Everton Banter Archive December 10 2016

 

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10 Dec 2016 23:00:27
The problem with our club is it's full of prima donnas, including the manager. He spouts rubbish about not using Everton as a stepping stone to managing Barca. The tit can't even do a better job than Martinez! And the board are a joke, how many people slated me when I said all we did was spend the Stones money? How much closer are we to a new stadium? Promises, promises the same was said to Blackburn fans.

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{Ed025's Note - and i thought i was a bit harsh at times duaney.. :)

10 Dec 2016 23:16:29
Hi Ed again, what a load of garbage, GuernseyBlue.

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{Ed025's Note - its all about opinions GB and even though i dont agree i can see how disappointed a lot of fans are mate..

11 Dec 2016 09:54:39
The manager should be judged at the end of the season. Look at Liverpool last season and look at them now. Let's give home some time and slate him when he has had a chance to change things.
We are still in the top half of the table despite the bad run.
If we can get a result against any of the next two teams imagine how the mood would lift.

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{Ed025's Note - i will have that smit, my only concern would be a humiliation at the hands of what are 2 of the best attacking sides in the prem causing such a lack of confidence that recovery could seem impossible mate..

11 Dec 2016 12:25:19
Well let's see what happens first. We all know things can turn quickly in football.

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10 Dec 2016 22:54:25
Of our aged-over-21 players, I can imagine the two currently out on loan (Garbutt and McGeady) and the two omitted from our squad (McAleny and Rodriguez) leaving permanently in January - and certainly in the Summer.
Of the 25 aged-over-21 players currently in our registered Premier League squad, I can imagine four if them - Gibson, Kone, Niasse and Oviedo - leaving permanently in January, especially as they're not regular starters/ subs for us and we need their squad spaces for new players.
If we get decent offers for any of the others (e. g. McCarthy) in January - and can get replacements -then they could move also. Come the Summer, then I expect the entire squad (bar the likes of Gueye) to be "available" if decent offers come in and we have good replacements.
I'd also expect a fair few of our U23/ U18 players to leave the club next Summer.
By the end of next Summer's transfer window, I envisage the club's playing roster to have significantly changed.

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10 Dec 2016 22:50:01
Degsy continuing your Mirallas debate. What you think of him today? Imho he was nonexistent. Typical Mirallas either spectacular or extremely quiet.

Not that Del had a particularly good game but he was the only one who looked like creating something. At times he can be lazy but he was doing sprints and skipping by players the whole game. Don't think his fitness is as bad as made out by some people.

Valencia deserves a start next game.

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10 Dec 2016 23:58:43
Dels fitness wasnt bad today NBTB but that's because he didn't do much in tracking back so was getting a breather at times.
Both 'wingers' today and especially in the 1st half did not offer any threat and little protection for the fullbacks.
Del came to life when we reverted to a midfield 4 and that's the way it should have been from the start.

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11 Dec 2016 08:47:15
NBTB I thought the manager got it completely wrong yesterday. I do understand when he says we need to play a high pressing game with intensity. and I agree with him on that. But then look at the team he picked and it's natural formation and that team is not capable of playing the high pressing and intensity that he wants. Let me explain. His back 4 was the traditional back 4 of 2 center backs and 2 full backs. Just in front of them is 3 midfielders. 2 of which very rairly run with the ball or play a through ball to get wingers involved (Barry and McCarthy) . In fact their "natural" game is to support the defense and drop back and tackle and foul as necessary. The 3rd midfielder (Gana) does sometimes run with the ball and try a pass. but again he sits back when the opposition have the ball until they try and pass through and he steps out and quite often wins the ball. All this time, Lukaku is stood on the half way line waiting for us to break. and when we do. as yesterday. we launch it long to him and he loses possession so we drop back again. The 2 wingers are effectively not involved. I noticed that Mirallas then started to wonder around the pitch trying to get involved but was usually following the ball. Del boy too to some degree. This formation and way of playing also restricts the full backs from linking with the wingers, so overlapping stops. It invites the opposition to press us and inevitably we end up defending for large periods of the game (as happened) . With 10 mins to go, he took Mirallas and Gana off (he could have taken anyone off) and we started pressing and the game became more open. Their goals were 2 from set pieces and a good goal. The set pieces were from fouls on the edge of the box. well if you play 80 minutes and 60 of them are defending. you will give fouls away. Add into that the height of Baines, Gana, Del Boy and the poor heading ability of McCarthy and Mirallas. andonly half your team is capable of defending those free kicks against a muscular lump of a team like Watford. To be honest, I think we are still lacking the creative midfielders needed in this league. I have said a 1000 times that Pienaar and Osman were never replaced. We could have signed Shakiri at Stoke when they got him. We could have even tried Tom Davies yesterday. Or even put Coleman in midfield and brought Holgate in. But the 4:3:2:1 formaation does not work with the players we have. Any wingers are really wasted in it. Having said all that, yes Mirallas was poor.

