of his Liverpool background. It is also good to see that Allardyce and Walsh apparently get on well together which is critical to our future recruitment.

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16 Dec 2017 03:17:56
NBTB feel free to look at my profile and banter post for 4th November.

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16 Dec 2017 06:04:10
I think the jury can't even go out on this yet. Even Samophobes would not question his ability to organise and plug leaks in the ship. So thus far he has done what everyone should have expected he could. What is in question is his ability to refit the ship and steer it in the direction that we would like it to go. Only a good deal more time will settle those doubt. In the meantime see what is being done and appreciate it for what it is.

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16 Dec 2017 08:17:51
Cheers folks we can sum it up in one word what is happening at Everton, PASSION we haven’t had that for a long time.

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16 Dec 2017 09:10:21
I agree with all that has been said except for the Pep bit. Since he came in, yes he has had a bit of money to spend but not particularly mega bucks when you compare what other clubs (us included) have spent. Yet the improvement on Man City has been nothing short of phenominal. All the pundits are saying the Man City team is playing the best football ever and the record of 15 successive wins (so far and still going) is staggering. I remember having debates on here about John Stones ability and how defenders should be able to play football and not just hoof it into row z. And without raking up old discussions/ arguments, I suggest that yes John Stones' defending has improved a bit. but the reason Man City have improved so much is that Pep has themplaying all the way through the team. Even the keeper (as is ours now) is capable of getting the ball under control and moving it to another player to draw the other team out of position. Our kids in youth football are not taught this in the main. They are taught to hoof it and it becomes habit. William is a classic example. I agree that sometimes it makes you very nervous as a fan. Sometimes it makes the player look poor (John Stones at Everton) . especially when other players are not "showing" for the ball. But watch Man City. every player wants that ball and every player is comfortable to retain it unless under the most extreme pressure. Maybe Kompany is not quite so good. but I can foresee Stones taking his place. This is the Spanish way. The Brazilian way. The French way. But as yet not totally the English way. but things are changing.

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16 Dec 2017 09:50:43
I have to say I didn't want Sam but then again I wanted Koeman, that aside I like what I see but, the litmus test for Sam will be getting us to keep hold of the ball in midfield and using the ball better without compromising the solid defence. This must be the next progression for the team and this is the big question mark over Allardyce that he has to this day not answered. However we will get behind him and I do hope he gets that balance, because if he does we are in for a really positive 18 months.

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16 Dec 2017 10:29:50
I take your point BeStryne. I did say there may be others but very few. You obviously fall into the very few category. Apologies the 2 I mentioned were the only 2 I could think of.

degsyp I don't take your point as you misunderstood mine. Your back with a bang. Stones seeing that you mentioned him was my favourite player while at Everton so you'll have no argument about him from me.

City have spent crazy money before Pep came in and spent more after. So Pep didn't inherit a squad like Big Sam did or RH at Crystal Palace. Granted they are doing the stuff at City. But as I said you missed my point.

How would Pep do at Everton? Or any team where he would have to build it up and get the best out of what is available?

There is nothing spared at City. What he wants he gets. Big Sam gave Klopp a good lesson on how to get a result with a team that was struggling against a team that was on top form.

Thats what big Sam does. He turns the tide and I'm delighted he's at Everton. He has the resources now to show what he can do. That's a luxury. A luxury Pep takes for granted as he got it in abundance everywhere he managed so far.

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16 Dec 2017 11:12:23
Same as that mate I was a Koeman fan and thought he was the dogs dangly bits, i hold my hands up, how wrong I was.

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15 Dec 2017 23:40:50
I also said i would eat that humble pie of his bare arse if he gets us into europe.
Just polishing my knife and fork as we speak 😂.

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{Ed025's Note - love it pauly..

16 Dec 2017 11:32:12
Sorry Guernsey. I guess you meant this post. obviously I had read it. Agree with you too NBTB. I must have missed your point. Yes Pep would definately struggle without loads of dosh and a squad that already had the basics there. but he has them at City playing total football. that's my point. Stones fits into that system because he is a good natural footballer. There were loads of comments on here a while back suggesting that there is a time and place for playing football and if you are under pressure, hoof it away. because Stones did not do this he was constantly criticised by many Evertonians. yes his positional sense has improved a bit. but he is basically the same player in a system of playing football. I will sum up with a comment in response. yes there is a time and a place for playing football. it is 90 minutes on the football pitch. but if you are not good enough . yes hoof it out. But I agree we are not good enough yet and accept that Big Sam will need to stabilise the club before he gets the better players in and turns us into a footballing team.

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16 Dec 2017 12:42:35
Sorry NBTB, wrote that late last night and reading back it looks a bit blunt hahaha, just pointing out how long ago I believed we needed SA and my thoughts on him.