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{Ed025's Note - i was really enjoying that post degsy for the first 70%, then you have to mention osman and pienaar again and your credibility flew right out of the window mate..we get it that you liked these guys but they dont have to be mentioned in every post as an "i told you so" statement, we need to move on from the past and concentrate on the future..even though it looks bleak at the moment..

11 Dec 2016 09:35:08
I don't understand the obsession with our wingers tracking back. Surely the point of playing a back six including the two DMs is that they don't have to, albeit that should mean that they focus solely on creating opportunities going forward, which they're not doing either.

I would go with one DM (Gana) and start Valencia in a front two, which would require the wingers to track back more, but would also give them more options in the box when they do get forward.

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11 Dec 2016 10:27:03
Ed its not the Osman and Pienaar thing I am on about. Its the type of player they were. All the midfielders we have since signed are basically either stoppers or high energy players. eg Cleverly must run and run for miles and miles. McCarthy too. And Barry. But you will rarely see any of them be in a position where they are the most forward of players receiving the ball facing their own goal, holding up play to allow the full back to overlap. Likewise they don't get the little triangles of passing going that creates the space for the winger. When did you last see any of our wingers or full backs have a really good game? I would say 4 years ago. that's my point! Sorry to have mentioned the two players and I know I have gone over old stuff, but my poit is we need Shakiri, Payet, Mahrez or some other link player if we are to play a high tempo pressing game.

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{Ed025's Note - you just cant help yourself can you degsy..lol..

11 Dec 2016 17:15:01
Only after seeing your posts there now Degsy.

Emmmm, I only asked what you thought of Mirallas. No real need to go into a big match analysis. Even if you were trying to point out the game tactics didn't suit him.

As for the other 2 players you mentioned. I idolised them as much as anyone but they won't be known much outside Everton Degsy. They were fantastic for us but they were not world renowned players.

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11 Dec 2016 19:41:28
Windsor its not a case of tracking back as such its a case of defending from the front so closing down in your area of the field.
If done properly defenders revert to long balls or mistakes.
Kev does it at times, Del doesn't he stands with his hands on his hips or moaning when a decision doesn't go his way.
Lukaku was even covering ground and tracking back yesterday.

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10 Dec 2016 18:16:56
Sorry guys, but 55 years an Evertonian so please don't question my love or loyalty to the team. However, after RM left and all the debate about the next manager was going on, personally, I wouldn't have minded Sean Dyche, Eddie Howe or even (deep breath because I'm even going public with this! ) , Rafa Benitez! When RK was appointed I was a bit underwhelmed. Obviously I was going to support him and wish him well. However, he always struck me as a manager who would not inspire a team, he's a bit dour &, to be frank, hasn't achieved a lot in the game. I much prefer a Conte style of manager and one that connects with the fans. IMO RK hasn't done either. It's way too early to start thinking of changing managers, but, I can't remember for an awful long time when I've felt as negative about my team. Apologies once again, but I'm just saying things as I see them.

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10 Dec 2016 18:52:13
I still think he is far better than Martinez as a Manager. Martinez is a coach and needs direction, that is his weakness. Ronald Koeman is a good Manager and normally has good coaches around him, I do not doubt he will get it right. He said at the beginning he needed time, he could not say as we all know that this Squad is simply not good enough and they are not the players he would have chosen. The two centre backs are at this level to old, Williams has not turned out to be the leader we all hoped he would, Funes needs to bring his International form into our Squad and Jags unfortunately is simply out of form. Our two fullbacks as the Echo quite rightly points out and many on these forums have pointed out are first and foremost wing backs than defenders, Bainsey has never been solid in defence and Coleman likewise, they are flank players and as such should play in a 5 man defence or 5 man midfield. I like the choice of Benitez and I think you would be surprised how much support there was out here for him.

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10 Dec 2016 21:14:58
I wasn't overly impressed by the appointment of Koeman as manager either but was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. The first five or six games gave me a good feeling of confidence that we had the right man for the job. Since then my doubts have resurfaced, mainly because a see exactly the same failing with Koeman as a saw with Martinez and that is a rigid belief that their method of play is the only one that can be used. Neither were/ are willing to bend, the same old problems continue with each game. My question to each of them would be "If you continue with the same old rubbish game after game how can you expect the outcome to smell any better"?
Hopefully we can get some new players in come January but Koeman has to use what he has available until then and also continue to use the majority until the Summer. If he can't come up with some answers to stop this slide I fear that we will be fighting relegation. He has to inspire the players we have and also use some of the youngsters and at the moment he seems unable to do bring himself to do either.

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10 Dec 2016 22:01:17
Ed. LOL. What is wrong with "sheep" and why replace it with "star trek"?

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10 Dec 2016 22:01:17
Ed. LOL. What is wrong with "s***" and why replace it with "rubbish"? rubbish is rubbish and that's what we are getting dished up at this time. Love to see how this message is corrected.

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{Ed025's Note - we do have a lot of young viewers mike and swearing is not really big or clever...a bit like our team mate..

10 Dec 2016 22:59:57
RK gave an honest assessment after the game which I totally agree with, I get a feeling all is not well with the squad, too many of the old guard are completely out of form, some newer players are just not good enough!
Whatever he is the gaffer and they need to adapt or go, simple as, I'm totally frustrated watching all these high earners just not putting a shift in!
Perhaps sit them in the changing room and watch dvds of the eighties side if they want to see passion, commitment and skill!
I've said it several times this squad needs a complete rebuild!
Jags, baines, Coleman, are shadows of there former selves, Del Boy, mirallas and Lennon no more than squad / bench.
CB a must in Jan with GK, wingers, CAM and striker that's a big shopping list BK / MF.

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10 Dec 2016 21:43:06
Koemans the coach and team picker, he needs the right players to build a team in his mould. My veiws may change in 12 months but give him a chance.

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11 Dec 2016 01:09:02
OK sorry I though it was quite tame really, not actually a swear word. It actually comes from the sign "Ship High In Transit" when shipping manure since it gave off methane which was liable to explode if under deck.

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{Ed033's Note - rubbish, :)

10 Dec 2016 16:38:27
I do wonder if we signed the wrong Swansea player. Siggordson has been imense for 3 or 4 seasons now and creates all sorts of havoc in opposing areas. Scores goals and makes assists.

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10 Dec 2016 23:00:26
Apparently we were interested he was'nt.

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10 Dec 2016 16:27:26
Couldn't get to the game today, far too much going on in the Hunt family due to the time of year so ended up listening to the game on local radio.
In the end of match phone in it was suggested Koeman worked better with Sammy Lee who has just been released by England.
I've never met him but apart from his obvious links to that shower from across the park he's supposed to be a really nice bloke and a top coach.
Would anyone accept him at Everton if it was ever mooted?

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10 Dec 2016 18:33:06
I would welcome Sammy Lee BG, I don't care who they played for or what team they support as long as they do a good job, I think he is a very good coach and would like him to be part of our back room staff.

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10 Dec 2016 15:27:13
I have been a defender of RK but today I can't defend that the starting formation was wrong and we played right into the hands of Watford.
I do feel that maybe something is not right behind the scenes and the prima Donna's don't like a disciplinarian and that's reflecting on the pitch.

Surely now Holgate deserves a chance at the back and as much as his experience is good it's time to drop Barry and play with Ross next to Gueye with Kev and Geri on the flanks in a 4 man midfield with Valencia supporting Rom.
It's clearly not working what the manager is doing and it's his job to fix it.

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10 Dec 2016 15:54:29
just seen a picture of the everton players in the dressing room . every one of them on there mobile phones. no team spirit there then.

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10 Dec 2016 17:47:25
I agree with a lot there Bluegray. The best we have looked in the last couple of months was last week with Valencia on the pitch in a 442. This week we end up with 3 defensive midfielders.