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16 Dec 2017 13:22:39
No need to be sorry BeStryne. You weren't blunt at all. I'm just glad you value big Sam.

Good posts above. I like you GuernseyBlue hold my hands up. I wanted Koeman and I was wrong. That's why I respect Ed025 and Pauly above when the talk about humble pie. Love the post Pauly. We all eat the humble pie every so often. Whether we like it or not.

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16 Dec 2017 16:48:57
Some well written and thought out replies above.

Thank you for the mention as well NBTB.

The good thing with humble pie is we generally only ever eat it when something good is happening.

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17 Dec 2017 10:47:50
Hi Grumpy mate good post, we all know how to eat humble pie mate it's just we had forgotten how, it's been so long since something good has happened to the team.

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15 Dec 2017 19:27:39
I suppose as fans we treat the past how we want to see it.
Moyes was defensive but martinez was too attacking. Koeman didn't seem to know what he was doing.
At the end of the day, its a results business and big Sam wil will feel that 1-0 gets the same points as 4 or 5 nil.
I am still on the fence but leaning more to Sam side every game. We look tighter at the back and need to address the striker issue in January to have more of a threat going forward.
Hopefully 6 or 9 points over Christmas period and the garden will look a lot more rosey.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

16 Dec 2017 09:13:24
Hornets nest time? I think the football weplayed in Moyes' last season was breathtaking. We had Baines and Coleman both scoring for ease and setting up others almost every game. We were hammering bottom half teams with possession stats often up to 75%. so although he started off defensively with the team he inherited, my memories are of getting into Europe, into cup finals and semis and just wonder what Moyes would have done with Lukaku in his team?

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16 Dec 2017 12:05:34
He wouldn’t have signed him or Lukaku wouldn’t have. One or the other. Moyes for me was shackled by poor financial backing and I think this forged the type of manager he is now. But then with little money he did a brilliant job and we were always the team in the league punching above our weight.

Martinez joined us in great shape, but slowly lost his way with his gung ho brand of play.

Koeman had a good first season but something went wrong with recruitment and we all know what happened next.

Sam has done well by organising what Koeman couldn’t. So far so good. If he’s to have a successful time then it will be down to his relationship with Walsh and building on his solid defensive philosophy. Winning games 1-0 is fine for now but will the fans want more down the line.

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15 Dec 2017 08:08:54
Everton boss Sam Allardyce will not argue if the club decide to offload Ross Barkley, 24, in January, with the midfielder yet to sign a new contract. (Daily Mirror) . In know lot if people like him but he justvreminds me of a more attacking Jack Rodwell. Young English lad so he must be good, right? Wrong! Get a good price an ship him on.

Believable2 Unbelievable4

15 Dec 2017 08:40:53
And Roswell was rubbish too.

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15 Dec 2017 08:47:32
He was our 2nd highest scorer after Lukaku. so I think a bit better than Rodwell. with assists too. In reality I don't know if he will get over his injury? Does he want to sign a new deal? If there is any doubt on either of those questions. that is the reason to ship him on. Not for lack of ability. I think you are being harsh on him.

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15 Dec 2017 10:14:55
Typical, this attitude to our best young player is what's also driving them out of the club!

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15 Dec 2017 10:34:36
Having got this close to reaping the benefits of being a free agent Barkley would need to be insane to sign. He would be signing for someon who may or may not like him, public pronouncements should not be relied on. Even if this manager did rate him there is a strong chance that he will be gone a year into Barklays contract and he might find himself managed into oblivion by Koeman Mark 2.

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15 Dec 2017 11:18:01
wakka Barkley isn't our best young player anymore.

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15 Dec 2017 11:29:53
I feel the people who rate Barkley so highly are the people who were hurt most when Rooney left and they are desperately clinging on to another like him.

Reality is, Barkley is nowhere near the talent Rooney was and is in fact bang average.

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15 Dec 2017 11:56:56
I think he’s a good player. But not the player the media give him credit for. My biggest problem is that he’s hardly improved since he broke through. He was exciting when he came on the scene but was full of error too. Now usually this goes after a few years but with Barkley the errors are still there.

Anyway, this is all pointless as he’s def going.

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15 Dec 2017 12:18:38
Regardless of what's going on with his contract etc, on ability the lad is Raw. He's going to be a top player and I will hate to see him go. As I think he could be a big part in a team with other young blues.

Big miss for me.