To be honest though for me these players are not good enough. Not quality wise but in attitude. These are quality players but only 5 or 6 turn up each week.

I'm not one for knee jerk reactions and signing loads of players but I do think we need 4 or 5 QUALITY players both mentally and ability is needed.

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10 Dec 2016 17:55:18
First time in my memory, my son phoned during the match and said Dad they are playing rubbish. I commented at the beginning of the season after 5 or 6 games and said we had not played anyone yet, oh how I wish I was wrong in my suspicions. I said recently we needed to improve and quickly otherwise we would not be able to attract our first choices (whoever they may be) in the January Window. I still believe Koeman is far better than Martinez but by heck only 15 games in and we are looking more like bottom fighting to stay up rather than top fighting for Europe.

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10 Dec 2016 18:34:33
Said after the West Ham game that we were very average, and that the best we would finish would be 12th to 14th. Still haven't seen anything to change my mind sadly.

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10 Dec 2016 18:54:40
Don't normally listen to what Psycho Pearce has to say but he is right, Evertons level without a huge injection of cash solely into the Team is always around 8th anything above that can be considered a success.

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11 Dec 2016 08:22:38
And conversely, below that is failure.

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10 Dec 2016 15:08:40
New poster here so go easy on me! Go to about 3 or 4 games a season and by no means an expert or as knowledgable as some but here goes; Koeman's interview he says his team are passive. Really? So sitting on your arse in the dugout the whole game, arms folded muttering to yourself and looking disinterested isn't passive? He needs to get on the touch line screaming and directing the dross he's selected, kicking and heading every ball and show us fans he's got passion and that may translate to the pitch. It's time to drop Barry I'm afraid, you can't build a young hungry team around him, he slows everything down. Coleman needs benching for Holgate and it's time to call on 3 or 4 of the under 23's to replace the likes of Cleverly, McCarthy, Mirrallas, the gulf between them and the first team and under 23's can't be as huge as we're told it is. 5 or 6 of those starters out there today are simply not good enough. Williams has started to worry me too. I could go on but it's my first post so I'll stop before I need to check my blood pressure and gaskets.

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10 Dec 2016 15:27:52
You have some valid points mate. But we are all emotional at the moment and over reactions is not what is needed. The fact he sits and watches is not the problem. But some of your other points are worth noting.

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10 Dec 2016 16:21:06
Good points newcomer. We ave some players turning up for a few games a season. Thought they plsyed well in the middle with little in the final third. Back to the martinez defending today, as for them using mobiles in the dressing room they should be bsnned.

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10 Dec 2016 23:05:54
Don't forget at the time we went 1-0 up we were in complete control, however as normal at that point we took our foot of the pedal and coasted, but once they got one they could see we were rocking and they went for the kill!
Our reaction as last week was to chase the game late on in fact to late! This is RK's criticism out us being reactive not proactive!
A lack of a real winner or leader in our ranks, even Williams had a horror game today!

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{Ed025's Note - williams did stink the house out mate..

10 Dec 2016 15:03:32
Hi Ed I have to agree with R K in SNN the confidence in the players is at a zero the game lasts for 90 minutes not 20,he had the same at Southampton and their next game was the Gooners and they beat them, let's hope the same happens again, let's get behind them and hope we have a good transfer window, it can't come quick enough, GuernseyBlu.

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10 Dec 2016 14:29:00
Well I am sure I won't be the only one on here moaning. But I have to say that after Koeman arrived and Steve Walsh, I thought we would be in a better position. The selection of 3 defensive midfielders and 2 wingers for me is just plain wrong. They were isolated just as I predicted before the game. If you don't have a midfielder who is comfortable getting the ball to them, they will either be isolated or have to keep dropping deeper to get it. Lukaku showed his usual positives and negatives. ie 2 goals and giving the ball away numerous times. We are now in free fall and the "r" word is at the baack of my mind. not because of results. but because of our fixture list and the very poor performances with strange team selections.

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10 Dec 2016 14:59:53
Come on Degsy,

SW signed 1 week before close of last transfer window and you are already blaming him. RK had realistically a 2 week transfer window due to the Euros.