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15 Dec 2017 12:31:53
My goodness. Give the (Evertonian) lad a break. and the supporters who are behind him. to say Rooney supporters follow him because he is one of us might be partly true but here are some facts: Yes he is an Evertonia. Yes he is still 24 so has potentially 10 more years or near about. Yes he was our most creative player under Martinez. Yes he was our 2nd highest scorer. Yes he suffered a terrible injury and recovered. Yes Tim Cahill saaid he was the most talented youngster he had ever worked with. Yes rumours are Chelsea and Spurs both want him. why on earth would we want to "get rid"? Yes if he does not sign a new deal and states he wants to go. but not for any other reason. Tell me which other youngster we can replace his talent with that wants to come to us and is within our budget? Come on Blues I know it hurts that maybe he wants to go but let's not doubt his ability. When he was playing we qualified for Europe and were 6th in the league. and we looked better than we do now going forwards. He may not be perfect. but assuming he recovers from this injury, I would love him to sign a new deal with us. Get back in the team. Then give us an additional attacking threat.

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15 Dec 2017 12:43:58
SA it was meant to say players as an overview, similar attitude to Stones now see what a difference a good coach has made to him. How long before people turn on Davies if his lack of form continues?
Barkley had issues with Koeman and it seems he was not the only one, I would like to see him work with Allardyce, but think he has made his mind up to go.

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15 Dec 2017 12:54:10
Yes Degsyp, all that’s fair enough, but he has rejected the contract extension and is running his current deal down. Fans in the main don’t like that especially if the player has come from the start of his career.

You’re asking for fans to show loyalty to the player but the reality is next season the fans will still be in the stands but Barkley won’t be in the team.

If fans get the ‘ump with him then they have my sympathy.

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15 Dec 2017 13:16:45
The fact you mentioned him being an Evertonian so he should get a break is part of the problem. He is the exact same player he was at 17 except he’s slower because of all the muscle he has put on.

I don’t buy into the whole he must be good or why else would Spurs and Chelsea want him.

Spurs wanted Janssen (and got him) and Barcelona wanted Glen Johnson, who the good teams want, doesn’t make them a good player.

The reason we should sell in January is because we could still get a good fee for him, he simply isn’t as good as Sigurdsson or Rooney and he won’t improve.

People go on about how Poch improves all these players, which is very overrated.

But let’s say he can; what can he improve about Ross Barkley, he’s going to be the same player his whole career, he can’t get into our midfield because he can’t defend to save his life so he’s not getting in ahead of Gana, he’s not reliable enough on the ball to keep it and he’s not good enough to get in ahead of Rooney or Sigurdsson, yes he’s quicker than them but he’s also lazier and can’t pass or shoot even close to the level of them.

He’s a one trick pony who has been found out, if he can’t glide past someone and then shoot outside the box then he has no impact on the game.

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15 Dec 2017 13:24:57
Wakka, Davies had has had a lack of form for a few games. Barkley's lack of form has lasted a few years.

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15 Dec 2017 14:34:05
Sometimes I think people read other posts and then comment on mine? Firstly, I never once mentioned I expect loyalty. Nor should get a break because he is Evertonian. Actually I rate him. But yes he has had bad injuries. Secondy, to say he can't get into the team because he can't defend is just wrong. He can't get into the team because he is injured. How do you know he would not be playing if he was fit? Like I said in my previous post. when he was fit he was our 2nd highest scorer and I will add was starting to play for England. I know that does not make him worlds best. and I do take points like he is not the quickest and his defending is not great. but will add that all the John Stones haters and ex player haters who say players have no future after leaving Everton should look at the football Man City have been playing and see the stats on John Stones (ok yes I know he has been injured 3 or 4 games) and see what he is doing. See what Rooney did post Everton. Just because a player leaves us don't think they suddenly become crap. although I would love that to be the case.

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15 Dec 2017 17:30:48
The major thing is we are already moaning that we have too many number 10s so another on in Barkley is going to be madness.
He may stay but then klassen (probably) would have to go but I feel Ross wants and needs to leave to progress.
Anyone with any sense would move from Everton to spurs or Chelsea (two of the best teams in the country) and receive a whopper signing on fee and wages, regardless of we had to sit on the bench.

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15 Dec 2017 18:15:41
Unfortunately geoffjohno, I suspect you are right. I also hear he has personal problems in Liverpool and a change of area and club might do him good. And yes we do have too many number 10's and I would rate Barkley in form as the best of our bunch. I guess it depends on how he recovers from his injury.

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15 Dec 2017 18:23:45
Like stones, Barkley is a decent player. Stones didn't fit our style of play and questions about whether Barkley could or not if Allardyce stays then I would have to say no. Who's place is he going to take? He's much better on the bench for Chelsea or Tottenham than for us. Let him go, let's get a few in january and we can all move on. Personally I thinker all miss him because of the way we were playing but when we are winning, what does he add to the squad apart from quality on the bench.

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15 Dec 2017 19:17:41
Heard about his issues degsy, I like him but his inconsistency and decision making was his downfall with fans. How we need someone who runs at defences the way he did but with more end product.
We all know he probably won't get in spurs side ahead of alli or Chelsea ahead of hazard but good luck to him if he goes.
I suppose at the end of the day the decision lies with him alone. He can run his contract down and leave for free in the summer to wherever he wants to.