Before This much negativity against them at least give them time to implement what it is they want. We are a club renowned for giving our managers and staff time to establish themselves so why not these two?

We are not really in free fall if we were we would not of got the point against Utd and protected our 10 home game run without a defeat or does that not count?

I was chosen to support Everton in the early 60's and believe me I can understand your frustrations at how we played today, we were AWFUL. But like every other chosen supporter I know we will get better. Most people on this forum agreed it will take more than a season to fix some of the problems we are having and fortunately so far there has only been you mentioning relegation, we are 10th, I would be happy for us to finish in this position.

RK has said all along he does not have the players he needs so should he bury his head in the sand and start crying of the "r" word? The more I read your post the angrier I am becoming, I have never doubted any chosen supporters allegiance to Everton but that post Degsy is bringing me very close to asking you.

I am not bothering to post any more this weekend because I don't really want to say anything at the heat of the moment, but Degsy your post and the "r" thing has really angered me.

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10 Dec 2016 15:12:25
I said on here after 5 games for us not to get carried away and to wait until about 15 games in to judge. Well here we are, and I was right. We are just as average under Koeman than under Martinez.

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10 Dec 2016 15:16:19
Hi Grumpytoffee I agree with you all the way mate, we always get this type of post after we lose, let's get a few players in over the transfer window and then see, at the end of the day most of them have been inherited from the previous Manager and need moving on, far too early for this knee jerk reaction, GuernseyBlue.

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10 Dec 2016 15:21:08
Finally someone with sense. Agree wholeheartedly Grumpy. Very good post.

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10 Dec 2016 15:29:06
I don't think the r word will come to play degsy and we all knew it was going to be a painful transition but the team seem stuck in two mindsets. Ronnie way and the martinez way. needs sorting asap.
Also don't understand why ronnie won't start as a 442. We look so much better.

Think January needs to come asap and we get some much needed reinforcements.

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10 Dec 2016 15:36:41
I think my post has come over differently than how it was meant. Looking at the replies I assume you think I am blaming Walsh and Koeman? Far from it. I am blaming Martinez. as I did all the way through his time. He let an ageing squad get even older and the youngsters he signed (Lukaku excepted) are clearly not good enough. I do blame Koeman for his team selection today. We were playing a team who let's say are not the best. but until about the 70th minute we had 2 wingers on the pitch who just did not get involved. When I saw the team selection, I said at the time, "who is going to feed Mirallas and Deulofeu? " Because out of Barry, McCarthy and Gana, I don't see many passes down the wings for them to feed off. As for the free fall statement we have not won a game for 10 matches and our next 2 are Arsenal and you know who. I hope (but can't see) we win one of those. But no I am not blaming Koeman and definately not blaming Walsh for the length of our winless streak.

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10 Dec 2016 15:47:40
Judge them after 3 windows. That's how many it will take to replace a declining team.

Jags. Not the player he was
Baines. Not the player he was
McCarthy. Only gave us one good season
Barry. Not the player he was

Even if in one window we replaced these players it would take the rest of the season to get them to gel.

Before we start looking at Koeman and saying he's no better than Martinez we need to remember that Martinez would say that that performance was phenomenal and just carry on with his stubborn tactics that lose games. When confidence was low he would do nothing to change. Koeman is honest. He sees what we see and says what is needed to say. That guy will get us going. Give him 3 windows. Give Walsh the same and let's see if after that we have the players and performances that these 2 football men have proven they can bring.

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10 Dec 2016 15:56:11
Ditto mate good post, GuernseyBlue.

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10 Dec 2016 16:03:33
I am with you mate. Like I said. I am only critical of Koeman's team selection today. but we are in free fall at the moment. No wins in 10 is not exactly climbing the table. We need to halt it. I feel we are too defensive. I would give Holgate a game too. Iam not sure Baines is past it as some say. I think the tactics don't suit him. Barry is though and although his pass created the first goal, he offers little going forwards these days and we have Gana as the holding mid. I have never been a McCarthy fan.

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10 Dec 2016 18:59:02
I agree with posts on Koeman, I do like the guy but this is not his Team. People are right, he was the one we wanted so had to be patient so realistically he did only have a very short Transfer Window and Steve Walsh no time at all. The only problem with January is attracting the first choice players you want when you are struggling in the league, we will have to pay top wack on transfer and wages.