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15 Dec 2017 17:22:51
But Stones has obvious talent and qualities, it was only people with an agenda who said he could never defend and was terrible. He was amazing in his first 2 seasons with us, it was the last season he struggled with so that’s not a good comparison because John Stones was obviously a special talent. As was Rooney, Ross was not.

I don’t know if Sam would pick him but I know he’s not as good as Gueye, Sigurdsson or Rooney at any of their jobs, that’s just clear.

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15 Dec 2017 22:50:47
Looks like that is what he is indeed doing Geoffjohno. But I would try and hold onto him if there was any chance. Even as a sub he gives something. And remember he is still quite inexperienced. He was out a long time in his younger days with a bad injury and although he had bad games at times he was still very inexperienced. Was it 2/ 3 seasons. that's not much for a young player. I can see him developing and maturing into a good footballer. Stones had loads of critics and look how he has matured. 23/ 24 is still very young after such a long time out. But I guess he won't sign anyway?

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15 Dec 2017 23:44:14
Replace him with Dowell.

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16 Dec 2017 09:16:48
Swan, I accept your view. but I think Barkley was a talent and hopefully will be again. even if not with us. But I would agree that he has underperformed if that is what you are saying? I think he has far more potential than he has shown. Particularly with consistency. He was very inconsistent. One minute a world beater, the next a dunce!

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15 Dec 2017 06:28:37
apologies my Maths was wrong we are not 1 point worse off we are on exactly the same as last year (22)

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15 Dec 2017 19:20:30
Do those stats compare if we played the same teams or just number of games?
I think expectations were so hugh start of season that we were all disappointed at where we were. As is usual in this league, apart from city atm, anyone can beat anyone else on their day and a few wins shoots you up and vice versa few defeats drops you down.

I'd take 1-0 wins all day long until we can find a system to play a bit more attractive.

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15 Dec 2017 06:25:51
I was bored yesterday and thought I would look at this perception that we haven't replaced Lukaku's ggoals this season.
we have in fact scored exactly the same amount (21) as last season at the same stage and Rooney has the same amount (9) as Lukaku had done. So all these so called expert pundits saying this really need to do some research before sharing their "expert" knowledge Oh and we are exactly 1 point worse off than last year at this time so maybe things are better than we realise.

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15 Dec 2017 08:49:35
things changed 5 games ago. Rooney has just started scoring for fun and we have started winning. People were saying this 5 games ago. I don't think anyone is saying it now?

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15 Dec 2017 08:56:16
Ok ToffeeAl point taken about the stats. But we haven't improved though have we. The league is getting more competitive and yet our playing got worse. 3 managers in 2 years a record for us. Yes, Alledyce has improved the teams performance. But saying that I'm comparing it to 4 months ago and let's be honest there. You couldn't get any worse. I know the players are settling down now and we have/ had quite a lot of injuries but the team was a shambles.

I watched the whole of the Newcastle game and honestly in quite a few parts of the game we got the luck. I'm still shocked why we aren't using Lookman and Sandro. Sandro I think hasn't had a fair crack at the whip.

He came with a lot of pressure round his neck to score goals and the rest of the team hasn't helped him in anyway shape or form. When Kenny fed him that brilliant through ball he delivered. I think his moral and confidence is mega down. He upshipped from his home to move to disaster town. We sold him the Hilton and he got Butlins.

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15 Dec 2017 12:35:50
Mowfee I think we had too many changes going on at once earlier on. Sandro, Lookman, Klaasen etc in and out the team. 4-4-2 one week.5-3-1-1 the next. teams need to settle. Last 5 games have been the same (roughly) team. Unsworth started and Allardyce continued with a winning team.

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15 Dec 2017 12:36:42
my point was that it isn't the goals that were missing it was the quality in the defensive third and now we have improved in that area there's no reason not to believe we can repeat last season which I think was a goal for this season before we kicked a ball, albiet a minimum goal.

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15 Dec 2017 12:41:56
oh and I wasn't talking about anyone on here when mentioning the so called experts I was referencing the many pundits on TV (Danny Murphy for example) that couldn't wait to stick the boot in, who conveniently forgot the tough start we had .

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15 Dec 2017 16:14:50
Ok point taken ToffeeAL. I would agree that 5 games ago we were terrible defensively and have improved no end in that dept. Coincidentally, Rooney has just started to look like he is enjoying playing again and is banging the goals. but other than him, we don't have goals coming in abundance. let's see if we sign anyone in Jan. Rooney is currently midfield and scoring and Calvert Lewin working his socks off. but lacks strength and maturity. he will become a fine footballer but too much is on his young shoulders at the mo. I would do without any Christmas Presents to get a Giroud or similar.

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