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{Ed025's Note - we certainly will BCT..

10 Dec 2016 14:25:37
Discusting is all i have to say they do not play for the club an all the people who blame lukaku he done is job the team is very poor they way its looking i can't see were are next win is coming from plus the system needs changing badly 2 up top is needed.

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10 Dec 2016 15:07:37
when valencia gets his usual 10 mins we are a different team up front, it shows it needs 2 up front.

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10 Dec 2016 14:14:23
Got to question the team selection and formation today.
We looked a much better organised side with 442 last week and get this week against a side who like to spread the play and use the flanks we play 433 which leaves us narrow and lacking cover for the flanks.
Is this a mini crisis or is there a more deeper rooted problem behind the scenes.
1 win in 10 with the next 2 games against Arsenal and Liverpool.

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10 Dec 2016 13:56:09
We are defending like we did under martinez in all honesty most of our players are done or just not good enough.

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10 Dec 2016 15:32:43
Martinez ruined our club and putting things right seems to much for Koeman, he must go before January window. We need a British manager who can rebuild the club, foriegn managers cannot do the type of job that Everton need.

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10 Dec 2016 19:04:42
What a load of tosh RM did not ruin our club. These bunch of overpaid tosses who pull on the shirt and don't give a damp are the culpritss
This so called team is an absolute disgrace and they are all a bunch of cheats who are bringing this great club down.

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10 Dec 2016 13:55:06
Dare I mention the "R" word?

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10 Dec 2016 15:22:46
Honestly didn't know what the 'r' word was until Grumpy pointed it out above.

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10 Dec 2016 13:53:45
Read my post below about 2 wingers and 3 defensive midfielders that I put on before the game. Having said that we have now put a creative midfielder on. when we are 3 1 down!

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10 Dec 2016 12:16:20
Whats a good site to watch the match guys? I have used ronaldo.7 but not always that good.

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10 Dec 2016 13:08:33
There is the Lukaku arguement in a nutshell. Scores a great goal.15 minutes later gives away possession with a sloppy pass. Watford break and score.

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10 Dec 2016 13:52:58
Lukaku is not the problem Degsy, the problem with the goal was poor defense from Williams. The problem with this team is that we have no creative midfielder and so no balance. In addition our two center backs who are playing and one on the bench who are not good enough. Koeman does not appear to have any idea how to fix the problems with the team. Why play McCarthy, a player supposedly with no future at the club when we have a talent like Davies who can't even get on the bench? Holgate is good enough to play center-half and Davies is good enough to play in central midfield. I don't give a damn what Koeman sees in training, all that matters is what happens in proper matches and the teams Koeman puts out are crap.

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10 Dec 2016 14:10:47
I agree with all you say mate. Look at my other posts today. Mainly about lack of creative midfielder. Add that to Lukaku's inability to get involved and 2 isolated wingers. Davies should have been on from the start and now we are in free fall.

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10 Dec 2016 12:48:46
I take it back. What a pass from Barry. Did he mean it?

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{Ed025's Note - yes..

10 Dec 2016 12:48:32
Hi Ed, I have to say I agree with R Ks selection today, I think maybe it's last chance saloon for some of these players ie J Mc and Gerri, I don't understand why some fans are slating R Ks decision nor to play Ross he is clearly not up to his standards, he has played 12 games has 2 goals and 1 assist, but has created 30 chances, so COYBs 3 points today please and then see some action in the transfer window, cheers GuernseyBlue.

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{Ed025's Note - im desperate for ross to do well GB but is he really good enough?.. i would have to say no at the moment mate..

10 Dec 2016 15:32:35
It's time to put sentiment aside. Ross is not good enough for a top 6 side and never will be.

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10 Dec 2016 12:45:13
I have to say I don't understand the team of 2 wingers and 3 defensive midfielders? Surely this is where we need a creative midfielder to supply the 2 wingers. They will probably get as isolated as Lukaku.

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10 Dec 2016 11:43:08
Barkley on the bench again nice to see Deulofeu get a start.

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10 Dec 2016
The real time live chat page is open for today's Everton match at the below link for you to talk to each other during the match
Everton Live Chat page

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10 Dec 2016 06:14:26
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Weekend Premier League Preview

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